Question for the CCL League

[Smudge]

Is it your ambition to restore the Premier League to 22 teams in season 15/16?

 

I do know that it is out of your hands regards the F.A. Redirecting Clubs to the CCL as has happened on previous occassions,but it would be nice to know your plans.

[Chris Clapham]

Smudge.

There was a note in this week's bulletin stating that 22 clubs is the preferred option.

[Smudge]

Thanks Chris,only preferred ? Can they not state it is WHAT THEY WANT.Could make a big difference in how many teams get relegated.

[Chris Clapham]

PROMOTION & RELEGATION – A PERSONAL VIEW

 

As is always the case at this time of the season, questions are being asked about possible promotion and relegation at the end of the season.

 

In terms of numbers, we will not be able to state anything with certainty until the season is well and truly over and the Leagues Committee of the Football Association have made their recommendations as to which league promoted and relegated clubs should be allocated. We are probably looking towards the end of May.

 

All we can state with reasonable certainty at the moment is that our champion club will be promoted to Step 4, be it the Ryman or the Evostick (Southern) League. Whether any clubs will be relegated in the opposite direction from Step 4 to the CCL is entirely a matter for the FA. A look at those relevant Step 4 divisions shows that there are a number of clubs in relegation places who are certainly within our catchment area, including former members North Greenford United, but we will have to wait and see. Once again there will be reprieves at Step 4, due to several clubs folding this season, not least Hereford and Salisbury, which is disappointing but hopefully none of our clubs this season will be involved in simply bolstering numbers in the Southern Counties East (ex-Kent) League, as they now have enough. That said, all clubs have been told by the FA that they can be moved laterally even if you are not being promoted or relegated. If you remember, three clubs were relegated to us last year but then two existing clubs, Croydon and Wembley, were moved sideways, so with one being promoted, South Park, there was no net gain in the end.

 

One thing that is as certain is that whoever finishes at the bottom of our Premier Division will be relegated, as that provision is now written into the regulations. That said, all those clubs who finish in our bottom three must expect to be relegated. If you get a lucky break and receive a reprieve for whatever reason, then fine, but there can be no complaints about being relegated if you finish in the bottom three.

 

The next factor to consider is how many of the three clubs at the top of Division One can be promoted. For that to happen, the club(s) concerned must have satisfied the requirements of Grade G and clearly one or more of the clubs in or around the top three at the moment do not do so That in turn will limit the number of clubs to be promoted from Division One. If you finish outside the top three in Division One, you cannot be promoted.

 

In accordance with Rule 13.4.ix no club will be relegated from Division One at the end of this season as we do not currently have 18 clubs in that Division. We are hoping that Division One will be bolstered by at least two new clubs next season as we need them desperately.

 

Finally, the Management Committee has to decide how many clubs should compete in the Premier Division next season. In my view there is strength in numbers and I am personally keen that we should revert to 22, rather than go down to 20. In the longer run, this helps in Division One and we have, after all, had 24 in the Premier Division in the past. I am aware of the opposite view and there are, of course, arguments both ways but hopefully everyone would agree that we need an even number, certainly from a fixture point of view. 

[Smudge]

Interesting point about Division 1 promotion ongoing in future seasons.This needs a rule change surely,no disrespect to Farleigh Rovers or Worcester Park,who currently have 2 decent sides at present,but this could be seen as blocking others with the required grade,ever getting promotion.Not cheap running a side at this level,and the aim of any Club,is promotion.A few months back the League vented the idea of getting in Ryman Reserve sides into Div 1,to make the numbers up.With the proviso that they would not affect Promotion,so surely this must be the way forward,that if you finish in the top 5,you would get promoted,if 2 teams that do not have the grade finish in the top 5.Be nice if Worcester Park who cannot now win  Div 1,had a relapse in form,4th place is not bad after all

[thevoiceofreason]

Interesting point about Division 1 promotion ongoing in future seasons.This needs a rule change surely,no disrespect to Farleigh Rovers or Worcester Park,who currently have 2 decent sides at present,but this could be seen as blocking others with the required grade,ever getting promotion.Not cheap running a side at this level,and the aim of any Club,is promotion.A few months back the League vented the idea of getting in Ryman Reserve sides into Div 1,to make the numbers up.With the proviso that they would not affect Promotion,so surely this must be the way forward,that if you finish in the top 5,you would get promoted,if 2 teams that do not have the grade finish in the top 5.Be nice if Worcester Park who cannot now win  Div 1,had a relapse in form,4th place is not bad after all

Worcester Park can't AFFORD to have a lapse in form, now you've said that. There are conspiracy theorists lurking under every stone!

 

Top five for consideration seems reasonable... BUT anything increasing the possibility of whipping boys ending up out of their depth is, I suppose the down side of that.

[ellers]

I disagree if you can't finish in the top 3 why should you go up??

[lazarus]

There is nothing to stop any member club proposing a rule change whereby the top three clubs in Division One with the required facilities (and not a Reserve side) should be eligible for promotion.

 

I am not sure myself if any club finishing as low as 5th (say) in a division of 16 clubs should be promoted.

[Dave Powell]

I'd like to know why Smudge has put CCL and League in the title of this thread? Claims to be the fount of all knowledge and yet doesn't realise the L stands for League?! Excellent knowledge old boy!

I'm with Ellers on this. Not in the top three, hard luck.

Same at the other end. You finish in the bottom three then you deserve to go.

That is the main reason you're seeing good finishes to the season at the bottom of the Prem and top if div 1. If everyone knew it was just one/one down the league would have been dead long ago.

[Smudge]

I'd like to know why Smudge has put CCL and League in the title of this thread? Claims to be the fount of all knowledge and yet doesn't realise the L stands for League?! Excellent knowledge old boy!

I'm with Ellers on this. Not in the top three, hard luck.

Same at the other end. You finish in the bottom three then you deserve to go.

That is the main reason you're seeing good finishes to the season at the bottom of the Prem and top if div 1. If everyone knew it was just one/one down the league would have been dead long ago.

 

Dave,age has nothing to do with making mistakes,but at least I put myself out there to be shot at,by posting a thread.Have you?

 

Talking of errors,Westfield definitely made one getting rid of John Comer,must admit though the 2nd new team Management have turned it round somewhat.Ellers would be backing no change as he is not in the top 5,likewise you would be backing 3 down as your not in the bottom 3 now.

 

The Clubs will never vote for change,reason they are only interested in their own little Club,not the bigger picture.

[Andyls]

Smudge, your post has got some interesting responses

 

Why not bring in playoffs?

 

Why not make clubs that have no intention of getting the correct facilities Associate Members?

 

 

 

 

 

[Big J R]

Smudge, your post has got some interesting responses

 

Why not bring in playoffs?

 

Why not make clubs that have no intention of getting the correct facilities Associate Members?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now that IS an interesting thought !

[thevoiceofreason]

I'd like to know why Smudge has put CCL and League in the title of this thread? Claims to be the fount of all knowledge and yet doesn't realise the L stands for League?! Excellent knowledge old boy!

I'm with Ellers on this. Not in the top three, hard luck.

Same at the other end. You finish in the bottom three then you deserve to go.

That is the main reason you're seeing good finishes to the season at the bottom of the Prem and top if div 1. If everyone knew it was just one/one down the league would have been dead long ago.

Not sure there's much logic in your argument, if you take a more general view, rather than using this season only to make a point. For example. One goes up, two teams neck and neck to the death - a good finish. One goes up, one team clear, not so good. If three, four or five teams go up but that number break clear of the rest, that doesn't mean it's exciting, the team in the last promotion spot could still be twelve points clear of the next placed team.

[ellers]

Smudge believe me I would not want to go up in fifth place from a league of just 16 teams, if it was a league of 22 teams then that's a different matter.

 

Div one this season is the worst standard I've seen in a long time at this level and I do not believe that there is a current team in Division one who would do well in the prem, I think they would all struggle with the current squads.

 

Now a few years back there were 5/6 teams in Div one who would be able to compete in the prem, but that was when the league was bigger and more competitive IMHO.

[E&E Rich]

I spoke to Alan about this on Wednesday at Molesey and he is very keen to see 22 as confirmed here. That is no surprise as he has his League hat on.

 

From a logistical point of view with the number of games postponed for "a slightly muddy area" and the massive backlogs faced by teams, I believe we should drop to twenty and I said it last year too.

 

Yes, yes my club is in the top half, I've heard it all before, but that is irrelevant. I've spent hundreds of hours as a complete neutral trying to work out potential restructuring arguments (which the FA are still looking at by the way), and in that model we drop to 18 teams in each League, although we do manage to bring in playoffs. Clubs at our level don't often make money on a wet Tuesday in January. Many don't make it on a lovely sunny day in September, so it's not a cost issue as is the case higher up where each home game is a big source of revenue. 

 

As said earlier here if you finish in the bottom three you take the risk and with other leagues containing just twenty, you wonder how long it would be before we get another team in our league having a good vase run again. The backlog would be massive if it wasn't Windsor or Camberley.

 

As for the subject of promotion for promotion's sake as I call it, the top three is plenty from Step Six. We only get one up from this division. If teams aren't good enough to finish in the top three of a step six league, they are going to struggle in Step Five anyway.

[Dave Powell]

Not sure there's much logic in your argument, if you take a more general view, rather than using this season only to make a point. For example. One goes up, two teams neck and neck to the death - a good finish. One goes up, one team clear, not so good. If three, four or five teams go up but that number break clear of the rest, that doesn't mean it's exciting, the team in the last promotion spot could still be twelve points clear of the next placed team.

That's correct though VoR, it was just to highlight this season, but also to highlight there is more to play for for a lot of the teams.

[Dave Powell]

Dave,age has nothing to do with making mistakes,but at least I put myself out there to be shot at,by posting a thread.Have you?

 

Talking of errors,Westfield definitely made one getting rid of John Comer,must admit though the 2nd new team Management have turned it round somewhat.Ellers would be backing no change as he is not in the top 5,likewise you would be backing 3 down as your not in the bottom 3 now.

 

The Clubs will never vote for change,reason they are only interested in their own little Club,not the bigger picture.

I never mentioned age Smudge. I was only messing anyway. If I'd known starting a thread was that vital I'd have done it years ago. How many of your 10k + posts have kicked off a thread do you reckon? Also how many have been slaughtering clubs or other people would you say?

 

We certainly have turned it round Smudge.

Of course they're only interested in their own club, it would be ludicrous to think otherwise.

[Smudge]

I never mentioned age Smudge. I was only messing anyway. If I'd known starting a thread was that vital I'd have done it years ago. How many of your 10k + posts have kicked off a thread do you reckon? Also how many have been slaughtering clubs or other people would you say?

 

We certainly have turned it round Smudge.

Of course they're only interested in their own club, it would be ludicrous to think otherwise.

 

I never went to Public School so why call me Old Boy? You only joined this forum Dec 2014, when you got the Westfield job probably,so you couldn't of started a thread,years ago. As for being critical of Clubs or people,very few in my opinion.Starting posts no idea,but out of those posts 16% have received a like from fellow posters.So not a bad track record over 5 year period.

[@BedfontFeltham]

Same stuff every year and we will be having the same discussion this time next year. The issue is simply that the clubs at step four are not good enough and there are more finishing in the bottom two or three ( relegation spots ) and only one getting promoted from step five. Just messes everything up.

 

As Ellers said. If your good enough to go up then you would have finished in the top three Div1. In the prem if the same club finishes in the bottom 2/3 season after season is it right that they get a reprieve?? Also is it right that the same thing happens at step 4?? Blocking the way for two up??

 

Hope you understand what I'm trying to say!! If not, don't ask me to explain as I just about get it myself

[Dave Powell]

I never went to Public School so why call me Old Boy? You only joined this forum Dec 2014, when you got the Westfield job probably,so you couldn't of started a thread,years ago. As for being critical of Clubs or people,very few in my opinion.Starting posts no idea,but out of those posts 16% have received a like from fellow posters.So not a bad track record over 5 year period.

I was a member before under Two other names but for one reason or another I couldn't access them anymore. I originally joined in about 2010/11 which I'm pretty sure you're aware of Smudge. Anyway that's irrelevant.

Keep up the good work.