BIG SHAKE UP IN CCL?

[Savagebee]

Season 14/15 in the CCL,could see a lot of sideways moves for at least 5/6 CCL Member Clubs.Currently 6 ex CCL sides,plus Corinthian Casuals sit in Relegation places at Step 4,add in minimum 2 Promotees from Div 1.This makes 9 Clubs vying for 4 Maximum places.Windsor to the Hellenic maybe?Wembley to ssml ?Croydon to the SCEL?Horley to Sussex?South Park if they do not win the League to Sussex?AFC Croydon Ath if promoted to the SCEL,if they are still groundsharing at the Arena.The list is endless.

 

All if's, but's and maybe's at the mo and its seems to be the norm these days for this to happen between seasons now.

 

We have often been linked to a move across to the CCL.

[CW1975]

so by what yhou are saying YV clubs are blackmailing the league by telling them if we have to go back to our grounds then we will fold then that is more unacceptable,it is only fair to teams that have the facilities and want to come into this league be let in,I bet that most of these clubs given a deadline date would come up with something

 

At the last AGM I asked the question to the league committee whether there were teams willing to come up as the Div 1 was low on numbers with the view of having two years to get up to the required ground grading and their answer was that they canvassed all surrounding intermediate leagues and no one was prepared to step up, it's not just my opinion that I base the views I post on duncs, it's based on the facts from asking the question. I also wouldn't say that clubs are by any means blackmailing the league, more a case of if the clubs were forced to return to their grounds they would not have the grading to stay or the ability to upgrade in order to stay. Not sure what the two Epsom teams, Badshot Lea, AFC Croydon and Mole valley would go back to as they don't have grounds. Lammas are the only ones with a place they can call home and they have tried to develop but are unable to, hence the ground share.

[newby marvel]

its a shame certain councils dont back football clubs looking to promote into senior football, more kids doing an activity rather than roaming streets. it filters from a first team to a youth system all pluses obviously cash flow permitting!

football brings people together shame councils see different.

 

like yv said about the base of a club an installing a 3g this  can only generate income for a club.

[milner]

There is teams that want to get into the C.C. We at Horlsey would definatley like to get into CC , Our chairman who does everything by the book didn't want to apply as we were told we would need planning permission for lights passed before you are now accepted , and although we have just had planning passed for a 3g training pitch with lights knew we couldn't get this done before dec 31st . Alan constable came out with 2 other officials are were great in advising us on our ground which barring a few bits which are no cost would allow us in. So really the lights issue has stopped us this season, we hope when our 3g is finished at the end of january which has risen in  cost from £ 270,00 to now of nearly £400,00, (so beware of this even with Football Foundation funding we have had to find half)  we can then start on the necessary planning etc for the lights and hopefully get things sorted and ready to apply next season as our club feel we need to make this step . We realise though we would have to also finish ideally top or the top 4 then its down to teams grounds above etc, so even then nothing is guaranteed even if we get the necessary work completed. So from step 7 to 6 even as Alan said is getting harder a lot of which is out of the C.C hands.

[CW1975]

Good to hear an ambitious club wanting to progress. I think that even if you didn't finish in the top 4 you should be able to apply to enter at this level, why try and hold clubs back. Once you are in you would be able to attract players of the ability to be at this level if needed.

 

It would be interesting to know how your club found the other half of the money as I know many clubs who would like to invest in 3G would be wondering. With the money you spent you could have ground shared for 5 years in the CCL before your lights were ready

[Lazy Sod]

Krooner, I absolutely agree with you about clubs defaulting on their debts and starting again as if nothing has happened. 

 

However, I think there are certain circumstances where a groundshare benefits both clubs and therefore the game as a whole and the idea of just banning the concept is completely impractical. If you do, clubs who cannot develop their own grounds will simply wither away and that can't be a good thing.

 

If it's good enough for AC Milan and Internationale, or Sampdoria and Genoa, or for numerous professional football and rugby clubs (of both codes) then why should it be banned in the English non-league game?

 

It's a bit tricky using professional Italian clubs as an example as they are merely tenants of a community owned facility. I wonder how many clubs in the CCL actually own their own grounds and how many lease them either from a local authority or private landowner. The whole matter of groundsharing is an incredibly emotive subject but not restricted or limited to the CCL. I am not a great fan of it and I doubt that anyone connected with a club that has no option but to ground share would be a fan.

 

I think that Duncs is actually trying to say that clubs should not use groundsharing as a sole means to progress through the leagues and, to be honest, he does have a point to an extent.

 

Wherever possible though, clubs should be given every encouragement going to be able to play at their own grounds. This is essential in order that they can have a far greater identity. We are strange in this country that we have a great attachment to the football grounds of our favourites regardless if it is a Premier League side or a Sunday morning pub team. How about instead of fighting each other and arguing about this or that, that we consolidate our efforts in order that clubs can have the opportunity to play at their own homes.

[milner]

In reply to young veteran question  how we funded our half, its been 5 years saving , the committee at club but mainly down to one person who has spent all of the last 2 years writing to every funding for sport that he could find  , every local committee that donates even if its just a £100 to there local team .Then as we have 30 teams from u8 to adults begging letters to parents managers,coaches, players, helpers , aunts, uncles, for help in donations basically anybody who he thought might or would help, so somehow they have got it Even when the extra cost came in which as a club we were a bit shocked, but once committed as it will only benefit the club long term, the chairman has taken the gamble i dont know all the exact balancing but know some generous donations have helped. Last thing whilst on the 3g , when applying you have to show a long term plan, we are talking 10 to 15 years as the pitch will need relaying and the upkeep etc. So you have to show you will generate the cost to do this by renting out, which in our case was harder as not many local schools but we have managed it, Although we have had already clubs asking to hire it in the evenings but with 30 of our own teams there is limited space, thus the school and even surrey fa etc to rent in the day are vital.Its great but as said you need as we have had one person to more less make it an obsession to get it form an idea to a reality. One footnote regarding local councils, unfortunately we are on the wrong side of the border of the local council as Westfield ,Woking etc ours are not interested in helping probably the same people that put the original gulldford city fc out of existence years ago.

[Tel]

In reply to young veteran question  how we funded our half, its been 5 years saving , the committee at club but mainly down to one person who has spent all of the last 2 years writing to every funding for sport that he could find  , every local committee that donates even if its just a £100 to there local team .Then as we have 30 teams from u8 to adults begging letters to parents managers,coaches, players, helpers , aunts, uncles, for help in donations basically anybody who he thought might or would help, so somehow they have got it Even when the extra cost came in which as a club we were a bit shocked, but once committed as it will only benefit the club long term, the chairman has taken the gamble i dont know all the exact balancing but know some generous donations have helped. Last thing whilst on the 3g , when applying you have to show a long term plan, we are talking 10 to 15 years as the pitch will need relaying and the upkeep etc. So you have to show you will generate the cost to do this by renting out, which in our case was harder as not many local schools but we have managed it, Although we have had already clubs asking to hire it in the evenings but with 30 of our own teams there is limited space, thus the school and even surrey fa etc to rent in the day are vital.Its great but as said you need as we have had one person to more less make it an obsession to get it form an idea to a reality. One footnote regarding local councils, unfortunately we are on the wrong side of the border of the local council as Westfield ,Woking etc ours are not interested in helping probably the same people that put the original gulldford city fc out of existence years ago.

Excellent, just shows what a lot of hard work can achieve

[Powelly1]

Great club Horsley. Their only problem to progression will be the 1st team manager - clueless.

[milner]

hi ya Powelly heard he learnt a lot from you 

[Ashfordmidd]

Ccl committee are a joke ground grading should only come in when trying to get out of prem all these clubs spending money on ground grading how long does it take clubs to get there money back when you average gates of 20-50 people

[CW1975]

Ccl committee are a joke ground grading should only come in when trying to get out of prem all these clubs spending money on ground grading how long does it take clubs to get there money back when you average gates of 20-50 people

The FA determine the ground grading rules, the leagues are to enforce them the same as all other FA rules.

[Tel]

Ccl committee are a joke ground grading should only come in when trying to get out of prem all these clubs spending money on ground grading how long does it take clubs to get there money back when you average gates of 20-50 people

THE FA RULES, O. K.

[lazarus]

I will comment upon this if I may, as the League is being blamed.  In the last month or so, we have visited Horsley, Yateley United, NPL and Virginia Water, all with the approval of the Surrey Elite League and at the request of the clubs concerned.

 

All of them have nice grounds and generally have all the inside facilities required with excellent club houses.  None of them though currently come close to meeting the full requirements of Grade H, the entry grade for Step 6 (Division One) as far as outside facilities are required, e.g. lights, sufficient hard standing, covered accommodation, etc. 

 

As a League and in order to keep the numbers up, we would like to be able to accept clubs of this type, certainly Horsley who are further advanced than the others, if we felt that the potential to achieve the grading was there and would be achieved within a reasonable amount of time.  We took both South Park and Knaphill, to name two, on that basis and they have both prospered.  We can no longer tell potential new clubs that we will accept them on that basis as we no longer have the last word.

 

The Football Association take a far greater interest these days and they lay down the facilities required and make the final decisions each season right down to Step 7.  Even now they could turn round and tell us to relegate all the existing clubs in our Division One who don't meet Grade G although  I don't think they will as we would then be left without enough clubs to form a Division One.  The clubs rejected the idea of a maximum of two reserve sides from higher levels being admitted so we clearly have a difficulty.

 

We are trying to arrange meetings with the Chairman and Vice Chairman of the FA Leagues Committee to emphasise face to face the problems that we and other Step 5 Leagues have in maintaining their second divisions and we are also writing to them, although they are already well aware of our concerns.  Whatever the merits of the Step 5 re-organisation (if there were any) which only re-organised Steps 3 & 4 (!), an undeniable side effect is that Step 6 divisions throughout the South East and maybe further afield are now stretched with very few clubs able to fill the vacancies caused by having 24 clubs in some of the divisions at higher level.

Edited January 14, 2014 by lazarus

[A town]

So Lazarus does this mean there will be no-one coming up from Surrey elite for next season ?

[lazarus]

It doesn't look like it

[milner]

Fully agree with Lazarus in fact at Horsley we would like to thank the officials from the C.C. who were superb when they come out to us to look at our facilities and gave us some really good advice, even to the extent that we actually had to do less work than originally thought and (as said in my earlier entry) would accept us with a few things being done in the time allotted , all of which we could do. The one thing that as they explained is totally out of there hands is and i think a new FA rule for this season that has now stated the planning for lights must be passed before a team could be considered for the C.C. and as explained in my earlier post this wasn't possible for us in the time scale so in there defence the officials  from C.C. are trying there utmost to get new teams by visiting clubs advising & encouraging them etc but they have to abid by the FA rules, as said we want to progress and hopefully come dec next season we will apply with the all the relevant work done and the step can be made. But hey who knows a year down the line it could be made even harder but as a club wanting to go forward you have to do what you need and hope for the best.

[Chris Clapham]

Looks like our division 1 will be severely depleted next season then!

[E&E Rich]

It is a tough one to call for as you put up good examples people can provide bad ones.

 

I personally do not like ground sharing and am of the opinion that if a club wishes to groundshare there should be certain criteria.  This would include a say 5 year plan to be in their own ground.  That is my opinion but I don't have anything against any club that does ground share as they are all doing what they are allowed to do within the rules.

 

I do think a more important subject is clubs going bankrupt/restarting/going into administration.  Now that does get me hot under the collar.

At no point did we ever "wish" to ground share, Krooner.

[Krooner]

At no point did we ever "wish" to ground share, Krooner.

I understand that Rich.

 

Perhaps I should have said.  "If a club wishes to play at Step6 and above and has to Groundshare to achieve that" would have been a better phrase but you know full well what I meant !!