How would you improve the league?

[petethegreek]

The referees I've seen this season seem to have words. Maybe just not public ones. A foul is a foul after all (PTG i'm sure will say different lol)

 

Also, I don't think the league are responsible for the refereeing assessment system. Surely it is good we have so many refs aspiring to get to the next level?

 

 

I'll try to put some of the myths to bed.

 

Referees are like Clubs.

 

Some try to get promoted, some try to avoid getting relegated out of the Competition (don't annoy Mr Ewen) while the rest are happy to plod along mid table.

 

So there is pressure on Referees and Assistant Referees to perform.

 

They are a different kind of beast when the Assessors are about. These Referees, the Level 4's mainly, need to do things by the book. They need to impress the Assessor to gain as many marks as possible. An example where the players can make the life of a Referee easier is the dreaded undershorts. A Referee spots a player wearing the wrong colour undershorts and tells him to leave the Field of Play to remove them. The player makes a fuss, the manger comes out of his pram and the team is down to ten players. If the Referee ignores this then he loses those precious marks. This then effects his average mark for the season. A fraction of an average mark could mean the difference between going up, staying down or losing his Level 4 status. 

 

Maybe if that player with the wrong colour undershorts hadn't played cute and rolled them up during the pre-match checks then the problem would not have arisen.

 

Just a though.

 

At the end of the Assessing Year their average is worked out along with their Club marks and they are then placed into bandings. More about bandings later.

 

Higher up in the ratified atmosphere of the Football League more dissent is allowed to go unpunished. This is because no game would finish is you carding everyone for dissent plus the Assessors are not interested in that. Down at SSML level they are.

 

Clubs moan about cheap yellows such as dissent or kicking the ball away. That is down to the players being stupid. Don't blame the Referees for that.

 

When there is no Assessor at the game, you will find Referees being more tolerant. This is called playing for Club marks to try and improve their bandings. More about bandings later.

 

The top 4 Referees in the bandings went up to Level 3.

 

You don't have to finish in a top position to go up. One Referee made it to the next level and he wasn't the fifth best. Think of him as Winslow United. 

 

Others will dispute their marks and contest them and wonder why they never get promoted even when they don't finish in a promotion spot. Think of Hoddesdon Town. (just kidding, Jonno) 

 

The Competition is not part of the Assessing Scheme but the two do work closely in answer to your final question.

 

If you are good enough as a Referee then you will get to the next level. Think Ayslebury United.   

 

On a final note, the one area that Clubs complain about, and I agree with, is the gap in consistency from one Referee to the next. Sort that out and your're half way to eradicating the numerous complaints.

 

 

[Deano999]

I agree that consistency is an issue, but I think the clubs should do more to help referees as some of the behaviour I've seen this season has been disgraceful. My lad has been stamped on while he lay on the ground, elbowed in the face, kicked and told "there's plenty more where that came from", all when the ball was not even in play and I know the officials saw the incidents yet took no action. These thugs think that is acceptable behaviour once they cross the white line onto the pitch and sadly their managers, by saying nothing, only condone this behaviour. Forget sock tape and undershort colour and let's address the real problems that the poor referees face. RESPECT my arse.

[petethegreek]

If in your opinion the Referee has a poor game, give him / her a low mark and write a letter to Mr Ewen .

 

The SSML is probably the top Supply League in the country. If you think there are problems then you are lucky you are not playing elsewhere.

[smellynuts]

Thanks for your candid comments PTG, however they do come over as pretty much self incriminating to officials and confirm the problem is mainly due to Assessors and those who directs them.

 

PTG "They are a different kind of beast when the Assessors are about. These Referees, the Level 4's mainly, need to do things by the book. They need to impress the Assessor to gain as many marks as possible.

When there is no Assessor at the game, you will find Referees being more tolerant. This is called playing for Club marks to try and improve their bandings. More about bandings later"

 

"Higher up in the ratified atmosphere of the Football League more dissent is allowed to go unpunished. This is because no game would finish is you carding everyone for dissent plus the Assessors are not interested in that. Down at SSML level they are"

 

Comment: Is it not also because they have reached the top, they are allowed to use common sense, and obviously there assessors also allow them the wiggle room. Which brings me to my main point,  which is if this is the case, why can they not allow this common sense approach to occur at all levels, then the whole game would be improved for everyone, and referee's who are currently under pressure to change their normal way of officiating by assessors, would be held in a much higher regard than what they are now?

 

Additionally, can the league not acknowledge that having such a high number of assessors (in our case over 75%) at our games leads to an unfair distribution of cards - a point that you freely acknowledge happens. There should be a system of equal number of assessors per club at the very least.

 

PTG; "You don't have to finish in a top position to go up. If you are good enough as a Referee then you will get to the next level"

Comment: Great, tell the referee's that so that they are not so brutal with the cards when assessors are there!

 

PTG; "On a final note, the one area that Clubs complain about, and I agree with, is the gap in consistency from one Referee to the next. Sort that out and your're half way to eradicating the numerous complaints."
Comment: Difficult to change, because at all levels you see this, although the higher you go the less obvious it becomes. More chance of changing a much higher percentage of poor linesmen at our level, who for example cannot even understand that (generally unless interferring) until you receive the ball, you ARE NOT offside!

 

To summarise, Referees should not have to change their game because an assesor is present - this is false practise and is unjust to clubs. Applying Football League common sense refereeing at our level would make the relationship between players, managers, and referees infinately better, improving the game all around. There is nothing to stop it happening, it just requires the SSML establishment to direct officials to this end.

[Rebadiah Hongfield]

Linesmen under the the age of 60 would be a huge improvement to this league

[A.nonymous]

Have to admit St Mags were the most indisciplined team we came across this season.

[petethegreek]

Thanks for your candid comments PTG, however they do come over as pretty much self incriminating to officials and confirm the problem is mainly due to Assessors and those who directs them.

 

PTG "They are a different kind of beast when the Assessors are about. These Referees, the Level 4's mainly, need to do things by the book. They need to impress the Assessor to gain as many marks as possible.

When there is no Assessor at the game, you will find Referees being more tolerant. This is called playing for Club marks to try and improve their bandings. More about bandings later"

 

"Higher up in the ratified atmosphere of the Football League more dissent is allowed to go unpunished. This is because no game would finish is you carding everyone for dissent plus the Assessors are not interested in that. Down at SSML level they are"

 

Comment: Is it not also because they have reached the top, they are allowed to use common sense, and obviously there assessors also allow them the wiggle room. Which brings me to my main point,  which is if this is the case, why can they not allow this common sense approach to occur at all levels, then the whole game would be improved for everyone, and referee's who are currently under pressure to change their normal way of officiating by assessors, would be held in a much higher regard than what they are now?

 

Additionally, can the league not acknowledge that having such a high number of assessors (in our case over 75%) at our games leads to an unfair distribution of cards - a point that you freely acknowledge happens. There should be a system of equal number of assessors per club at the very least.

 

PTG; "You don't have to finish in a top position to go up. If you are good enough as a Referee then you will get to the next level"

Comment: Great, tell the referee's that so that they are not so brutal with the cards when assessors are there!

 

PTG; "On a final note, the one area that Clubs complain about, and I agree with, is the gap in consistency from one Referee to the next. Sort that out and your're half way to eradicating the numerous complaints."

Comment: Difficult to change, because at all levels you see this, although the higher you go the less obvious it becomes. More chance of changing a much higher percentage of poor linesmen at our level, who for example cannot even understand that (generally unless interferring) until you receive the ball, you ARE NOT offside!

 

To summarise, Referees should not have to change their game because an assesor is present - this is false practise and is unjust to clubs. Applying Football League common sense refereeing at our level would make the relationship between players, managers, and referees infinately better, improving the game all around. There is nothing to stop it happening, it just requires the SSML establishment to direct officials to this end.

 

The problem is not the Assessors.

 

I look at the top 4 Referees on Assessors marks and then look at their Club marks. These guys are the ones who get the balance right and get marked highly in both areas.

 

It's about doing things properly and not shirking your responsibilities. 

 

There is no difference on the line. I don't change my style when there is an Assessor at the game.

 

My bandings on Assessors marks and Referees marks this season would be double A. I just try to do things properly and let the marks sort themselves out. Unfortunately, not everyone has this approach. 

 

As to why you have had a high number of Assessors at your games that is a question for the guy who appoints them.

[petethegreek]

Linesmen under the the age of 60 would be a huge improvement to this league

 

The FA is not allowed to discriminate on age any more. 

 

Maybe my suggestion of a fitness test for Assistant Referees may help. 

[smellynuts]

The problem is not the Assessors.

 

I look at the top 4 Referees on Assessors marks and then look at their Club marks. These guys are the ones who get the balance right and get marked highly in both areas.

 

It's about doing things properly and not shirking your responsibilities. 

 

There is no difference on the line. I don't change my style when there is an Assessor at the game.

 

My bandings on Assessors marks and Referees marks this season would be double A. I just try to do things properly and let the marks sort themselves out. Unfortunately, not everyone has this approach. 

 

As to why you have had a high number of Assessors at your games that is a question for the guy who appoints them.

Pete,  Not sure about "putting myths to bed", more like "opening up a can of worms"!

 

You state "The problem is not the Assessors"

Well according to your good self, you say "These Referees, the Level 4's mainly, need to do things by the book and they need to impress the Assessor to gain as many marks as possible, When there is no Assessor at the game, you will find Referees being more tolerant".  

 

It follows the referee's clearly feel they need to change the way they officiate, someone has to take responsibility, who do you feel that should be?, and why for example can't the Assessors say "just referee your normal game?" rather than mark them on a false performance and on one they would not ordinarily officiate?

 

PTG "It's about doing things properly and not shirking your responsibilities"

Doing things properly is not altering your officiating because an assessor is there, surely? 

 

Fair play to you PTG when you say you do not change your style for the assessor, so can't you raise the issue and ask why the vast majority of others do - especially if you agree it is false, and harms the relationship between clubs, players and officials?

 

Finally, my point about many but not all lino's flagging hastily for offside, is that why, when they are paid and presumably trained to understand referee basics, do they flag for off-sides for someone not receiving the ball?

Edited May 15, 2013 by smellynuts

[A.nonymous]

Assessors are the main reason any referee changes their style. It happens across all levels of football.

[petethegreek]

Referees need to change their style as they progress through the levels as the style of football changes. Assessors look for different things depending on what level the Referee is at and what level he is trying to get to.

 

Referees should not change within the Competition because of an Assessors being present or absent from a game.

 

Referees should officiate all games as if an Assessor is there. This would give a greater consistency to their performance and at the same time the Club will know what to expect.

 

These Referees who do play for marks quickly get found out as there is a huge gap with their marks from the Assessors and the Clubs. 

 

As I have stated earlier, not changing your style from game to game definitely works be it in the middle or on the line. I set myself mini targets during the season regarding marks (top 5 Referees marks, top 3 Assessors marks) and see how close I can get. This keeps me focused and motivated. Even if I don't reach my targets I can at least say I tried my best. Hopefully that gets me another season on the SSML and not booted off.   

 

As for off sides, it's a fine art knowing when to raise the flag and when to keep it down.

 

To delay the flag for a second or two to see how play develops means you are more likely to make the correct decision.

 

Go early with the flag and then realize you have incorrectly penalized a player means you have made a mistake.

 

Delay and adopt a 'wait and see' policy means you have bought yourself a bit of thinking time to see what happens.

 

Go late and correct rather than early and wrong.

 

This is what Clubs and Assessors want.

[HKP]

I was always told, better a late flag than a wrong flag.

[smellynuts]

Referees need to change their style as they progress through the levels as the style of football changes. Assessors look for different things depending on what level the Referee is at and what level he is trying to get to.

 

Referees should not change within the Competition because of an Assessors being present or absent from a game.

 

Referees should officiate all games as if an Assessor is there. This would give a greater consistency to their performance and at the same time the Club will know what to expect.

 

These Referees who do play for marks quickly get found out as there is a huge gap with their marks from the Assessors and the Clubs. 

 

As I have stated earlier, not changing your style from game to game definitely works be it in the middle or on the line. I set myself mini targets during the season regarding marks (top 5 Referees marks, top 3 Assessors marks) and see how close I can get. This keeps me focused and motivated. Even if I don't reach my targets I can at least say I tried my best. Hopefully that gets me another season on the SSML and not booted off.   

 

As for off sides, it's a fine art knowing when to raise the flag and when to keep it down.

 

To delay the flag for a second or two to see how play develops means you are more likely to make the correct decision.

 

Go early with the flag and then realize you have incorrectly penalized a player means you have made a mistake.

 

Delay and adopt a 'wait and see' policy means you have bought yourself a bit of thinking time to see what happens.

 

Go late and correct rather than early and wrong.

 

This is what Clubs and Assessors want.

Well done PTG, should have been a politician, you have done a great job of avoiding a direct response to any question, agreeing with what I or you have already said and debating points that have not even been raised! Brilliant, cheers for that Mr Cameron!

[smellynuts]

I was always told, better a late flag than a wrong flag.

Which was exactly my point, " my point about many but not all lino's flagging hastily for offside "

Can't understand why we all know this apart from the many lino's at our level who are trained, paid, and should know better! 

[petethegreek]

Well done PTG, should have been a politician, you have done a great job of avoiding a direct response to any question, agreeing with what I or you have already said and debating points that have not even been raised! Brilliant, cheers for that Mr Cameron!

 

Ask a 'direct' question then.

[Munchkin]

Which was exactly my point, " my point about many but not all lino's flagging hastily for offside "

Can't understand why we all know this apart from the many lino's at our level who are trained, paid, and should know better!

Does that mean someone can't make a mistake?

[SG24]

To many games have Assessors present, and the impact that has on officials dishing out far more bookings and red cards.

In our case I believe we had over 75% of games being assessed, and at our level I cannot understand why the pressure or culture of referee's generally is to book players without any warnings for a none serious foul. In other words referee's tend to change the way they officiate when an assessor is present.

When you compare officials in the Football League, they will NEVER give out a booking without a warning first unless it is a serious infringement, so why do assessors not ask officials at our level to do the same - unless it is down to being a good revenue stream?

The minority of referee's at our level do give warnings, they tend to be the best, and everyone from managers to players are appreciative of this behaviour, and have no problem when a second offence leads to a card.

By the way, my team did have too many bookings due to ill discipline and mainly verbal. I am certainly not defending our record, and these comments are in no way related to this.

 

Why does a ref have to know he is being assessed?  If they feel under extra pressure because they are under the microscope, let them have the freedom to referee the game unhindered.  All refs are marked by the clubs, so perhaps 3 or 4 times a year by assessors would be sufficient, a little more if their club marks are consistently low.

[Uncle T]

Late flags have caused some injuries this season when two players have gone for the ball, goalkeepers and attackers, this happened several times. Most times it is obvious that the player is offside so flag for it, the referee can still play on.

 

Assessors cause clubs quite a few issues, the referee changes the way he referees, they go into the dressing rooms and stay too long and tell referees what to report and delay the referee and assistants getting their shower and food in the board room after the game. If there is an assessor at the game we are always waiting for them after the game and the away team committee often have left the ground.

 

The referee needs feedback on how he referees the game, he does not need a long list of what he does right or wrong and what to report from a league view.

[petethegreek]

Late flags have caused some injuries this season when two players have gone for the ball, goalkeepers and attackers, this happened several times. Most times it is obvious that the player is offside so flag for it, the referee can still play on.

 

Assessors cause clubs quite a few issues, the referee changes the way he referees, they go into the dressing rooms and stay too long and tell referees what to report and delay the referee and assistants getting their shower and food in the board room after the game. If there is an assessor at the game we are always waiting for them after the game and the away team committee often have left the ground.

 

The referee needs feedback on how he referees the game, he does not need a long list of what he does right or wrong and what to report from a league view.

 

Instructions on forward bearing down on goalkeeper when off side is to give an early flag to avoid collision.

 

Delaying a flag in this example is wrong.

 

Assessors have been instructed to be brief in their, er, debrief. 

[Rebadiah Hongfield]

I think there should be a SSML Awards night.

 

With the highest honour being the 'Tom Alabaster Award' for best all round player in the division.