A New Low

[BlackSnake]

Sounds stone wall to me....don't tell them they're being assessed. Simples!

 

I get that at work, telling us we're being audited so you try really hard to not make mistakes but you end up making more.

 

It would be the logical thing to do but how on earth do you get it to happen? Complain to the league? the FA? Or raise a point at the league AGM?

 

If the Spartan league officials are interested in the quality of refereeing then anonymity is the way forward. It's a shame they won't do a thing about it unless all the teams complained - it must go on at other matches so why not bring this to a stop now.

[Neutral]

I think the referees would probably say they wanted to know.

 

And it would have to go through the national FA surely?

[Munchkin]

They didn't used to know, but that changed a while back I believe. They do assess the pre-match talk as well.

 

There is another problem, even if they don't know which games are being assessed, they almost certainly will know who they assessors are, they are mainly ex-referees. Maybe we need MI5 type assessors.

 

I always like the comment about there being loads of cautions without the game being dirty. What does that even mean? You can have a a lot of cautions in a match without it being a "dirty" game.

[petethegreek]

Sounds ridiculous!

 

Neutral - Not sure if the assessor has to listen to the ref's pre-match talk but i dont see why it should have a bearing? Maybe Pete the greek can clarify?

 

I think the proof is in the pudding so to speak and the ref yesterday had had far too much...

 

Since you asked, I'll see if I can answer some of the questions.

 

Level 4 Referees, such as yesterday's at the Hertford Town vs St Margaretsbury match, are informed prior to the game if they are to be assessed and who the Assessor is.

 

An Assessor will normally sit in on the Referee's pre-match instructions if he has not previously assessed him.

 

The assessing form and criteria has changed in the last year where certain areas carry more marks than others.

 

You don't gain extra marks by the amount of cards you shown.

 

Show a card and the Assessor thinks it's wrong then you will lose marks just the same when you don't show a card when the Assessor is expecting one.

[Savagebee]

They are always looking for new Refs!

 

Have go if you think you can do better.

[Neutral]

So more cards doesn't actually equal more marks?

 

May as well lock this thread now lol

[Karen Browne]

Sorry Neutral that last comment was dissent 

 

 

 

 

[Neutral]

Fair enough, ref

[Munchkin]

As far as I am aware we have had 2 referees being assessed during our games. One who we have had quite a lot, I didn't notice any difference to his normal game and thought all cautions were correct including 3 for our team.

 

The other it was the first game I have see him and I don't think it is fair to assume his performance was effected by the assessor. I would be disappointed if the assessor didn't pick up on 2 terrible challenges that warranted red cards, one of which wasn't even given a caution.

[Jonno]

How has this turned into a discussion about assessors and their effect on a game?!

 

Don't stick you're head in and you won't get sent off. Simple. The blame culture at this level is out of control. More managers and supporters need to hold their hands up and accept that sometimes, just sometimes, players are tw@ts. Too many rose tinted glasses on here.

[Munchkin]

Because that gist of the original post. Hardly gone off topic.

[Jonno]

That's a fair comment, the original post was largely about assessors effect on officials. Just bugs me that people think if there is an assessor at their game, it gives them cart blanche to claim it made the ref send off their players.

 

Utter gibberish

[petethegreek]

I've been in dressing rooms where Referees have been torn to shreds by Assessors.

A Referee having a poor game has know-where to hide if an Assessors is watching.

Finish low in the bandings and you are removed from the Panel.

Even the Assistant Referees get marked so they don't get an easy ride either.

 

 

[Munchkin]

That's a fair comment, the original post was largely about assessors effect on officials. Just bugs me that people think if there is an assessor at their game, it gives them cart blanche to claim it made the ref send off their players.

 

Utter gibberish

Completely agree, typical unsubstantiated cliche and what my comments have tried to convey.

[Monkey8]

I think it's pretty simple, assessor or no assessor if a player does what he did he will be sent off..end of!

[Uncle T]

The assessor is there to help the referee with some guidance not to tell hime off and whatever. It would be better if they were assessed whilst refereeing their normal way. Because mostly there will not be an assessor at most games. So if the assessor is not known and just watches the game he will see the referee what he normally does. There is one assessor that comes to our ground and we always end up having a bench fine for 2 standing although from the referee.

 

We want improved referees not robots. 

[Karen Browne]

Would there not be consistency with robots 

[petethegreek]

The assessor is there to help the referee with some guidance not to tell hime off and whatever. It would be better if they were assessed whilst refereeing their normal way. Because mostly there will not be an assessor at most games. So if the assessor is not known and just watches the game he will see the referee what he normally does. There is one assessor that comes to our ground and we always end up having a bench fine for 2 standing although from the referee.

 

We want improved referees not robots. 

 

Cannot fine you for 2 standing.

[Whitley Bay]

The referee at the Hertford v St.Mags decided to go one better. 8 bookings and 2 red cards for a relatively well contested game which the ref ruined for 176 paying fans. Totally lost control and just proved my theory that assessors present make for fussy and over-officious officials.

We had not one but two assessors plus a moderator there today thus tripling the pressure on the unfortunate yet inept referee. Whatever punitive action this guy gets will not save 2 players from unnecessary suspensions, the ruined contest in a derby game, the points lost and the inevitable fine from the FA.

Whilst I'll consider the 'assessor' aspect in a separate post - I note that you have not withdrawn your comment about "...two players unnecessary suspensions..." even though (even you) acknowledge that one Hertford player, as a minimum 'attempted' to head-but an opponent!!

[Whitley Bay]

The referee at the Hertford v St.Mags decided to go one better. 8 bookings and 2 red cards for a relatively well contested game which the ref ruined for 176 paying fans. Totally lost control and just proved my theory that assessors present make for fussy and over-officious officials. We had not one but two assessors plus a moderator there today thus tripling the pressure on the unfortunate yet inept referee. Whatever punitive action this guy gets will not save 2 players from unnecessary suspensions, the ruined contest in a derby game, the points lost and the inevitable fine from the FA.

If you believe an assessor (or three) had an effect on the referee, presumably you've had this referee for another 'nearby' game?

 

How has the referee "...spoilt the game for 176 paying spectators...", was this not the fault of the player who attempted to head-but an opponent?

 

PTG. Am I right in assuming referees are assessed in approx. 66% / 75% of Premier Division games, and only in Divisions One and Two if the referee is going for promotion?