Malky Mackay

[Rhodes]

I also get annoyed when I have to think about everything I say before saying it in case it's misconstrued

Yes, i know the feeling, like I say you have to feel sorry for Malky as he has been hung out to dry, lets hope Cardiff don't return to the Premiership any time soon so the vindictive Vincent Tan gets his come uppance financially where it will hurt him most.

[cup of tea]

You are, of course correct. There's no place for racism in football, or anywhere else for that matter.

 

Is being openly racist going to help the general situation or is it like prodding a snake? You could argue that it's good to get these opinions out in the open so we can have an honest debate about it but I think it might cause even more resentment and be counter-productive. Some people will never change, they can't as it's been part of their upbringing. If they admit they are racist does that really help the situation. I hope with each passing generation things become better and attitudes change.

 

Could you have imagined a black president of the USA 50 years ago or a woman football commentator in the BBC 30 years ago. We are moving forward.

 

My issue was that you shouldn't have to be careful about what you say in case it was taken out of context. If you are openly being racist then that's different.

[Loose]

You are, of course correct. There's no place for racism in football, or anywhere else for that matter.

 

Is being openly racist going to help the general situation or is it like prodding a snake? You could argue that it's good to get these opinions out in the open so we can have an honest debate about it but I think it might cause even more resentment and be counter-productive. Some people will never change, they can't as it's been part of their upbringing. If they admit they are racist does that really help the situation. I hope with each passing generation things become better and attitudes change.

 

Could you have imagined a black president of the USA 50 years ago or a woman football commentator in the BBC 30 years ago. We are moving forward.

 

My issue was that you shouldn't have to be careful about what you say in case it was taken out of context. If you are openly being racist then that's different.

I'm glad you agree in the main, however as regards being counter productive I simply tire of people attempting to hide their racism behind the old PC argument, you can't be a little pregnant can you? Therefore you can't be a little racist, you either are, or you aren't and as you agree there's no place for it in football anymore, the racism and homophobia I think it's best we know where we stand, as soon as people start to prevaricate I realise that it comes down to cowardice and dishonesty. A lot of footballers read these pages, in a lot of cases they simply couldn't care less about anything but the football, but a lot of our young footballers aren't all IC1 straight males. Fortunately the people who can't change are dinosaurs.

[cup of tea]

I'm not defending racism either privately or publically, I just think that asking people who can't/won't change their minds to be public isn't going to help anyone - dinosaurs, good description. I'd like to think that people like that will just disappear over time. I certainly don't want to give them the desire to share their views with impressionable young people.

 

With regards to political correctness, I think we might have cross lines here. I'm not talking about thinly-veiled racism / Sexism / Homophobia. I'm talking about an innocent comment taken out of context. None of the examples that Malky Mackay that you put on here earlier could possibly be misinterpreted - it's obvious what his opinions are.

 

I'm not racist - I don't feel that I should be worried about what I say in case someone takes my words out of context and accuse me of being so. That's when I think PC goes too far.

Edited August 27, 2014 by cup of tea

[Loose]

I'm not defending racism either privately or publically, I just think that asking people who can't/won't change their minds to be public isn't going to help anyone - dinosaurs, good description. I'd like to think that people like that will just disappear over time. I certainly don't want to give them the desire to share their views with impressionable young people.

 

With regards to political correctness, I think we might have cross lines here. I'm not talking about thinly-veiled racism / Sexism / Homophobia. I'm talking about an innocent comment taken out of context. None of the examples that Malky Mackay that you put on here earlier could possibly be misinterpreted - it's obvious what his opinions are.

 

I'm not racist - I don't feel that I should be worried about what I say in case someone takes my words out of context and accuse me of being so. That's when I think PC goes too far.

No, nothing aimed at you, just anyone who attempts to make this a discussion - or an excuse for Mackay - of "PC gone mad". Got nothing to do with being 'PC' has it, or Banter for that matter, I think thats been seen through by the FA and football fans alike?

[missunderstood]

 

So you seem to be saying, and Smudge too since he liked your post that this is ok:-

 

 

'Fkn chinkys. Fk it. There's enough dogs in Cardiff for us all to go around.'

On the arrival of South Korean international Kim Bo-Kyung

'Go on, fat Phil. Nothing like a Jew that sees money slipping through his fingers'

On football agent Phil Smith

'He's a snake, a gay snake. Not to be trusted'

On an official of another club

'Not many white faces amongst that lot but worth considering.'

On a list of potential signings

'I hope she's looking after your needs. I bet you'd love a bounce on her falsies.'

On a player's female agent

A picture entitled Black Monopoly (where every square was a "Go to Jail" square)

 

 

Fair enough, it's always good to know where we stand.

 

As I said, people can call me what they want and its unlikely I will be offended. In my experience of working with all sorts of people far too often the black guys used the colour of their skin to gain advantages, and as Simon says,go out of their way to be offended. IMO everyone should be more tolerant  and not take offence when it is not intended, and then perhaps we can all start to live in a more tolerant society

Edited August 27, 2014 by missunderstood

[Loose]

As I said, people can call me what they want and its unlikely I will be offended. In my experience of working with all sorts of people far too often the black guys used the colour of their skin to gain advantages, and as Simon says,go out of their way to be offended. IMO everyone should be more tolerant  and not take offence when it is not intended, and then perhaps we can all start to live in a more tolerant society

This isn't about taking false offence Alan, it's about whether a bloke with these attitudes to difference is suitable to be involved in the modern game as a manager. I'm afraid you've picked the wrong crusade. As I said, anyone trying to wrap this up as 'PC gone mad" is a dinosaur so of course you are free in deciding to be one. No offence of course.

[cup of tea]

No, nothing aimed at you, just anyone who attempts to make this a discussion - or an excuse for Mackay - of "PC gone mad". Got nothing to do with being 'PC' has it, or Banter for that matter, I think thats been seen through by the FA and football fans alike?

 

I'm sure nothing was aimed at me I think we agree most of the time anyway.

[Loose]

I'm sure nothing was aimed at me I think we agree most of the time anyway.

Yes it's true, we are on the same page too often for you to be a target. My point was aimed at the established closet racists and bigots, we all know who they are.

[Rhodes]

anyone trying to wrap this up as 'PC gone mad" is a dinosaur

Loosely - Isn't that exactly what it is though, Malky just sent a few texts in private making his feelings known that's all, we all do it

[cup of tea]

Company phone so not private, and no, we don't all do it.

[Rhodes]

Cup of Tea - So you've never sent a text to someone in anger or frustration criticising an individual who has unfairly wronged you

[Loose]

Company phone so not private, and no, we don't all do it.

Well said CoT. Rhodesly can't admit he's wrong but seeing him desperately trying to justify it while staying in the closet is a dead give away.

[missunderstood]

This isn't about taking false offence Alan, it's about whether a bloke with these attitudes to difference is suitable to be involved in the modern game as a manager. I'm afraid you've picked the wrong crusade. As I said, anyone trying to wrap this up as 'PC gone mad" is a dinosaur so of course you are free in deciding to be one. No offence of course.

 

 

No offence taken. 

Like most baby boomers I was brought up hating Germans because my father fought in WW2, my mum also lost her first husband to the Japanese after suffering years of abuse on the Burma railway, so I was also bought up in a house full of hatred for the Japanese as well. When I was old enough to understand I realise they was wrong to hate, and its much better for all nations to work together, and judging people by the colour of their skin was just plain silly. 

Personally I'm not even sure how we define being a racist anymore. We send our armed forces to fight our corrupt politicians  wars knowing that possibly hundreds of thousands of innocent lives will be lost, because of their nationality or religion, and we call them heroes,hurt someones feelings and the chattering classes condemn you as racist. Non of it really makes much sense any more.  

[Loose]

No offence taken. 

Like most baby boomers I was brought up hating Germans because my father fought in WW2, my mum also lost her first husband to the Japanese after suffering years of abuse on the Burma railway, so I was also bought up in a house full of hatred for the Japanese as well. When I was old enough to understand I realise they was wrong to hate, and its much better for all nations to work together, and judging people by the colour of their skin was just plain silly. 

Personally I'm not even sure how we define being a racist anymore. We send our armed forces to fight our corrupt politicians  wars knowing that possibly hundreds of thousands of innocent lives will be lost, because of their nationality or religion, and we call them heroes,hurt someones feelings and the chattering classes condemn you as racist. Non of it really makes much sense any more.  

If you asked a young person from Japan what they thought of their country's part in the war they wouldn't know what you were talking about, if they believed you they'd be ashamed and in shock. Young germans have moved on. You can't continue the blame game over what people's forefathers did can you? You can't carry on thinking that any person's colour or beliefs makes them any less human than yourself. Times change and we can change with them or be isolated in the minority, or we could fight another war I suppose. Did you see that two weeks ago shops and homes in a jewish neighbourhood were attacked in Paris, looted, set on fire? Maybe it's happening all over again. 

Edited August 29, 2014 by Loose

[cup of tea]

Cup of Tea - So you've never sent a text to someone in anger or frustration criticising an individual who has unfairly wronged you

 

Text no, e-mail, yes if I'm honest. I would tell someone if they are being rude etc.

[Rhodes]

You can't continue the blame game over what people's forefathers did can you?

Loosely - Really, well try telling Jewish people that!

[Loose]

Loosely - Really, well try telling Jewish people that!

Careful Rhodesly, that closet door is so weak you'll be bursting through it.

[Rhodes]

I really don't know what all the fuss was about following poor Dave Wheelan's comments in support of Wigan's new Manager Malky Mackay, surely he was spot on as it's common knowledge that Jewish people, such as Alan Sugar for example, chase money more than everybody else and that we have all called Chinese people 'chinks' in our lifetime, both comments aren't offensive in the slightest:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2852064/Dave-Whelan-charged-FA-alleged-racist-remarks-appointing-Malky-Mackay-Wigan-Athletic-boss.html

[Big J R]

Rhodes. you are pushing your luck with the above statement.

 

Yes, I am right-wing as most people on here will know, but I do find your endorsement of Wheelan's comments offensive.

 

Or on the other hand, are you just trying to instil another wind-up ?