3G pitch debate

[thevoiceofreason]

Gracious apology accepted...not tongue in cheek at all, just speaking my mind before my mind is ripped out and replaced with a far less interesting, if more cost effective alternative.

[7oaks]

Voice of Reason, thanks for that.

 

Seriously though, how does the Desso pitch at Wembley fit on your scale. The grass had to be ripped up 10 times I believe as it was unsatisfactory for football. So now it is semi artificial. I am not sure about it myself, no doubt we will see how it plays this evening!

[andyetfc]

Taken from the Billericay site. How to dry out a pitch.

 

http://metro.co.uk/2014/02/01/bundesliga-club-use-helicopter-as-giant-hair-dryer-to-dry-waterlogged-pitch-4286769/

[thevoiceofreason]

" Would an animal graze on it ?" Is the test question I would need answering satisfactorily before it deserves the title football pitch and the game played on it worthy of the term 'football;.

[MbrunoB]

In a perfect world all football would be played on a perfect grass pitch but we live in the real world and that isn't possible.

[7oaks]

I agree that perfect grass is the best, but if that is not possible what then?

 

I had not realised that Wembley is by no means the only semi-artificial pitch used in top English football. The following club pitches are also using the Desso Hybrid surface: Arsenal, Villa, Cardiff, Liverpool, Man City, Swansea, and Spurs.

 

The aim must surely be to get the best surface reasonably possible in  order that the best football can be played.

[thevoiceofreason]

If perfect grass is not possible, then the best grass that can reasonably be maintained is preferable in my mind to any synthetic cop out. Of course you wouldn't need tireless work from a groundsman if you had a tippy tap pitch, but the same is true if it was made of concrete, because neither is what competitive football should be played on.

 

Where portions of a pitch are repaired artificially, that is to allow the majority of the natural surface to perform well, not to present an artificial surface. It is a temporary measure until the preferred situation can resume.

 

Club loyalty means few fans with a tippy tap pitch will speak negatively about it. The 'best; football is . of course, highly subjective and some may believe that an unpredictable surface produces more errors, excitement and a need to adapt to conditions, which could be seen as better football. (Others will, of course, disagree and will, no doubt have their very own reasons for doing so!

[Enfield United]

We all have an Old Fashioned side to us and i'd like to see every club playing on 'Real' grass only. The inconsistent surfaces and different playing conditions are all part of the beutiful game. therefore all clubs should be given decent grants for excellent drainage systems which prevent games like ours recently, being called off.

 

All Community Charter Status Non league clubs should also be given preference and funding to develope their own 3g training facilities so that childrens/Youth football can always be played for their development rather than being inactive from the recent 3 months of excess rainfall.

 

Where there is a will there is a way but the local authority decision makers are all talk and no action, it makes me vommit when you hear West Ham and Man City are GIVEN FREE stadiums to play in, yet our voluntarily run and organised set up are made to scrape around to survive.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Enfield United

[andyetfc]

We all have an Old Fashioned side to us and i'd like to see every club playing on 'Real' grass only. The inconsistent surfaces and different playing conditions are all part of the beutiful game. therefore all clubs should be given decent grants for excellent drainage systems which prevent games like ours recently, being called off.

 

All Community Charter Status Non league clubs should also be given preference and funding to develope their own 3g training facilities so that childrens/Youth football can always be played for their development rather than being inactive from the recent 3 months of excess rainfall.

 

Where there is a will there is a way but the local authority decision makers are all talk and no action, it makes me vommit when you hear West Ham and Man City are GIVEN FREE stadiums to play in, yet our voluntarily run and organised set up are made to scrape around to survive.

I remember Derby County playing on mud heaps every other week in the 70s and remember the time when their groundsman had to come onto the pitch and paint a new penalty spot.

 

If 3G pitch development improves, then it's worth looking into. Works ok for Saracens. However, if we could improve our pitch, then even better.

 

Can't really believe that all clubs should be given a grant as I don't know where the money would come from. Someone give us a massive donation, then that's different.

[thevoiceofreason]

The last time I looked, there was a bit of a cash cow shortage, so grants etc might be hard to come by. If money can be found to spend on the installing of tippy tap pitches, it can also be used to improve drainage facilities for grass pitches where necessary.

[andyetfc]

I wouldn't have thought Councils will help clubs with drainage problems when there is so much else to spend money on. Pot holes in the road for instance. We will have to do the best we can with what we have.

[thevoiceofreason]

I agree that  clubs will have to do the best they can. What is a bit rich is apologists for tippy tap pitches seizing on the effects of an exceptionally wet period for their own argument's ends.  

[andyetfc]

Be interesting to see what would happen if our club went down the route of installing a 3G pitch.

[thecoldend]

The Cold End spoke to a Forfar fan as they and many other Scottish clubs have 3g pitches

 

http://thecoldend.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/the-big-3g-pitch-debate.html?m=1

[7oaks]

I am not sure what Voice of Reason is referring to when he talks of a "temporary measure until the preferred situation can resume". The pitches I have mentioned in the Premier League are hybrids by design and are a permanent feature. Modern stadiums often are not suitable in micro climate terms for grass to grow well. So the Desso solution, as I understand it, reinforces grass with millions of artificial fibres. The system is also used on the Sao Paolo stadium pitch in Brazil ready for the World Cup.

I think that the very wet weather has highlighted the problems clubs face maintaining all grass pitches in good condition. But those clubs playing on 3G pitches were not persuaded by the weather in recent months, they chose to do so for largely economic reasons, I suppose. The pitches are available almost 24/7 so all the club's teams can play on the one high quality pitch saving the club the cost of hiring alternatives and clubs can also hire out their pitch for other uses. All clubs have to consider the economic choices facing them, they may choose to invest more on players at the expense of improving the drainage, for example, of their pitch or they may decide that a FIFA recommended 3G pitch is a better investment in the longer term. There is a real cost attaching to postponed matches, especially derbies over the Christmas and New Year period. I see that Maidstone's gate on Boxing Day was 2000, had that game been postponed to an evening fixture later in the season the gate may have been below 1500, a loss of over £5000 in gate receipts alone, then there are the cash flow issues of paying staff when there is no income due to postponed games.

[thevoiceofreason]

But life and football are not all about money to some people,

[MbrunoB]

But clubs survival IS all about money.

[thevoiceofreason]

Depends how prudent you are with what you've got, though.

[Eastside Urchin]

Surely it's cheaper for clubs to invest in covers for the pitches???

Ok it wouldn't get the games on under a hard frost but that's not usually the issue,it's more snow and in particular rain which has led to postponements this season.

While not cheap,surely if every club had covers then the costs of these would reduced quite dramatically if mass purchased

[MbrunoB]

Funnily enough they have been having the same discussion in Speedway about covering the track, nothing gets done there either!!!