Ideas for the League

[lazarus]

Thank you for the constructive comments.

 

It can be quite difficult to allocate midweek fixtures for those clubs on the extremity of the area.  They have to have their fair share but following the loss of North Greenford, Wembley, for example, don't really have any local derbies.  If at Christmas and Easter, for example, I pair up Bedfont Sports and Hanworth Villa, which is an obvious Bank Holiday fixture, Wembley have to play someone else and Windsor is probably as close as anyone.

 

Also, sometimes in order to achieve a full list of fixtures on a Saturday, one or more of the games will be between clubs not too far away and I would love a pound for every time someone has said to me "that one could have been played in midweek".  It's just not quite as easy as might be imagined.

 

With reference to pitch inspections, I agree it can be very difficult, with some referees calling matches off if there's a heavy cloud in the sky and others who will play no matter what.  The procedure is laid down by the FA (as indeed are most things, including virtually all our rules) and I am not sure how we can overcome the problem of the weather changing very quickly, especially in midweek, although length of journey for the away side should be, and I am sure it is in most cases, a significant factor.  Maybe the only comfort is that in higher leagues the situation can be even worse.  With Ashford we travelled to Cinderford Town (close to the Welsh border) a few years ago in midweek only for the match to be abandoned and Canvey Island came to us more recently when the pitch was perfectly playable in the afternoon but it rained so heavily in the space of two hours just before kick-off that it had to be postponed.

 

Clubs get very angry sometimes if a match is called off, or conversely, it isn't and the only benefit of a referee making the inspection is that he comes at it from a neutral point of view.  If the decision was left to home clubs, it would lead to greater controversy I would think

 

The League web site is maintained by our Acting Chairman Chris Conlon and he agrees that it is due for an update.  He is actively speaking to someone at the moment, so there are likely to be some changes in the future.

 

With reference to officers visiting grounds, I think we have had more people out and about this season than in others.  Chris, Tony Ford and Neil Morrell are out and about virtually every week.  Whilst my devotion to Ashford keeps me away on Saturdays generally (and I did make this point before I took the job on) I do get to  midweek games when I can.  Others such as Barbara Fripp (Registrations) and various of our Vice Presidents, such as Ken Huckle, David Havenhand and Ted Smith get around as much as they can.  Phill Nash, who appoints the assistants, is also at one ground or another, as an active official most weeks.  It doesn't always help though when the presence of a League Officer is seen as an opportunity to bring up some old score where the Club didn't like a particular decision, especially when it happened years ago!

 

Finally apologies that we took the wrong cup to Westfield last week.  It was a genuine mistake (by me) and, having realised it, we asked Frimley if they would like the wrong one to be presented on the night and switched later.  They said yes and I don't think it really spoilt the players' enjoyment of the evening.  I think someone suggested that the whole Management Committee should be replaced as a result, which might be a tad harsh, but we will endeavour to ensure that it doesn't happen again.

[bomaya]

Thanks for coming on here and explaining a few things Alan, I'm sure it is greatly appreciated by many.

 

Good to hear that the website is possibly having a revamp. Have you any thoughts about the further online activity as mentioned by a few of us - ie a facebook page or official twitter feed?

[HKP]

There are ways that you can link the likes of twitter, facebook and your own website so that one update can appear in all these places.

[Big J R]

As usual, Alan, a forthright open and honest response.

 

Very many thanks indeed.

[BAD GUY]

Thank you Lazarus for your explanation.  May I say, although not involved, you have done a remarkable job with the fixture mayhem due to the adverse weather conditions experienced this season. 

 

Jolly good show dear chap !

Well done

[Gluck_ab]

Website is the worst at Step 5 level,FACT.It seems to me that things do not change year to year,and never will.We definitely need a new Refs Secretary,one who gets out and about to watch the people he appoints.We have some very good Officials,but unfortunately many are past their sell by date,things have to change and quick.

 

Smudge 

 

I don't agree that a new Refs Secretary is required as the existing one does a good job under difficult circumstances given that the ability to appoint L4 referees to Premier Division games is dictated firstly, by the FA having first choice of those available for appointments to Contributory League games and secondly, having to allocate those remaining available to him to games within that division. This has a subsequent knock-on effect to Supply League games.

 

How do you know he doesn't already get out to watch games already, and will receive marks from clubs for referee appointments and will receive marks from assessor appointments to a minimum of 50% of the games in that Division. Over the course of a season, the accummulation of these marks will give a good indication of a referee's performance as opposed to the limited (?) number of times you may have seen that referee officiate. Ergo, the appointments made to Cup semi-final and finals reflect those who have performed well over the course of an entire season, i.e. the referees of the Premier and Division 1 Challenge Cups were promoted to L3 this season.

 

Bear in mind too that L4 referees are banded A to E in respect of assessment and club marks and, subject to the criteria stated by the FA, those in the lowest bands will be demoted. An annual fitness test is also required to be passed before the new season commences. Likewise, those who have performed well - are in the higgest bands - will be considered for promotion. In respect of that, 4 CCL refs have been promoted to L3 this season - see previous paragraph.

 

You state that the League has some very good officials but many are past their sell-by date but don't propose anything to address replacing them or addressing that issue. It is not simply a case of promoting younger referees as, is often the case made on this forum, they don't have the man-management / life skills (presence) to enable them to control difficult games. Likewise, there is not a huge pool of referees prepared to meet the FA's requirements at L4 and so many are happy to remain where they are. We should be grateful that the CCL has a good reputation for refereeing on and that officials want to referee to do so. That says as much about the standard of the football and the professionalism (in this context) of the clubs and players involved as it does about the efficiency of the appointment process / system of officials to those games.

 

The job is not a simple one and the unusually poor weather this season has not made that task any easier.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Gluck_ab

[Smudge]

Gluck AB,the thing that marvels me is how can a Referee be appointed to games on Club marks,when many of the good ones,hardly ever get a game on CCL to be marked.I have in the past on this very Forum praised Refs,Annan Desai this very year,Johnathan Creswick on many occassions last year.along with Deli Sotomorin whom have all been promoted this year.Add in Mr Gareth Mays,Mr David Crick,Mr Banderas,Mr. Roger Wells,Mr Tristan Greaves,Mr Nicky Clark,Mr Steve Earl,Mr Brian Fish,Mr.Ian Hemple, they all have one thing in common,not card happy,time to talk to players and explain decisions post match,in the bar after a game.You know as well as I do,Clubs do not do themselves any favours by not marking Poor Refs down,which they should do.Then there are the unfit Linos,who marks them?

[Mewcenary]

One follow-up to Gluck_ab's comments: Level 5 referees (Those on Div 1 and Reserves) are also banded A-E based on their club marks.  Similar to Level 4s, there is a policy that referees who continuously feature in Band E will be removed.

 

Smudge, Assistant Referees are marked by the referees.  These marks can be used by the AR Secretary for further action as required.  Referees can also directly report Assistants should there be a real cause of concern.  

 

Also, when a L4 (Premier) referee is assessed, so are the Assistants!  I'm not sure if these marks go to the AR Secretary or not but, again, issues will be spotted...

[Picto Cotts]

Having had experience of a few Supply Leagues I can honestly say that the CCL easily administered the best. That's not to say it's perfect, but it is generally open, honest, progressive and inclusive with it's member clubs interests at its heart. I also have to say that the vast majority of CCL clubs are warm and welcoming. The same can't be said of some other counties league clubs where you are lucky if you see any club officials.

As far as match officials are concerned we have to remember that the CCL is at the lower end of the refereeing ladder. You are not going to get Premier league standard referees, though we may be lucky enough to see a potential Premier league referee during his formative development. A former CCL referee was just promoted to the Football League 5 seasons after being promoted from the CCL.

The league sometimes have to make difficult decisions, its hands are often tied by FA regulations, but they are generally made for the good of the league as a whole.

As someone said earlier, if you don't like it... It's my bet we'd see you back the following season, if not sooner.

[Don't Blame Me]

Thanks Alan for a very informative, frank and honest reply.

[mu68]

Allow player loan moves between clubs. After all its supposed to be a senior league. Obviously it would have to be controlled but i think it would be beneficial

[Mark-Tommo]

I think they should have transfer windows like the football league. But slightly different. Obviously we don't want teams struggling to field, so clubs can sign new players all year long, but to transfer between clubs have to be done during windows.

[lazarus]

The League suggested to the FA earlier this season that a loan system for non-contract players should be introduced but the idea was flatly rejected.  The only way that non-contract players that can be loaned from one CCL club to another, is for a transfer form to be completed when the "loan" is to start and then another transfer form at the end of the "loan".

 

The League does not have an objection to both forms being completed when the loan begins as this would safeguard the loaning club.

[Terrence Collina]

but isn't there a minimum period that needs to pass before a player can be transferred back to the previous club and what would happen if the 'loan' period ends after March 31st?

[BAD GUY]

Isn't this what happens anyway?

Obviously not Regs !   Walton Casuals reprieved !  I would imagine that as CCL Prem lose 2 Egham and Guernsey as promoted and Dorking as relegated, Ash and Sandhurst are reprieved.......making way for Frimley Green, Mole Valley and Westfield...(I would assume)  !!!!      It does make me wonder had 2nd place Guernsey NOT got promotion (the first time I believe in CCL Prem) would Walton Casuals got relegated to CCL ? This would then see the bottom three Dorking, Sandhurst and Ash would have been relegated, isn't that the correct format ?? ....   Lets look further, CCL Div 1 lose 3 teams due to promotion, will there be any replacements from lower leagues... so will CB Hounslow get a reprieve ??

[Windsor_Sec]

but isn't there a minimum period that needs to pass before a player can be transferred back to the previous club and what would happen if the 'loan' period ends after March 31st?

TC a transferred player cannot transfer back to his original [or indeed any other club] until 14 days from the original transfer have elapsed.  The registration deadline is known by all clubs and therefore I would think that if they wanted that player to return for the latter part of the season they would ensure the loan finishes prior to March 31st !  I think Alan's comment about the return form being signed at the time of the transfer [loan] covers any misgivings/doubts the loanee club may have.  

[E&E Rich]

Bad Guy, Regan was referring to your comment which was clearly referring to the CCL, which I produce below.

 

"Have NO reprieves, you come in botton 3 you are relegated, provided the clubs in CCL Div. 1 have the ground grading. This will stop the league becoming stale and for up and coming clubs who have worked so hard for porgression to get their rewards. "

 

The Ryman is a different animal.

 

As for Walton casuals depending on Guernsey, that's not relevant. The FA decide the number of Step Four clubs, and because they had taken two from each of the eligible Step Five clubs they reprieved Walton Casuals. I bet that went down well in Spennymoor but there you go.

[BAD GUY]

Bad Guy, Regan was referring to your comment which was clearly referring to the CCL, which I produce below.

 

"Have NO reprieves, you come in botton 3 you are relegated, provided the clubs in CCL Div. 1 have the ground grading. This will stop the league becoming stale and for up and coming clubs who have worked so hard for porgression to get their rewards. "

 

The Ryman is a different animal.

 

As for Walton casuals depending on Guernsey, that's not relevant. The FA decide the number of Step Four clubs, and because they had taken two from each of the eligible Step Five clubs they reprieved Walton Casuals. I bet that went down well in Spennymoor but there you go.

Hear what you say E&E but my concerns and discussions were about reprieves.  Every season there always seems to be reprieves and this season is no exception (summising) .

 

All I am saying that if a club comes bottom of Ryman they should be relegated end of.  CCL/FA knew that there could possibly be 2 clubs being promoted from CCL Prem and that 3 will be relegated thats 5 clubs to replace. With 3 coming up as all 3 grounds in CCL Div 1 are ground graded, that would mean 4 out and 4 in, then the decision about who comes 2nd in the CCL Prem   I'm not being detrimental towards the bottom teams, but they finished up there so expect the consequences.

 

It would be good to have Walton Casuals, Frimley, Mole Valley and Westfield + 1 other covering Guernsey promotion to liven up the league as again its same old, same old.....stale ! 

 

I do appreciate that clubs going bust could/will have had an affect on the above, but you get my gist.

 

The other question remains, 3 CCL Div 1 clubs are being promoted so who will be replacing them with acceptable ground grading ?  Could it be that there is no-one so CCL Div. 1 are 3 teams short next seson ?  Has any other club applied to join the CCL ?   

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

What about the rumour that some Step 4 sides were considering their Reserve sides into the CCL?

[bomaya]

That was covered by Lazarus some weeks back.

 

Would it be that bad if ccl1 had only 14 teams?