Chertsey Town

[johnnojudo]

Preach away Duncs.

[duncs]

Preach away Duncs.

it was worth a try JJ now if you were Ash utd..............only joking AUNastie 

[Beano]

But Beano, do Ashford (Mx) acxtually want to stay in the Southern League ? I've heard that that don't and want to go in the CCL 'cos of travelling ? 

 

You heard wrong. The club did everything in its power to try to avoid relegation but ultimately came up short on the field and so will look forward to new challenges, presumably in the CCL next season, unless The FA have other ideas. 

[BAD GUY]

You heard wrong. The club did everything in its power to try to avoid relegation but ultimately came up short on the field and so will look forward to new challenges, presumably in the CCL next season, unless The FA have other ideas. 

Okay thanks Beano, as usual Chinese Whispers.  Be interesting where the FA put Ashford .

[ellers]

I'm in regular contact with the committee of Ashford Town and they did not want to go down at all and definitely wanted to stay in there division. Hopefully they will bounce back next season.

[duncs]

I'm in regular contact with the committee of Ashford Town and they did not want to go down at all and definitely wanted to stay in there division. Hopefully they will bounce back next season.

no club would want to go down a step thats not the idea of non league or any football the idea is to win and be promoted not lose and get relegated

[johnnojudo]

With all your vast experience Duncs, I really thought you'd know far more than you're letting on.

[ellers]

no club would want to go down a step thats not the idea of non league or any football the idea is to win and be promoted not lose and get relegated

May be no club wants to go down a step, but with some clubs because of travelling and finances a move to a different league or lower division is a wise move for the future of the club.

 

Jonno we would like to organise a pre season friendly mate, we have pitches sorted already. Let me know if interested.

[johnnojudo]

Will contact you in the week mate

[E&E Rich]

If that was put before our club, I am pretty certain we would fold the club up.

The travel logistics for us would be awful.

If you swapped us with East Grinstead or Lingfield I'd go for that!

Our place north of the A3 corridor should be considered.

The basic theory including play offs is very good though.

I must admit, yourselves, RPV and Worcester Park in that example are not exactly where I want them either. I believe they should be heading West not East. My colleague allocated the teams based on a lot more experience of these things, and to be fair, the example actually reduces your average mileage considerably.

 

However, where teams are actually placed is irrelevant  as the FA will decide that in due course. What we are looking at is a whole new restructure that will breathe life into many of the old Step Five areas and I believe it does that amongst other things. 

 

Smudge to answer your question, when the tables were drawn up we had to choose a point in time, and we did this on Monday 10th February. At that time, on a PPG basis, Epsom & Ewell were in second and were placed in the higher Regions, not the Sections. If we were to redraw this which we will at the end of May, it would be Camberley in the Regions and Epsom down in the Sections. Dorking are missing because we only took the top two thirds of teams in Step Six which is why Worcester Park were included instead, despite not being able to get a requisite grading.

 

However, whilst we had a rough idea of the standard of local grounds, we had no clue about many hundreds of others, so could only go on League tables which is why Cobham also missed out, despite probably having a sufficient grading once their lights are fixed.

 

Finally to answer weeble's query, no movements of any club are known until the F.A.'s reorganisation meeting which I believe is set to happen on around 7th May. However, we won't hear about the allocations for a week or two after that at least. I think they just decide who goes into which level at this meeting and then spend the next week or two re-allocating, but I could well be wrong on that!

 

I think we all expect Chertsey and Guildford to be back in the CCL and maybe Ashford Town too, and logic dictates that this should happen but there is still plenty of time for other higher clubs to resign so it's a bit like nailing down jelly at present. You think you've got it done, then suddenly an Alton Town come out of nowhere!

 

Also the Kent (Southern Counties East League) are still on 17 clubs. I'm certain the F.A. will finally force this to twenty clubs minimum as there would have been no point writing to all clubs earlier this season otherwise. My guesswork says that Croydon, and quite possibly AFC Uckfield and Crowborough Athletic could go there but that could also mean that Horley, if they survive, may find themselves in Sussex next season and even Epsom are right on the borderline at Chipstead too, although East Grinstead (if they stay down) or Lingfield could also go East.

Edited April 28, 2014 by E&E Rich

[Powelly1]

Good post Rich.

 

Absolutely right - so much to speculate on. There'll be some unhappy clubs when the decision comes.

 

My mate plays for Alton and he tells me they were unhappy about moving to the CCL, especially as the main reason they moved was that Sholing took voluntary relegation after finishing 7th last season and being in the play offs the previous three seasons. They resigned saying they couldn't afford to be in Southern South and West and yet they now stand to be promoted back to the same division. You can see why Alton would be upset.

[Smudge]

Guildford City was the biggest disgrace ever by the F.A last year,moving them to the Calor South West.After they had done extremely well in the Calor Central the previous season.Loss of Manager,Players,was a near on certainty,with all the extra travelling involved.So they are presumed to be rejoining the CCL after being relegated,what certainty can they have that they will not be promoted back there again if they win the CCL?

[Green_Fingers]

Guildford City was the biggest disgrace ever by the F.A last year,moving them to the Calor South West.After they had done extremely well in the Calor Central the previous season.Loss of Manager,Players,was a near on certainty,with all the extra travelling involved.So they are presumed to be rejoining the CCL after being relegated,what certainty can they have that they will not be promoted back there again if they win the CCL?

 

Guildford are in line for a reprieve - depending on how the FA handle the demise of Hinckley Utd. If the reprieve is "within league" Guildford could be offered it ahead of Ashford Town - but would they accept it if offered?. 

[Krooner]

Only if the FA consider that Hinckley are now the bottom club.

 

FA Rules are cleverly done....

[E&E Rich]

Guildford City will not get a reprieve. They were the bottom club in the division. Hinckley's exit just preserves one more club at Step Three.

 

Smudge, you say that Guildford were wrongly moved over to the South & West, but who else should have gone? Have a look at the map for Step Four and you'll see that the next nearest clubs to the South West were Halesowen Town and Worthing. Now they really would have had an argument with the F.A. but Guildford and Godalming were already on a main route to the South West so it's a no brainer regrettably for our soon to be CCL colleagues. 

 

I think the right decision was made, but you have to look at the bigger picture to realise that.

 

The relevant maps are here by the way:

 

http://www.nonleague.co.uk/maps/steps3-4.php

[Smudge]

Main Route? I presume you mean Motorway,in that case E & E are nearer the Main route than Croydon to both the SCEL or Sussex,so should be moved over.Would you agree?

[Jakesfanclub]

E&E Rich. Beaconsfield & Slough would have had less mileage to cover than Guildford or Godalming. The Leagues' Committee's argument was that the percentage increase in travelling would have been larger for Beaconsfield & Slough and was more relevant than the total mileage.  A completely ridiculous argument as far as both Guildford & Godalming were concerned!

 

I like your re-organisation ideas by the way and think they would solve a fair few problems. Unfortunately, I doubt the FA will take any notice but keep persevering. 

[Green_Fingers]

Guildford City will not get a reprieve. They were the bottom club in the division. Hinckley's exit just preserves one more club at Step Three.

 

Not "just" so. By preserving a Step 3 team one less team is relegated to Step 4. To preserve Step 4 numbers one less team is thus relegated from Step 4 - a reprieve will be offered. It's just question of who it will be offered to. The debate is whether it will be an in-house (Southern League) Step 4 team or one from across the entire Step with the best ppg. The gurus from the other forum have mixed views - the guy that produces the annual spreadsheet - Peter Miller - has it that Guildford - with a better ppg than Ashford - will be offered the reprieve (Thatcham being placed bottom of their division by resigning). As VP & Krooner point out - the FA write their rules with such ambiguity that they can go either way. Peter Millers spreadsheet via this link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqII2SlGRhT7dGQ5ZGJtd0tjY3l2ZW90NHQ2QlFubkE&usp=sharing#gid=0

[E&E Rich]

I also noticed Peter's spreadsheet GF. I don't agree with it in that area though!

 

The one thing that came out from the F.A. that was not as ambiguous as the usual stuff was that the bottom placed clubs would be relegated. The weakest side in that division this season was Guildford City and the reasons why, although maybe justified, are irrelevant in the calculations. Step Five clubs made it clear they wanted more promotion spaces, and it wouldn't totally surprise me if a Haringey Borough or an Ardley / Wantage  (depending on PPG and final results) get the chance instead.

 

Having said that, who really knows what will happen. It is all conjecture and there may well be further twists and turns before we're done, including whether Guildford would actually accept a reprieve back into the South & West.

[Green_Fingers]

I also noticed Peter's spreadsheet GF. I don't agree with it in that area though!

 

The one thing that came out from the F.A. that was not as ambiguous as the usual stuff was that the bottom placed clubs would be relegated. The weakest side in that division this season was Guildford City and the reasons why, although maybe justified, are irrelevant in the calculations. Step Five clubs made it clear they wanted more promotion spaces, and it wouldn't totally surprise me if a Haringey Borough or an Ardley / Wantage  (depending on PPG and final results) get the chance instead.

 

Having said that, who really knows what will happen. It is all conjecture and there may well be further twists and turns before we're done, including whether Guildford would actually accept a reprieve back into the South & West.

 

Here's what's causing the ambiguity - what constitutes the bottom Club? - FA Rule 5.4 

 

5.4 Where a vacancy occurs within the NLS the following procedures will apply:-

 

(i) Where a vacancy occurs in a particular division prior to the end of a Playing Season, the Club creating the vacancy is taken to be the Club in the bottom position in that division.

 

(ii) Where a vacancy occurs at Steps 2 to 4 following the completion of a Playing Season the best ranked Club in a relegation position across the particular Step is reprieved. The ranking to be determined by the average points gained per game played and comparable league position. The Club with the highest ratio shall be reprieved first.

 

(iii) Where a vacancy occurs after the date of a League AGM then a League is not able to replace the Club(s) concerned for the following Playing Season

 

So the current debate is whether Chertsey (and Thatcham) created vacancies in their respective divisions by resigning prior to the end of the playing season? As you say, all conjecture but unlike you I don't believe any more than 14 Step 5 teams will be offered promotion - (Wantage won the Hellenic League on Monday so will be one of the 14)