lee bearman Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 We at cranfield have a meeting tonight about finance one of the possibilitys is coming out of the ssmfl and going into local Bedfordshire football that is what some believe would save money there are obviously other things that we could cut back on.How do some clubs waste money on players at this level every year and win nothing?The club have never paid a penny to players and won't or can't for the foreseeable future and we have no sponsors for players.I pay a few train fares and petrol money out of my own pocket now and again like most managers probably so something has to give.Our chairman and treasurer are stepping down at the end of the season so that will be more change.We have nice facilities and pitch and that's what the money goes on its a shame that some places we go to the facilities are awfull yet they pay players.For us it's about the club as a whole and not winning a league at the moment by paying people.It will be a shame if we do drop out of the league as I have despite my apparently aggressive banter met some nice people at all the clubs I've taken my team to.Im sure its as hard at most clubs in the current climate but cranfield dropping out would be a shame ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neutral Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 It would be a shame, it is indeed hard times. However, you need a strong committee behind you if you want to survive/improve, Cranfield will always have a problem untill the football club is stand alone from the social club. As for what you allocate your resources on that's a tough one. quick success through paying players, or slow sustained growth through investing in the club and it's facilities. Look at Aylesbury now- they've struck the right balance, there's no rush. No point changing ground or paying players crazy amounts to get promoted if it's simply going to fall short! All the best Lee, and for what it's worth- your pitch and facilites I feel are sublime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballMK Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Lee, how much does Cranfield charge for admission? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COYS Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 It would be a shame to see a club leave the SSML is there that much difference in money then compared to other leagues? Have to say not many people would put their hands in their own pocket to help players out when the club won't even do it so fair play to you for that. I agree it's mad some teams who can't climb the ladder are paying out for players when they should spend that money on getting the ground up to the right standard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garden City Fan Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I hope Cranfield stay based upon those comments. It is tough whatever league a club plays in, there is hardly a day goes by without some horror story coming out. For me, the answer lies in the community. If the local community wants a football club then they need to support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mayor Of Simpleton Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Good luck to Cranfield. When money can be found for clubs being relegated out of the Premier League (£23 million!) surely more money should filter down to clubs like Cranfield where they can plan to build for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee bearman Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 Furtho I think it's £4.Cheers coys I've paid a few quid out of my pocket since I've been there would be great if the club were in a position to offer me anything to be fair.With people I know and a little from myself I could probably match upto about 500 a week but there is no way me and some friends will put 500 a week in if no one else will.The main savings in dropping out of the league is officials fees around 2500 a season would be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee bearman Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 Thanks mayor,and garden city fan well done recently to your team excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck1 Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 This is an issue that affects all football teams, professional or otherwise (In the 17 years of the Premier League almost a half of all the 92 League clubs have gone into administration.) I think the issue is that all football clubs are working on an outdated business model. Gate money never covers the costs of running the club, even if you dont pay players, and most clubs won't make enough from their bar/function facilities to generate the additional revenue required. You only have to look at the number of pubs closing down to realise that you aren't going to get enough people using the club bar. Most towns also have a number of venues offering function facilities and operate these on a professional business basis which clubs will find hard to compete with. You have to ask the question of whether it's viable any longer for clubs to own their own grounds if the costs outweigh the income. Local multi sports use stadiums with artificial pitches that clubs could hire on a pay as you play basis would provide a more stable financial footing for the clubs to grow on the playing side. One of the advantages we have from our current groundshare arrangement is having a clear fixed picture of our costs for the season. We dont have to worry about ground maintenance, rates, utility bills and unexpected costs such as floodlight repairs etc. The only issue we have is that we are having to groundshare away from our home town which naturally curtails the numbers of people who come and watch us (even though are gates are still very healthy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee bearman Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 There is nothing like having your own ground though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballMK Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Lee, thanks for the information. I'm pretty new to SSML football and have over the last few months visited a handful of grounds close to me in Milton Keynes. One thing that's surprised me is the variation in practice when it comes to paying for admission. While I think clubs need to be careful about the exact amount they charge, as a spin-off to the insane cost of attending league football, I definitely think that people attending SSML matches should pay *something* for the privilege -- and in my experience, this isn't always the case. To me, even if a club doesn't have a turnstile, they surely can send round someone with a bucket asking people either for a set amount or a suggested donation. Even if they only get £10 or £20, that's cash the club otherwise wouldn't have. People attending SSML games must know that there are costs associated with running a football club and in general terms I think if they can be bothered to go to a match, they're not likely to object to paying a reasonable admission charge. In fact I don't see why supporters aren't encouraged to buy things like club membership of some description, or to purchase season tickets. But whatever the detail of such schemes, the main point is that people going to games should expect to support a club with cash -- because if they're not prepared to fork out, who will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savagebee Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 We at cranfield have a meeting tonight about finance one of the possibilitys is coming out of the ssmfl and going into local Bedfordshire football that is what some believe would save money there are obviously other things that we could cut back on.How do some clubs waste money on players at this level every year and win nothing?The club have never paid a penny to players and won't or can't for the foreseeable future and we have no sponsors for players.I pay a few train fares and petrol money out of my own pocket now and again like most managers probably so something has to give.Our chairman and treasurer are stepping down at the end of the season so that will be more change.We have nice facilities and pitch and that's what the money goes on its a shame that some places we go to the facilities are awfull yet they pay players.For us it's about the club as a whole and not winning a league at the moment by paying people.It will be a shame if we do drop out of the league as I have despite my apparently aggressive banter met some nice people at all the clubs I've taken my team to.Im sure its as hard at most clubs in the current climate but cranfield dropping out would be a shame ? Hope Cranfield United sort things out and dont drop out the league these are indeed very tough times for non league football clubs and lots of league clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.nonymous Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 When I was at Chalfont Wasps in the Hellenic Div 1 East, the manager tried to start paying players out of "sponsorship" money. Worked for all of about 2 weeks, as the money was never there. Stupid really. I think you have to look at teams like Oxhey Jets and how well they have done without a budget as such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RendonBodgers Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I pay a few train fares and petrol money out of my own pocket now and again like most managers probably so something has to give. Massive fair play to you for that. Only ever seen that once before from Terry Hows doing it for some of he's younger players in tough times at sun and tringarmy will back me up on what a top me he is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RendonBodgers Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I think you have to look at teams like Oxhey Jets and how well they have done without a budget as such Dont believe the press you read , certain players in that side get looked after better than the DTFC chaps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garden City Fan Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Lee, thanks for the information. I'm pretty new to SSML football and have over the last few months visited a handful of grounds close to me in Milton Keynes. One thing that's surprised me is the variation in practice when it comes to paying for admission. While I think clubs need to be careful about the exact amount they charge, as a spin-off to the insane cost of attending league football, I definitely think that people attending SSML matches should pay *something* for the privilege -- and in my experience, this isn't always the case. To me, even if a club doesn't have a turnstile, they surely can send round someone with a bucket asking people either for a set amount or a suggested donation. Even if they only get £10 or £20, that's cash the club otherwise wouldn't have. People attending SSML games must know that there are costs associated with running a football club and in general terms I think if they can be bothered to go to a match, they're not likely to object to paying a reasonable admission charge. In fact I don't see why supporters aren't encouraged to buy things like club membership of some description, or to purchase season tickets. But whatever the detail of such schemes, the main point is that people going to games should expect to support a club with cash -- because if they're not prepared to fork out, who will? Well, I attend WGC fairly regularly and there is a gate and the charge is £5 which includes the programme. There is also an opportunity to pay £10 for annual membership and I think £50 which then includes entry to all the games. The club house bar is always quite vibrant with tv and a kitchen offering hot and cold food. I have also paid £6 at Colney Heath which has excellent club house facilities and the same at Hertford Town which has a lovely old ground even if the club house is a bit bereft of atmosphere. It's there I think but there is precious little coverage in the local press and I see almost no kids there at all. To be honest I am tempted to get involved as the club, WGC, is run by volunteers who are seem very nice people and are quite committed. I had dinner with a local football scout and ex manager on the local football scene which was enlightening but it is obvious that there is quite a vibrant non league scene. Perhaps, as fans, we should put some time into supporting our local clubs on non match days if we want to ensure that this community asset survives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenduck Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 When I was at Chalfont Wasps in the Hellenic Div 1 East, the manager tried to start paying players out of "sponsorship" money. Worked for all of about 2 weeks, as the money was never there. Stupid really. I think you have to look at teams like Oxhey Jets and how well they have done without a budget as such Was that Martin Stone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tringarmy Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Finances for clubs are tough all round at the moment and very few at our level have the perfect model. We just have to make the best of what we have. At Tring we are out of the way for any local / passing / town trade so to get back a strong "social" side would be great for us. We only really open up these days for matches or private hire. We used to open in our Miswell Lane days for things like Monday Night Football or the World Cup / Euros qualifiers but given the domestic take up of Sky in the last 10 or so years or BBC / ITV coverage and our new location meaning someone has to drive, it wasn't worth continuing. In other cases the bar / social income doesn't find it's way to support the team such as Hillingdon, Sun Sports & WGC. The likes of Aylesbury are paying out for a groundshare & get good gates but I'd assume little or no percentage of bar profits from the sharing arrangements. The majority of teams sharing in the SSML must barely cover their outlay from gate monies alone even before you start shelling out £100-£150 on match officials, kit, equipment etc etc. There are also those that want to progress but are unable due to ground grading either on affordability or planning. Quite a few of the Division 2 clubs are on public space which makes it difficult to charge any admission or develop. We also then have clubs sharing their space with cricket (Hoddy, Pitstone etc) which is certian to lead to tensions over income, costs, pitch / ground maintenace etc. The issue of finances hardly goes away rising through the pyramid. Step 4 means investment in the ground, plus increased costs for those covering players travel expenses, Step 3 regions increase even further and at Step 2 Bishop Stortford is considered as "in the North" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tringarmy Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Back to the start of the topic, what would be right for Cranfield? Only those close to the club can answer that question. Of couse dropping to say the Beds County League will reduce costs. For a start it would be a dozen or so less league games (15 clubs compared to 21 / 22, you probably not have to use the floodlights more than once or twice, but on the flip side you'd also lose gate receipts and bar income. The club would almost certainly lose some players not wanting to drop down. Less chance of getting in the Vase at Step 7 and no chance of the FA Cup which can be great revenue generators with just 2 or 3 wins in the early rounds. Cranfield has a great set up and it would be a shame for it to drop out of the SSML. WGC fan, yes get involved in your local club. It need thousands of people around the country to do the same on whatever level they would wish to be involved. From doing a stint on the gate, selling a football card/ raffle tickets to throwing yourself in head first to coaching / admin etc, a local club somewhere will be grateful for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smellynuts Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Listen, all sarcasm aside, Cranfield have plenty of success and history to boast about. Times are tough for all, and the way these clowns are running the country then things are likely to get far worse. This means getting the vital sponsorship deal is going to be even tougher, and it also means that potentially fewer supporters wll come thru the gate and/or buy beer if you are lucky enough to have your own bar. Personally at AFC we are fortunate to have a youth structure with around 30 teams involved, so we as a club manage to overall make a profit, but it is tough out there no doubt. I hope for the reasons stated earlier, and the potential loss of a great facility for the SSML that you manage to keep going, so good luck Mr B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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