CCL "weaker" than the Kent League?

[Bronco]

I don't have a beef with either E&E. I am fully aware that sometimes the decision is taken out of the hands of the clubs. I'm at Alton Town so I know about it first hand. I just think that, where possible, clubs should be encouraged to develop their own grounds. You will also notice that I mentioned FA rules not helping. What do you do if you just CANNOT develop your own site to the correct standards? Obvious. You look to groundshare.

[E&E Rich]

I just wanted to point out that there are two types of ground sharers Bronco.  

 

TTT is correct too, and it all comes down to how important a little football club is to a Councillor. The answer presently is not very much.

 

Not that the Council are the only party to blame for our plight.........

[Krooner]

I just wanted to point out that there are two types of ground sharers Bronco.  

 

TTT is correct too, and it all comes down to how important a little football club is to a Councillor. The answer presently is not very much.

 

Not that the Council are the only party to blame for our plight.........

Talk us through it Rich !

[BAD GUY]

I'd guess for the 3 CCL Prem clubs that groundshare it costs from £8K - £15K (max) a season ?.

 

I honestly don't know where Mole Valley, Badshot Lea and E&E keep getting the money after all these years, its certainly not thru' the gate....    .#sugardaddy 

Edited December 19, 2013 by BAD GUY

[Smudge]

Way off the mark, 6k max.

[Lee Farmie]

I would say lower end of Bad Guy's range is closer but ultimately it depends on the number of matches and the proportion of matches which are floodlit. Obviously no two agreements are identical.

[Two Ton Ted]

E&E groundshares are funded by the revenue of the sales of West Street and the Banstead Road site they didn't get planning permission for, so the longer the years wtihout a ground the harder it will get to build one.

[E&E Rich]

Way off the mark, 6k max.

    :D    

[E&E Rich]

I shall repeat what TTT has said, and have said it before on this forum.

 

We do not have a benefactor. If we did, don't you think they'd have sorted out a ground for us by now instead of giving it to others so we can rent forever?

 

We are TOTALLY dependent on what remains from the sale of West Street in 1993 and then Banstead Road in 2003 which was originally purchased as our new site but had planning permission refused on it in the mid nineties. When that runs out, we have two options remaining if we still have no ground by that time; fold up or parks football.

 

I won't divulge figures here except to say that at no point have we ever been fortunate enough to get a ground share for £6,000. I will also advise that the deal we have with Chipstead is better than the deals we had with Merstham and Banstead, even when you factor in the cost of the Reserves and Youth played at Banstead.

[Two Ton Ted]

It would have been cheaper for E&E to buy Merland Rise rather than be tenants for all those years. Sadly we don't all have the benefit of hindsight.

[Bronco]

With E&E on this. The figures for one groundshare is way above Bad Guy's top number. Others are well within it and none as low as £6k. I won't mention any of the clubs involved as it is unsubstantiated but I did hear one number a while back from the assistant manager of one of the teams involved. Top end of Bad Guy's quote.

[Krooner]

Listen up we all know Mr B Guy knows all

[Smudge]

Was just basing my figure on Croydon Arena,not bad as facilities go,except for the running track.£230 per game,16 League games,cost£3680,6 cup games cost £1380=£5960

[E&E Rich]

I think the fairly obvious flaw in your calculations is the 16 League games, seeing as we are talking principally about the Premier Division clubs Epsom, Badshot and Mole Valley.

[Smudge]

5 Extra League games £1150 admitted.But have you guys never heard of bargaining/discounts?

[Bronco]

Fair enough on your calculations Smudge. Makes sense. Just doesn't seem to be like that when it comes to it.

[duncs]

I've listened to both points of views for years now and I have to say the teams that have groundshared for years have to be given a deadline date to move into thier own grounds or they will be asked to leave the league,its not right that other clubs who have developed thier facilities wiv the help of thier councils are held back by clubs with thier councils not wanting to help,theres no point in these clubs continuing cos eventually they will go out of existence.

[Savagebee]

CCL "weaker" than the Kent League no not in my opinion ive always thought the Combined Counties League Premier and Division One to be one of tougher leagues at step 5 and 6 to be honest.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Savagebee

[Lee Farmie]

5 Extra League games £1150 admitted.But have you guys never heard of bargaining/discounts?

 

I've not heard of "bargaining" and "discounts" in groundsharing negotiations.

 

Have you heard of VAT?

[E&E Rich]

The VAT is an interesting issue.

 

When we were with Merstham, we argued (successfully) that VAT wasn't payable. I forget the exact reason, but our Treasurer works in the taxation area and as far as I am aware, we are not paying VAT to Chipstead either, although I'm not party to the latest agreement so don't know the figures at this point.

 

As for discounts and bargaining, our people don't do that sort of thing, Smudge. We just went with the better of the quotes we were provided with. However, in our club's defence it is very much a seller's market as we can't just say that we'll go elsewhere. Few clubs offer ground shares as it affects things like a club's Reserves or Youth teams and each club has to factor in which is the more worthwhile, especially if your Youth team is well supported by parents, who may get involved on a regular basis or book socials at a club, sponsorship etc. We'd love to share at Corinthian Casuals which is less than half a mile from our Borough, and with better rail links, but in the past they've declined our approach. Hopefully, we'll keep trying, even though we have confirmed 2014/15 at Chipstead.

 

As for Duncs' comments about a deadline, I understand where you are coming from logically, but you are using a football argument in an increasingly business-centric world, and you cannot stop a club from earning money from a ground share. It is a restraint of trade which is not something even the Ryman League were able to defend back when we were at Merstham and Badshot Lea were at Godalming. ITK would be able to enlighten us further on this I believe.

 

In fact, you could also make the case that the revenue from such an arrangement actually keeps some other clubs going.