A couple of non league snippets

[Shredding Green]

5 hours ago, Jon Underwood said:

He has a track record of throwing away money on football and clearly hasn’t learned his lesson! 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/fa-cup/9781211/Former-Crystal-Palace-owner-Mark-Goldberg-lost-40million-to-game-but-says-he-feels-richer-for-it.html

Mark Goldberg had earned his fortune in the 1990s after selling his IT recruitment business.

Although I did not have access to the details, I could not see how buying Crystal Palace FC from Ron Noades in February 1998 for £22.8m without the freehold of Selhurst Park could possibly be a sensible or viable deal. It appeared at the time that Mark Goldberg was so obsessed with buying Crystal Palace FC that he overlooked the fact that the deal could only possibly have one winner - Ron Noades. 

Taking the development and disposal of his IT recruitment business, the very bad deal he agreed to buy Crystal Palace FC and his 21 years experience in life, football and business since, I certainly would not describe Mark Goldberg as deluded.

National League North and South clubs have been conned this season because the goalposts of what was promised to pursuade them to start the season have been moved now that the pandemic has considerably worsened.

I understand that the loans offered are 2% fixed rate, repayable over 10 years with a repayment holiday for the first two years. They could prove to be very favourable terms if crowds are back from the beginning of April 2021 and there is no return of restrictions. But permanent success in defeating the pandemic is as uncertain as is whether a club will retain it's place in non-league levels 1 and 2 during the next ten years. 

But an individual club might apply and qualify for a grant.

If by April the pandemic is sufficently under control and can be kept at or below that level to enable crowds to return, I would hope to see clubs exercise their options to enable the season to be completed in full. 

I wonder what conclusions a risk assessor would come to ... different ones for different clubs?

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Shredding Green

[Matt]

It really has been fascinating to read and listen to the views of clubs across the three divisions. There have been some predictable statements and some where I’m completely amazed by the view they’re taking. One or two chairmen in particular are clearly living on a different planet to the rest of us. 

I can understand the position of the ‘big boys’ like Notts County and Chesterfield but I can’t believe clubs at our level would entertain the idea of loans, even if they’re at the top end of the table.

What if we take on this “low interest loan” and then, through circumstances either within or beyond our control, have a really difficult time over the next ten years, suffer a few relegations, and are forced to ground share again? We could be playing in front of 200 fans with limited income. Having to make loan repayments for the next 10-20 years wouldn’t look so clever then. 

It feels like all we would be doing is borrowing money to help other clubs, who want to overstretch financially try and finish the season and play for promotion. It looks like there will be no relegation, so the integrity of the league, which went out the window long ago, just diminishes further and makes the whole thing pointless. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Matt

[Sir Rebel1965]

Matt makes a very solid argument.

 

Also what happens if the leauge carries on and we are FORCED to take a loan - it could bankrupt clubs due to the greed of others?

[Stan]

What this all shows is that despite the pandemic putting all of us in an unimaginable position the normal rules of Football administration and “ football business” apply . In other words muddle and economics of the madhouse. 

Because of a lack of decisive leadership clubs are left to simply consider their own best option which leads to chaos.

It sounds like we have done the prudent thing up to now from a financial point of view for which I am extremely grateful.

I dont want to do anything that endangers the future of the club for some short term fix.

I want what every football fan wants , to watch his team on Saturday afternoon even if that means a trip to Dog and Duck FC in the BackofBeyond League two ! Why not  it felt like we did it for 10 years ! 

Taking Loans out now  not for investment with a return but to simply keep a zombie season going is just the sort of madness football is famous for ! 

We have no idea when this could all return to some normality. When this all began last March and people were talking about restarting the season last summer I said we had no chance of being back until at least October and just forget this season and finish the last one!  Turns out I was way too optimistic. Even with Vaccination its not clear we could get back to mass gatherings like they have in Australia and New Zealand because our Governments policy is containment of the virus not eradication like them. That means we will have fluctuating restrictions for months if not years to come with no guarantees about when crowds could return , how big they could be and that there would not be new lockdowns after new outbreaks.

[HorshamRebel]

While all this is going on, Dorking played Bath in a friendly yesterday !

[Irishadrian]

12 minutes ago, HorshamRebel said:

While all this is going on, Dorking played Bath in a friendly yesterday !

Bath did issue a statement saying they had received an email from the League encouraging them to play friendlies if they could arrange them!

[Reading Rebel]

This vote should not be happening tomorrow.

How can any club be asked to vote on something that could affect their future existence not knowing full details of what they are voting for.

A couple of questions spring to mind:

If a club applies for a grant will their application be accepted?

If a club chooses to have have their central payments reduced how much will these payments cost and be reduced by?

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Reading Rebel

[Reading Rebel]

16 minutes ago, HorshamRebel said:

While all this is going on, Dorking played Bath in a friendly yesterday !

Apparently both Dorking and Bath players and staff are regularly tested.

[GlenSTFC]

25 minutes ago, Reading Rebel said:

This vote should not be happening tomorrow.

How can any club be asked to vote on something that could affect their future existence not knowing full details of what they are voting for.

A couple of questions spring to mind:

If a club applies for a grant will their application be accepted?

If a club chooses to have have their central payments reduced how much will these payments cost and be reduced by?

 

I doubt it’ll be that simple as every club would just apply and they’d be no loans just grants!

23 minutes ago, Reading Rebel said:

Apparently both Dorking and Bath players and staff are regularly tested.

Dorking can certainly afford to test week but Bath with public knowledge of their debts?

[Irishadrian]

Bath aren't  testing in the way most would wish  players and officials are made to fill out a quick health questionnaire asking about covid19 symptoms then everyone is temperature tested  anyone with a raised temperature is stood down.

My partner is a nurse for most of last year she was temperature tested before every shift but since November her and her colleagues  have  had swab tests sent of to labs twice per week to ensure safety

[Neil Baker]

46 minutes ago, Reading Rebel said:

This vote should not be happening tomorrow.

How can any club be asked to vote on something that could affect their future existence not knowing full details of what they are voting for.

A couple of questions spring to mind:

If a club applies for a grant will their application be accepted?

If a club chooses to have have their central payments reduced how much will these payments cost and be reduced by?

 

The central option is no longer an option, the league had not even looked into if they could take on the full loan (which they can’t).

Grants will be impossible for clubs who have run prudently which we have, so our only options as I see it are the following:

The league will be null and void

We take on loans to complete the season (I do not believe this will happen)

We refuse to play and take whatever sanctions come our way

We play the season out with no playing budget and if we lose every game then so be it (however we still incur substantial costs to compete)

Every club has their own thoughts and we have to accept it, like I said on Twitter no club wants to be in this position, but this is where we find ourselves because of COVID, if most clubs were honest with themselves if they knew that they would only have 3 months funding very few would have agreed to start, however once started and league positions form that 100 per cent comes into the equation.

Some clubs do have backers and can continue, and some will take a gamble.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Neil Baker

[Reading Rebel]

28 minutes ago, Irishadrian said:

Bath aren't  testing in the way most would wish  players and officials are made to fill out a quick health questionnaire asking about covid19 symptoms then everyone is temperature tested  anyone with a raised temperature is stood down.

My partner is a nurse for most of last year she was temperature tested before every shift but since November her and her colleagues  have  had swab tests sent of to labs twice per week to ensure safety

 

Just now, Reading Rebel said:

So no real proof that some of the Bath players and staff were not covid positive.

Just to play a friendly.

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Reading Rebel

[Shredding Green]

4 hours ago, Stan said:

What this all shows is that despite the pandemic putting all of us in an unimaginable position the normal rules of Football administration and “ football business” apply . In other words muddle and economics of the madhouse. 

Because of a lack of decisive leadership clubs are left to simply consider their own best option which leads to chaos.

It sounds like we have done the prudent thing up to now from a financial point of view for which I am extremely grateful.

I dont want to do anything that endangers the future of the club for some short term fix.

I want what every football fan wants , to watch his team on Saturday afternoon even if that means a trip to Dog and Duck FC in the BackofBeyond League two ! Why not  it felt like we did it for 10 years ! 

Taking Loans out now  not for investment with a return but to simply keep a zombie season going is just the sort of madness football is famous for ! 

We have no idea when this could all return to some normality. When this all began last March and people were talking about restarting the season last summer I said we had no chance of being back until at least October and just forget this season and finish the last one!  Turns out I was way too optimistic. Even with Vaccination its not clear we could get back to mass gatherings like they have in Australia and New Zealand because our Governments policy is containment of the virus not eradication like them. That means we will have fluctuating restrictions for months if not years to come with no guarantees about when crowds could return , how big they could be and that there would not be new lockdowns after new outbreaks.

"Even with vaccination it's not clear we could get back to mass gatherings like they have in Australia and New Zealand because our Governments policy is containment of the virus not eradication like them."

That is an incorrect statement. Australia and New Zealand took stringent action but never had nationwide outbreaks of infections on anything like the scale of the United Kingdom and most other Western European countries.

Today's figures on the Worldometers website show :-

Cumulative reported COVID-19 cases

United Kingdom 3,796,088; Australia 28,809; New Zealand 2,304

Cumulative reported COVID-19 related deaths

United Kingdom 105,571; Australia 909; New Zealand 25

Countries in the world with the most reported rate of COVID-19 related deaths per 100,000 population 

1 Gibraltar 2,217; 2 San Marino 1,972; 3 Belgium 1,813; 4 Slovenia 1,685;
5 United Kingdom 1,550

A long way down the list are 107th Australia 35 and 168th New Zealand 5.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Shredding Green

[rebelade]

This from Dulwich is a brilliant and informative statement 

 

[Stan]

2 hours ago, Shredding Green said:

"Even with vaccination it's not clear we could get back to mass gatherings like they have in Australia and New Zealand because our Governments policy is containment of the virus not eradication like them."

That is an incorrect statement. Australia and New Zealand took stringent action but never had nationwide outbreaks of infections on anything like the scale of the United Kingdom and most other Western European countries.

Today's figures on the Worldometers website show :-

Cumulative reported COVID-19 cases

United Kingdom 3,796,088; Australia 28,809; New Zealand 2,304

Cumulative reported COVID-19 related deaths

United Kingdom 105,571; Australia 909; New Zealand 25

Countries in the world with the most reported rate of COVID-19 related deaths per 100,000 population 

1 Gibraltar 2,217; 2 San Marino 1,972; 3 Belgium 1,813; 4 Slovenia 1,685;
5 United Kingdom 1,550

A long way down the list are 107th Australia 35 and 168th New Zealand 5.

Sorry SG its is the ACTUAL policy of New Zealand . See Jacinda Ardens multiple statements that their policy has always been ERADICATION of the virus. Ours has always been suppression to keep within Hospital capacity. They never had the outbreaks because they took action on every case. Who called it right I will leave for the Historians.

But the point I make still works either way . We are so far away from normal that any option that is a short term fix will end in tears ( or certainly tiers!) 

[Reading Rebel]

39 minutes ago, rebelade said:

This from Dulwich is a brilliant and informative statement 

 

Excellent Statement from Dulwich.

Clubs have been stitched up by the NL with false promises.

I've got my doubts but just got to hope common sense rules and the season is null and voided in tomorrows vote.

 

[Shredding Green]

On 29/01/2021 at 19:52, Reading Rebel said:

The general opinion on this forum and from what I've read on Twitter is that taking any form of a loan that would enable us to continue playing is not an option that we should consider. 

Hopefully it will never come to this but if the alternative option was to accept relegation how much income would the club lose by dropping down a division?  

I wish to remain positive about resolving issues and completing the season.

But if the leagues in levels 3 to 6 do not recommence and there is no promotion to
National League North and South, how would the National League relegate clubs from the North and South divisions?

I don't wish to see it coming to that in any case.
 

[Shredding Green]

2 hours ago, Stan said:

Sorry SG it is the ACTUAL policy of New Zealand. See Jacinda Ardens multiple statements that their policy has always been ERADICATION of the virus. Ours has always been suppression to keep within Hospital capacity. They never had the outbreaks because they took action on every case. Who called it right I will leave for the Historians.

But the point I make still works either way. We are so far away from normal that any option that is a short term fix will end in tears ( or certainly tiers!) 

New Zealand was in a much easier situation than the United Kingdom.

  i) Their number of cases has never been more than a very small fraction of those in the
United Kingdom.  

 ii) They have no neighbouring countries at all whereas every country close to the United Kingdom is currently in national lockdown.

iii) United Kingdom had vast numbers of passengers in transit whereas New Zealand had very few, if any. So much easier for New Zealand control although you probably read about the lady who arrived and was put in a quarantine hotel but started an affair with one of the porters by orderiong a bottle of wine through room service.

Anyway Stan, I feel that I will be monitoring the daily figures for many months to come and I am sure that we both hope to see a successful resolution of the pandemic across the globe.

On a personal note, I tested negative at Langley College on 29th January and have my two vaccinations booked at Salt Hill Activity Centre on 2nd February and 22nd April.

Stay safe! 

[Reading Rebel]

4 hours ago, Shredding Green said:

I wish to remain positive about resolving issues and completing the season.

But if the leagues in levels 3 to 6 do not recommence and there is no promotion to
National League North and South, how would the National League relegate clubs from the North and South divisions?

I don't wish to see it coming to that in any case.
 

I think Bakes has pointed out what the options will more than likely be if the season is to be completed.

To complete the season it'll either be on the basis of having a loan, carry on without a loan or apply for a grant.

I believe if a club refuses to play anymore matches the possible sanctions could be a fine, points docked or automatic relegation. 

[GlenSTFC]

I’d be absolutely gutted and angry if we got relegated for refusing to play, I so hope it doesn’t come to that. I wonder if it’s possible to play the U23 team just to fulfill the fixtures? Could you then furlong our first team squad or would that not be allowed?