The Welfare State

[Basil-Don]

so the tories have finally brought in benefit caps- so a single unemployed person can still get up to £350 a week for doing jack sh1t,remind me again how much the minimum wage is?? £6-20 a hour so basically sign on the dole and the law entitles you to £100 a week more than the minimum wage. great to see that this country puts benefit claimants before working people.

[missunderstood]

so the tories have finally brought in benefit caps- so a single unemployed person can still get up to £350 a week for doing jack sh1t,remind me again how much the minimum wage is?? £6-20 a hour so basically sign on the dole and the law entitles you to £100 a week more than the minimum wage. great to see that this country puts benefit claimants before working people.

 

 

 

Not all people on benefits are scroungers and for many of them that have been made unemployed though no fault of their own £350 is totally inadequate for their needs.

 

 If all the people on the minimum wage joined a trade union and fought for a decent living wage, then they would be better off than benefit claimants. 

Edited July 15, 2013 by missunderstood

[Basil-Don]

yeah would be great if everyone joined a trade union,we haven't had a power strike for years,dustmen on strike rats roaming the streets,remind me what happened in the seventies when most workers were in a union?? oh I remember every manufacturer left the country and set up elsewhere. what a great debt the working people of this country owe the unions.  if you feel that £350 a week isn't enough for single benefit claimants why don't you organise a strike for your comrades,oh no im forgetting you only organise industrial action for the most selfish, money grabbing reasons. 

 

  sorry im not being rude but you really do sprout some left wing bullsh1t.

[cup of tea]

I think you will find that it was Margaret Thatcher who put her faith in the financial markets and let the industrial base run down in this country.

The Credit Crunch proved that was a mistake.

 

Margaret Thatcher also decided to allow people to buy their own council homes that eventually ended up in the hands of greedy buy to let landlords and we have massive waiting lists now. Even Nigel Lawson now admits that was a mistake.

 

We have also suffered (and I still see it today) where financial management in this country puts short term profit ahead of long term investment - That's the main reason why the Germans in particular have kept a strong industrial base because they were prepared to invest. Richard Branson has gone on record as saying that the biggest business mistake he ever made was to float his company on the Stock Exchange(keep profits up as people expects dividends).

 

Were unions out of control in the 70s - Yes.

Are they solely responsible for the industrial decline in this country - No.

[Smudge]

Sir Richard Branson,a great British Icon who does not make mistakes,as far as money is concerned.Love it when my internet goes down,get to speak to Indonesians,Indians,who probably get paid a pittance compared to the Minimum Wage.We make nothing nowadays,we own nothing nowadays even our Premier Football Clubs that are any good are owned by Johnny Foreigner.This Country is finished,will be 3rd World rated in 20 years.

[Loose]

Branson's chatting the sh1t. He made his money out of using other peoples. He may be Big Banana now but his idea wasn't original, you only make big money by using other peoples.

[Basil-Don]

Germany kept its industrial base as the Unions actually co operated with Management,give a trade unionist in this country a decent job with a decent wage and the first thing they will do is go sick for a fortnight on full pay,then come back and slow the job down so they can get overtime, i've worked in these factories where trade unionists have sabotaged work to get Sunday overtime. greedy,money grabbing,reactionary,racists who take their opinions straight from The Sun editorials.your average shop steward wouldn't know who Karl Marx was.

[cup of tea]

So you would admit then, when a union behaves responsibly and works with a sensible management, it can be a good thing,.

[Loose]

Germany and France kept their industrial base, steel, coal, railways - even, because they heavily subsidised them while Thatcher refused to. Consequently we don't have jobs on the same scale in those sectors while of course german unionists are happy to still have jobs. British union workers weren't fighting on a level playing field and Thatcher had to change the law to beat them and ruin British Industry.

 

Even now most of Germany's Railways are nationalised and economists, the CBI and yes, even Unionists appreciate that in order to have a safe, efficient, and maintained infrastructure providing ticket prices that customers can afford will necessitate the re-nationalisation of UK Railways. You don't need to bone up on Karl Marx to realise that Britain's current operators have stripped out all the costs and banked all the profits on lines unless they run between Gatwick and Victoria or Kings Cross and Manchester.

[missunderstood]

Germany kept its industrial base as the Unions actually co operated with Management,give a trade unionist in this country a decent job with a decent wage and the first thing they will do is go sick for a fortnight on full pay,then come back and slow the job down so they can get overtime, i've worked in these factories where trade unionists have sabotaged work to get Sunday overtime. greedy,money grabbing,reactionary,racists who take their opinions straight from The Sun editorials.your average shop steward wouldn't know who Karl Marx was.

 

 

If you worked in unionised factories you must have enjoyed the benefits gained from being part of the trade union movement, unless of coarse you rejected everything negotiated by those evil union reps, on principle.

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

On the whole, the reforms that came in today are a good idea.  We cannot (and should not) give out to those people who are too lazy to work.  I'm not talking about incapable (physically or mentally disabled) but the lazy sods who think that it is beneath them to work in a warehouse or at McDonalds.

 

I'm going to sound like an old git, but nobody helped me.  I had to do some rotten jobs (12 hour continental shifts at times), but I worked hard and am now at a comfortable stage of my life.   I don't see why Wayne and Waynetta Slob should get my hard earned tax so they can drink and smoke it away or put it towards upgrading their Sky packages (go to any council estate and you'll see more satellite dishes than in space, I guarantee).  

 

Life is hard, and it is going to get harder until we can solve our financial problems.  

[BUFC]

yeah would be great if everyone joined a trade union,we haven't had a power strike for years,dustmen on strike rats roaming the streets,remind me what happened in the seventies when most workers were in a union?? oh I remember every manufacturer left the country and set up elsewhere. what a great debt the working people of this country owe the unions.  if you feel that £350 a week isn't enough for single benefit claimants why don't you organise a strike for your comrades,oh no im forgetting you only organise industrial action for the most selfish, money grabbing reasons. 

 

  sorry im not being rude but you really do sprout some left wing bullsh1t.

Love it!!

[Smudge]

Adam you are a typical Tory,you mention go to any Council Estate and you will see more satellite dishes than in space.Suppose you have visited many of these areas recently.Most are now Privately owned dwellings after Maggies great Housing Sell Off as mentioned above.Can I ask you this question,do you agree with Overseas Aid,Trident,Iraq/Afghanistan Wars,Mass Immigration,Cutting Legal Aid.

[missunderstood]

On the whole, the reforms that came in today are a good idea.  We cannot (and should not) give out to those people who are too lazy to work.  I'm not talking about incapable (physically or mentally disabled) but the lazy sods who think that it is beneath them to work in a warehouse or at McDonalds.

 

I'm going to sound like an old git, but nobody helped me.  I had to do some rotten jobs (12 hour continental shifts at times), but I worked hard and am now at a comfortable stage of my life.   I don't see why Wayne and Waynetta Slob should get my hard earned tax so they can drink and smoke it away or put it towards upgrading their Sky packages (go to any council estate and you'll see more satellite dishes than in space, I guarantee).  

 

Life is hard, and it is going to get harder until we can solve our financial problems.  

 

 

I only had two periods of unemployment in all my working life, both lasting about six weeks. I would never have considered a job at McDonalds because I would never have been able to live on the relatively poor wages, and thought it the more sensible option to wait until something decent turned up. IMO the vast majority of unemployed people genuinely want to work, but quite understandably  don't want to work in a p1ss poor job that pays starvation wages.  

[BUFC]

do you agree with Overseas Aid - NO,Trident,Iraq/Afghanistan Wars - NO,Mass Immigration-  NO,Cutting Legal Aid - YES.

[Eastside Urchin]

I have said time and time again that although I despise the unions,worked properly they could benefit many normal people but they are far too political and about as understanding to modern peoples needs as a cancerous wart.ok so they are always going to nail their mast to the left but is that always for the best for their members.....no of course it isn't.

The unions were mainly defunct from 1995 ish till the Tory/lib dem coalition but once they got in they started thriving again,surprise surprise...,.

There was plenty for the unions to shout about pre Cameron & clegg but apart from that self serving champagne socialist bob Crowe,they couldn't be bothered to upset the apple cart

Edited July 16, 2013 by Eastside Urchin

[Eastside Urchin]

And lets face it,Crowe is one if the biggest political idiots this country has seen since lord fckng Arthur

[missunderstood]

And lets face it,Crowe is one if the biggest political idiots this country has seen since lord fckng Arthur

 

 

Bob Crows RMT members are amongst the best paid blue collar workers in the UK with the best terms and conditions . Under Crows leadership their membership has increased, and he got re-elected unopposed so obviously his member are more than satisfied with the job he does on their behalf. .

[cup of tea]

The problem I have with that Alan is that the money used to pay those workers has to come from somewhere - Are train drivers etc more deserving than nurses for example?

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

Adam you are a typical Tory,you mention go to any Council Estate and you will see more satellite dishes than in space.Suppose you have visited many of these areas recently.Most are now Privately owned dwellings after Maggies great Housing Sell Off as mentioned above.Can I ask you this question,do you agree with Overseas Aid,Trident,Iraq/Afghanistan Wars,Mass Immigration,Cutting Legal Aid.

 

Well that's one of the nicer four letter words I've been called, Smudge.

 

To answer your questions:

 

Overseas Aid - No.  We're still giving to the likes of India and China and yet they are both prospering!   We've given to Africa, since Bob Geldof was in Pampers, and yet parts of Africa are still a bastard case with no sign of ever improving!  We don't have that much money to give anymore.

 

Trident - Nuclear Missiles.  Will have to say on the fence with this one.  We shouldn't have to use nukes, but when you consider that North Korea and Russia have nukes pointed at us (I know for a fact that St. Athan and Carterton have nukes aimed at them) it's a case of who blinks first.

 

Iraq/Afghanistan War - I'm against any and all wars.

 

Mass Immigration - Dead against it.  We have far too many people here already.

 

Legal Aid - Depends on who uses it - if it's a poor person who needs support to fight against somebody who has wronged him then yes.  If it's a multi-millionaire then he/she can pay out of his/her pocket.