Jobless Falls

[Rhodes]

Loosely - Scargill was responsible for mining though wasn't he and his so called 'brothers in arms' were responsible for shipbuilding, steel production, the car industry and ancillary industries, they were all singing from the same hymn sheet in an attempt to bring our proud Country down and when Margaret Thatcher 'dared' to stand up to them, unlike previous Prime Ministers, they didn't like it and got nasty.

[Loose]

Loosely - Scargill was responsible for mining though wasn't he and his so called 'brothers in arms' were responsible for shipbuilding, steel production, the car industry and ancillary industries, they were all singing from the same hymn sheet in an attempt to bring our proud Country down and when Margaret Thatcher 'dared' to stand up to them, unlike previous Prime Ministers, they didn't like it and got nasty.

Well the thing is Rhodesly, that we have this marvellous thing called hindsight, and with it we can divine that it was Thatcher who killed off British Manufacturing and Industry because she was too afraid to stand up to the French and the German's who were subsidising their industries with our money. She was less afraid of removing the livelihoods of not just one generation of British workers. Anyone who believes otherwise is ignoring the facts and results and is an idiot.

[cup of tea]

The thing that worries me is the incessant call from the likes of UKIP to pull out of Europe. What's left of the motor industry in this country is mostly in foreign hands (Mini,Jaguar for example) or is indeed foreign companies like Nissan and they will be climbing over each other to move production to somewhere else in Europe, decimating what's left of manufacturing which has quite correctly has been stated was sacrificed by Thatcher. Still it's okay to do that, we can put our faith in the financial markets can't we?

[Rhodes]

She was less afraid of removing the livelihoods of not just one generation of British workers

It was the militant Unions who were ruling the roost and running the Country back then, things had to change!

[Loose]

It was the militant Unions who were ruling the roost and running the Country back then, things had to change!

Workers were creating wealth for investors and a living for themselves and their families, unions worked to preserve the status quo if anything, Thatcher destroyed the relationship and left both groups with nothing. Grow up.

[Big J R]

"New Balls Please !"

[Rhodes]

Thatcher destroyed the relationship and left both groups with nothing

What relationship, there wasn't one as the Unions wanted it all their own way

[Loose]

What relationship, there wasn't one as the Unions wanted it all their own way

I'm afraid you just continue to display your ignorance Rhodesly. 

[Rhodes]

Loosely - Well you have to admit the Unions didn't do themselves any favours back then did they with their 'everybody out' attitude at the drop of a hat

[Loose]

Loosely - Well you have to admit the Unions didn't do themselves any favours back then did they with their 'everybody out' attitude at the drop of a hat

You mean like the Civil Service Union in 1979 Rhodesly?

 

You really have no idea what you are talking about do you Rhodesly? 

[Rhodes]

You mean like the Civil Service Union in 1979 Rhodesly? 

What on earth are you talking about, honestly!

[Loose]

What on earth are you talking about, honestly!

Exactly Rhodesly, you have no clue as usual. Case closed.

[Rhodes]

Loosely - Like I said it was the militant Unions who were ruling the roost and running the Country at that time and things clearly had to change, why don't you admit that they (the Unions) didn't do themselves any favours whatsoever with their 'everybody out' attitude, have you ever seen 'Carry On At Your Convenience'.
 

 

[Loose]

Loosely - Like I said it was the militant Unions who were ruling the roost and running the Country at that time and things clearly had to change, why don't you admit that they (the Unions) didn't do themselves any favours whatsoever with their 'everybody out' attitude, have you ever seen 'Carry On At Your Convenience'.

 

Yes Rhodesly, that's all you've got to bring isn't it? The same thing you said before…and before that… ad infinitum.

 

Very lame.

[cup of tea]

I have a lot of time for unions - when they play a proper role in industry. A lot of the employment rights, things we take for granted in business today are as a result of union activity and I'm sure some of the beneficiaries of those employment rights are being critical of unions on here.

 

However, Scargill was not motivated by the needs of his union members but by his own political agenda. He was hell bent on bringing down the Thatcher government and to be honest couldn't care less about the people that he should have been representing. The coalmines were uneconomic, you could dig it out of the ground in Australia, transport it to the coast, ship it half the way around the world and deliver it cheaper than we could produce it in this country. There were many mine closures under the previous Labour government. His behaviour played right into Thatcher's hands and she took the opportunity to smash the NUM and accelerate coal mine closures. If you were going to close mines to save money, then there should have been investment in other opportunities so that the communities that were affected by these closures had something else to fall back on, that was the big mistake there.

 

Scargill was scum as far as I am concerned.

[Loose]

I have a lot of time for unions - when they play a proper role in industry. A lot of the employment rights, things we take for granted in business today are as a result of union activity and I'm sure some of the beneficiaries of those employment rights are being critical of unions on here.

 

However, Scargill was not motivated by the needs of his union members but by his own political agenda. He was hell bent on bringing down the Thatcher government and to be honest couldn't care less about the people that he should have been representing. The coal mines were uneconomic, you could dig it out of the ground in Australia, transport it to the coast, ship it half the way around the world and deliver it cheaper than we could produce it in this country. There were many mine closures under the previous Labour government. His behaviour played right into Thatcher's hands and she took the opportunity to smash the NUM and accelerate coal mine closures. If you were going to close mines to save money, then there should have been investment in other opportunities so that the communities that were affected by these closures had something else to fall back on, that was the big mistake there.

 

Scargill was scum as far as I am concerned.

I've never been convinced of the popular assigned motives for Scargill's actions but despite or in-spite of him the Government of the day forgot that they owed a duty of care to the workers and instead Thatcher used the police and a change in law to destroy not just their livelihoods but also their spirits and communities. When we talk about how cheap it was to buy coal elsewhere we forget three things, that those other producing countries had been the beneficiaries of incredibly high infrastructure spending, newer technologies and cheaper work forces, that in the case of Germany and France those governments subsidised the price of coal through simply taking advantage of the overpayments on the Common Agricultural Policy and indeed Britain's contributions themselves, all the time Thatcher crowing about a minuscule rebate! And that the expense of the social welfare bill increase far outweighed any savings Thatcher thought she could bring about by crushing men and destroying a nation's industry. Scargill at least had the mandate of his union members while Thatcher broke the law and changed it where necessary, one woman's spite and fury at being confounded.

[cup of tea]

Don't get me wrong, I have no time for Thatcher whatsoever. Her failure in Europe combined with her decision to base the UK economy around the financial markets to the detriment of our industrial base along with selling off everything in sight (including public utilities who we are complaining about making excessive profits now) in my opinion made her the worst prime minister of the 20th century. Even Nigel Lawson recently admitted that some of the policies like selling off council houses were a mistake. I remember my friend's elder brother (who was a young policeman at the time) bragging about the amount of overtime he made out the coal miner's strike, the over-zealousness of her reaction was unforgivable and there are communities that will never recover.

 

I accept all that, I don't accept that Arthur Scargill acted in the best interests of the union members of the NUM and never will.

[Loose]

I'm not in the business of defending Scargill however this destruction and diminishment of the unions by know nothings is  ridiculous. As you've said, many have been the unwitting recipients of the benefits others fought for and yet the single biggest accounting factor that demonstrates the continued need for a legitimate voice for workers has been the ever widening gap since the 80s of the wealth of the elite classes and the depth of poverty of those beneath. You'd think the idiots were turkeys voting for Christmas all year round.

[Rhodes]

I'm not in the business of defending Scargill

I've just fallen off my chair, pull the other one!

[Loose]

I've just fallen off my chair, pull the other one!

Oh dear, the idiot appears. If you cannot read then don't speak Rhodesly on what you know nothing about would be a good maxim you've demonstrated so well lately. Your pathetic contributions diminish what could be a decent forum.