Reserve division 1 - up in the air!

[Monkey8]

Mind games gaffer? Only attempt at mind games seems to be when you're lighting up my whatsapp feed!!!

 

Friendly banter pal.....sorry I didn't know it was time of the month

[Jonno]

[RisboroRanger]

Looks like London Colney are the major benefactors at the top.

 

Definitely, plus they have to play London Lions twice which will be interesting.

 

They won 5-1 this evening at 61FC and will be gutted if London Lions postpone and they only get 1-0 victories awarded when they'll want to grow their goal difference enough to win the league!

[Baldock_Town]

Interesting debate this - teams dropping out is always a royal pain and for me ruins it for the sides who turn out week in week out.  I can see the league are trying to be as fair as possible, but whatever they decide someone always loses out.

 

Londoncolneyres - with regards to your point about Reserve teams fielding 1st Teamers, whilst I sort of agree with the point being made, I recall you guys fielding about five first-teamers when we played you just before Xmas.  In theory its unfair, but it doesn't always work out.  We drew 3-3 with you that day (think we only had four attempts on goal! ) and when we played 61FC at home we had four first-teamers playing and lost 3-2!  At the end of the day, the Reserve team is there to serve the 1st Team, so although its annoying at times, I don't think there should be a limit.

 

All the best to whoever finally wins the league though.  We have enjoyed our first season in the SSML.  Thought Hoddesdon were the best team we have played home and away, but London Colney were also good and you also can't knock the consistency of St Margaretsbury either. 

[Munchkin]

On limits what about if from the 1st April you can only play a maximum of 4 players that have played in more than 75% of first team fixtures. It would prevent clubs playing their first team in a title decider or to avoid relegation.

 

It could be an administrative problem, and also potentially cause fulfilment problems. However it might stop some of the freak results you see end of season.

 

Personally speaking I think it is unfair on the reserve players who have played all season. We try to rotate where possible, so if a reserve player is doing well they will get a chance to step up and the reverse as well. Same if a first team player has been on the bench and received limited time they will drop down for a week or two.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Munchkin

[patemondo]

Ok guys. This is the situation at Stotfold. When we joined the league we were assured that there would be a limited number of midweek games for the reserves as in the main our Academy team (who pay midweek) make up our reserves and some of our first team.

Last season we had a number of first and 2nd team games on the same night midweek with the Academy team playing the night before or after. We struggled but just managed.

This season the reserves had 8 Saturdays without a fixture. This caused problems with the team. We lost our manager and a host of players who wanted regular footy.

We then found ourselves with both senior teams playing midweek on the same night including the suggestion we go to Hadley for a 6.30 ko (cancelled after protest) when it was dark by 7.45.

In the end we simply couldn't get sides out. Injuries piling up etc. We made an official complaint earlier in the season which was ignored. We never even had a response.

I'm sorry we made the decision but we had no option. The club cannot sustain the fines we would achieve and bearing in mind the fixtures we have had gave long runs of away or home fixtures and weekends without any football at all at Roker Park therefore giving no revenues, the decision was effectively made for us.

In my opinion there is absolutely no chance of any club being relegated and if information I am receiving from some clubs is correct we are one of a number of clubs considering withdrawing.

Even if we had played on we were faced with teams playing their first team in midweek games (particularly those without lights or those who needed points to either win the league or move out of the relegation process.

Until the league address this properly the reserve league will decline which is a great shame as we have always been strong advocates of it.

We are sorry for the inconvenience caused to everyone

[Jonno]

Whilst I sympathise with your situation, I completely disagree about the standard declining. Having been with our reserves on a match day for the last 5 years, I'd say the standard has seen a steady improvement with the last two or three years providing some excellent competitive football. This season alone I have been impressed with the reserve teams from St Mags, Cockfosters, London Colney, Oxhey Jets, Hadley, Risborough, Kings Langley and Kent Athletic, to name a few, and as I type this we could still finish too or fourth, with all to play for.

 

We played in the old Essex and Herts Border Combination League for many years and i am 100% convinced that the SSMFL reserve competiiton offers a much better standard of football and an environment that provides for our players, be they fringe first teamers, players coming back from injury or youngsters who we are trying to blood. I give credit to the SSMFL for offering reserve leagues and hope it's something they continue with for years to come.

 

Reserve football doesn't get the credit it deserves and this season I suggested our club writes to the league requesting a team of the month award for reserve divisions, to recognise the efforts and achievements of all those people who give their time voluntarily to their second strings. Also bugs me that goalscorers are not provided with the bulletins and emails we receive from the league. Why not? Is it a second class of football! Aren't we all second class to the other steps above us?

 

Having said that, with much being written on another thread on here regarding the criteria for team of the month, perhaps it isn't such a good idea to create a reserve team of the month after all!

 

We had to go to kent athletic last week on a midweek 6:30 kick off. Our entire team was available and got to the ground in good time. Some say we are fortunate. I say we are organised, committed and professional.

 

We have got to 5 cup finals in three years, won the floodlit cup two years in a row and will be trying to make it three times in a row some time next month. And we have all the same troubles every club has with injuries, holidays, operating three senior sides, fixture pile ups etc etc.

 

I think we need to be aware of the pressures that come with operating any senior football team and cut our cloth accordingly.

 

That said, I don't want anybody to find themselves losing large sums of money over a game of football, clubs or individuals.

 

But have a good think about whether operating a reserve side is for you and your club and what might happen should things go tits up halfway through the season. We have a third team, two under 18 sides and youth teams from under 17 all the way down to mini soccer. If we lost mangers or players we could continue to field a side consistently and meet our obligations. This has been factored in to our decision to enter a reserve league.

 

Nobody can predict the future but we all operate in the present. Who would have thought London Lions would struggle like they have this season? Well, as it happens, people I know who I talk to regularly and are close to the club told me at the end of last season that they would struggle this year.

 

And how right they were.

 

Didn't envisage it with Stotfold and to be honest, the guys we played a couple of weeks ago were great, despite the obvious pains of losing 16-0. I didn't enjoy that day at all, they didn't deserve that.

 

Jonno

[Neutral]

Jonno for president!

[OD's]

I agree regarding the standard is pretty good and can match the Northern Divison or even better it.

 

Last season our reserves beat Dunstable Town from the Surburban League, which is deemed to be of a higher standard 8-1 in the County Cup semi final and only lost to Barton Rovers in the final on pens.

 

The season before we defeated Leighton Town in the County Cup. and we normally finish mid table in Res Div 1

I dare say the Premier Division will be better, as clubs from Conference Premier and South are in there.

Edited April 25, 2014 by OD's

[Monkey8]

The level of the Reserve league is as high as it's ever been.

 

I would say this season the top 4 have been a cut above the rest. I think it's fair to say that Hoddesdon have been the stand out team of that 4 with a very good league challenge as well as reaching 2 cup finals.

In my eyes they remain the team to beat so credit goes to the management as well as the club for having that level of player and commitment, which is not coming easy for clubs at this moment in time.

 

The idea of splitting the 2 divisions into regions might be the way forward.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Monkey8

[patemondo]

Jonno I didn't say the playing standard will fall quite the opposite it has risen. I am on about the league decline.

Stotfold have always run reserve sides. We have in fact been one of the most successful reserve teams in last 10 years but this has declined recently and our academy has been successful.

We would like to continue to do both but players and clubs need regular Saturday football. Players want to know that the league they are competing in week in week out isn't going to be hijacked by clubs playing first team players in bulk midweek.

If you are going to play reserve fixtures midweek then the league should split clubs into those that have floodlights or those that don't. Or prevent clubs playing more than 4 players who have played in the previous first team fixtures. After all if reserve lads are playing for the side most of the season they don't want clubs using midweek games for first team training games or trying to win or save their club from relegation. It makes it a mockery.

Maybe both.

Either way there are a number of clubs out there who are unable to field two sides in one night on a regular basis particularly if they run a midweek academy team. So they are having to make a choice. Can the reserves, move them to an alternative league (where I agree standards are lower), are add teams to cover which brings more expense. No easy solution I agree. 

[Munchkin]

I really think the only way to really consider changes to regional or otherwise is for someone to submit a clear proposal rather than just raising the question at the AGM. I might have look later of I have the time.

[Max]

We have applied to enter our reserve side in the SSMFL next season and as we will be a very young side next 16-21 with many players that can't drive , we have already asked the SSMFL to consider regional leagues as the thought of having to travel to Milton Keynes every other week will put a strain on resources to get players to matches , the league said that we wouldn't be able to put any suggestions forward until we were accepted at the AGM

[Munchkin]

Sorry what club are you?

 

Two issues with raising at the AGM as a suggestion. There are currently less that 50% of clubs with reserve teams in the league, yet all clubs get to vote.

 

Last year it was unanimously defeated and we lost a club because of it.

 

The only way I can see it ever see it getting through is if someone actually proposes a defined structure, because as far as I can tell the league are prepared for the question to be asked without clear proposal.

[OD's]

^{I dont think the 2 divisions are the problem, its just getting all the games played on a Saturday.}

^{The midweeks have been a nightmare, especially teams having to travel miles for a 6.30pm KO, which is proving to be difficult.}

[Karen Browne]

^{I dont think the 2 divisions are the problem, its just getting all the games played on a Saturday.}

^{The midweeks have been a nightmare, especially teams having to travel miles for a 6.30pm KO, which is proving to be difficult.}

 

Yes I fully hold my hands for this, I was obviously trying to run before I could walk with arranging fixtures for all divisions at the start of the season. Next season will see Division Two and both Reserve Divisions revert back to monthly fixture lists with emphasis on reserve teams at home when first team away (the only exceptions being County and League Cup ties where dates and draw determine)

 

Karen Browne

SSML

Fixtures Officer

[Munchkin]

I don't see how that will ever be solved though. 16 teams is 30 games, add in cups and you are already reaching the maximum number of weekends available. That's before we lose any to weather.

 

I still think the better solution is 3 smaller reserve leagues. A top division and 2 regional. No midweek fixtures and then be creative with cups to increase the base fixtures.

 

I suppose one of the questions to ask is the clubs that moved to suburban and capital leagues for their reason. Would anything convince them to come back?

 

My understanding is also that next season the reserve leagues will move back to monthly rather than season fixtures, which should also help a little. (Beat me to it Karen!)

Edited April 25, 2014 by Munchkin

[OD's]

Yes I fully hold my hands for this, I was obviously trying to run before I could walk with arranging fixtures for all divisions at the start of the season. Next season will see Division Two and both Reserve Divisions revert back to monthly fixture lists with emphasis on reserve teams at home when first team away (the only exceptions being County and League Cup ties where dates and draw determine)

 

Karen Browne

SSML

Fixtures Officer

And of course Karen, the very wet season has not helped which I meant to include.

[tringarmy]

I don't see how that will ever be solved though. 16 teams is 30 games, add in cups and you are already reaching the maximum number of weekends available. That's before we lose any to weather.

 

I still think the better solution is 3 smaller reserve leagues. A top division and 2 regional. No midweek fixtures and then be creative with cups to increase the base fixtures.

 

I suppose one of the questions to ask is the clubs that moved to suburban and capital leagues for their reason. Would anything convince them to come back?

 

My understanding is also that next season the reserve leagues will move back to monthly rather than season fixtures, which should also help a little. (Beat me to it Karen!)

 

From our point of view, Tring left for the Suburban as we didn't feel it was a good enough standard 5 or so years ago. I reckon I could have been playing out on pitch & not looked out of place at times. The lure of playing at "better" grounds was also a factor. The travelling was a lot more at first especially going down to the Heathrow area & beyond to places like Fleet & Cove (which was why I moved to Totternhoe when the 2nd little one came along) but the league seems to be split better now in terms of regions & with a whole load of local derby type games Leighton, Berko, Dunstable, Barton etc

 

We do seem to end up playing a lot away midweek which is a big of a pain mainly down to groundshares & have had a few opposition sides pull out as they have been unable to field a team at the same time as their first team.

 

The SSML regional split & top division makes more sense & keeps it competitive.

 

Maybe a good notion to put forward at the AGM is that only clubs with SSML reserve sides can vote on issues affecting the reserve league

[Jack Sparrow]

After all that St Margaretsbury will still win the league. Well done.