Referees.

[Smudge]

Can someone explain to me,how younger,fitter,ambitious Refs,are meant to progress to the next level, if as seems the case,in CCL 1,when older,unfit,overweight Refs,get more games.Some of which have had 4 games in 2 months,whilst the younger ones,have only had 1 game,in the same period.Enough I would suggest to give them thoughts,of giving up.Give youth a chance,the way forward in my opinion.

[Gluck_ab]

Smudge

 

Referees doing games on the CCL Division 1 and Reserve Divisions are predominantly Level 5 (Senior County) referees many of whom may have come down to that level having been at a higher level previously, may have reached that level and do not wish to progress further due to the additional demands at the next level, or may be at that level wishing to progress to the next level, Level 4 (Supply League) referee. On that basis there is likely to be a mix of age, experience and motivation amongst these individuals and the role of the League Referee’s Secretary is to manage the large pool registered with the CCL at this level in terms of giving them sufficient games either in the middle or on the line. As far as I recall, you cannot be a Level 5 referee in the CCL without also being available to act as an Assistant Referee (AR) in the Premier Division too. In addition, you need to factor in differing levels of availability too.

 

Don’t quote me but I believe there are retention criteria in place for Level 5 refs on the CCL (banding position based on club marks received) but there is no annual fitness test required to be passed at this level. Those wishing to progress from Level 5 to Level 4 are assessed in accordance with the FA criteria for promotion (passing a fitness test, having a set number of assessments undertaken and receiving marks above a certain level being the main criteria) and subsequently if they meet those then they will be considered for promotion to that level. Mewcenary is going through this process currently and will be able to give more detail of all the requirements

 

I would question your assertion that some referees get 4 games in two months (or 2 games per month) at the expense of others who may only 1 game because, as I have stated previously, there are a number of factors that might make it appear that some get more or less than others. There is a very large pool of L5 referees registered with the CCL and from that all Division 1 and Reserve games must be covered plus a number of AR appointments made too on many of these and Premier Division games, and ‘spares’ will be required for those who drop out at short notice. Additionally, referees may also get County Cup appointments which count for assessment purposes too.

 

Alternatively, a L5 referee can also register with the Surrey Elite League (SEL) or Surrey County Intermediate League West (SCILW) (or equivalent depending on where they are based) to increase the chances of getting more games for which they are qualified, and promotion can be achieved through refereeing on these leagues too. From personal experience that is the route I took – including not reffing in at least one weekend every month (a practice I maintain now), I alternated the remaining Saturdays by reffing in the aforementioned leagues and acting as an AR in the CCL. This route saw me achieve promotion from Level 6 to 4 in one season and straight onto the CCL Premier Division.

 

In the CCL, Premier Division games are refereed by Level 4 refs and the average number of games is 2 per month as the Contributory Leagues (Isthmian and Southern) take precedence in terms of first choice of those available L4s to act as ARs in these games.

 

As an aide memoire the following is worth noting:

 

Level 5 referee – Senior County referee – middles on CCL 1, SEL, SCILW or equivalent, AR on CCL Premier Division / Division 1 games.

Level 4 referee – Supply League referee – middles on CCL Premier Division or equivalent, AR on Contributory League (Isthmian or Southern Leagues) games.

Level 3 referee – Contributory League referee – middles on Contributory Leagues or equivalent, AR on Conference South games or, based on performance, on Conference National games.

[Mewcenary]

As Gluck_ab mentions, I've been going through a promotion attempt over the last marking season (March 2012 to March 2013) with a view to obtaining level 4, which would allow me to referee on the Premier.

 

On average, I would say I got 1 and _maybe_ 2 games per month on CCFL Division 1 or Reserves. That seems fairly typical due to the number of referees on the list.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that, where possible, referees are kept on games that have been postponed. So a referee with a sudden rush of games may have them because they are postponed games from earlier in the season.

 

In terms of the promotion requirements for referees aspiring for the higher level, 15 games must be completed (do not have to be on CCFL). Five games must be assessed, and these are typically done on the CCFL (or Suburban) so that the referee can be seen in action with neutral assistants. Appropriate county cup games also count, and generally referees on this track are given games as a good test. For example: I've had lines on the Surrey Senior cup, and middles on the Surrey Premier cup. That's all about preparing for the next level too, as a referee who is level 4 MUST also act as an assistant referee on contrib games.

 

A level 5 going for promotion can top up their games any way they like: Glub_ab has already mentioned some example leagues. Obviously those don't feature neutral assistants but it is still good experience.

 

Waiting game for me now!

 

With regard to retention: It's standard at level 4 for referees to be promoted or demoted based on their performance, as shown by assessment and club marks. A similar system has now been brought in for those level 5s on Div 1 / Reserves, albeit based on club marks only. Essentially, based on the exact criteria, the league could remove referees from the list if they are repeatedly appearing in the bottom club mark band.

[Big J R]

All the best for the future, Trris.

[VPCTFC]

I've had lines on the Surrey Senior cup, and middles on the Surrey Premier cup. That's all about preparing for the next level too, as a referee who is level 4 MUST also act as an assistant referee on contrib games.

 

Is it still the case that when a club plays a higher ranked club, for instance in the County Cup or FA competitions, the ref must be at least the level to officiate in the higher club's league? And what about assistant refs?

EG - if Ash, Egham, Camberley, anyone play AFC Wimbledon in the Surrey Senior Cup do the officials have to be football league refs and linos? (I'm not getting into whether the Dons put out a reserve team or not).

[sparky100]

The referee would be a football league referee but the assistants dont have to be.

[Smudge]

Thanks for the info chaps,was a pleasure last night to see 4 younger Officials,fit,lean,alert,plying their trade as a Team,where they were in sync with each other,in the Surrey Premier Final.This means by Gluck's response that they are thought of highly,by the Clubs,Surrey F.A.,Whilst no one gets every decision right,they were in my eyes a Team.Whilst it is well known by regular CCL watchers that Mr.J. Cressick will surely soon be promoted a level,because thats what he deserves,the other 2 Assistants should be given more games on CCL 1,if at all possible.Mewcenary well done last night,you had a great game mate.

[Mewcenary]

Cheers Smudge - that's appreciated. It was a very enjoyable game to be involved with, and of course an honour to be appointed in the first place.

 

Don't forget the Reserve Referee (Mr G Read). He normally plies his trade on the Suburban so based on the appointment, that would indicate he is also in the running for promotion.

[Footy Mad]

Cheers Smudge - that's appreciated. It was a very enjoyable game to be involved with, and of course an honour to be appointed in the first place.

 

Don't forget the Reserve Referee (Mr G Read). He normally plies his trade on the Suburban so based on the appointment, that would indicate he is also in the running for promotion.

 

When do promotion candidates find out if they have been successful?

[Mr Fixit]

I am not sure anyone has the balance right. In the past few years a number of young referees appear to have been fast tracked when they are not up to it. I have seen highly charged games with young aspiring referees out of their depth and to me the selection of fixtures is crucial to their development.

 

I would like to see a better planning process although the recent bad weather would kill any planning exercise. When I watch a game I want to see the best referee not worried about his age or his development, but I guess thats a lot of the problem !!

[Mewcenary]

When do promotion candidates find out if they have been successful?

 

For those going to level 4, based on recent years, letters drop on doormats around 1st May. Level 3s would be prior to that. I think!

[Windsor_Sec]

I am not sure anyone has the balance right. In the past few years a number of young referees appear to have been fast tracked when they are not up to it. I have seen highly charged games with young aspiring referees out of their depth and to me the selection of fixtures is crucial to their development.

 

I would like to see a better planning process although the recent bad weather would kill any planning exercise. When I watch a game I want to see the best referee not worried about his age or his development, but I guess thats a lot of the problem !!

 

I think you are pretty much spot on with your views Mr Fixit. The only thing I would add is that referees are appointed to what are perceived to be the more important games based on their marks to date so in reality the best games get the best refs but there is the element of fast-tracking as well which most would agree doesn't necessarily work as most of the up-and-coming youngsters seem to be Graham Poll clones who view the game as being about them and not the teams taking part ! All is not doom and gloom though as since the age-discrimination laws were passed we've seen refs like Jim Paterson re-promoted through the ranks and I would guess that Isaac Jempeji who was a Level 3 but had some time out will make the jump back up again this season based on his performances. This will seem an obvious statement but the difference between the 20+ and 30+ years old referees normally boils down to man-management skills or experience as a whole and no matter how good you are at a young age that extensive match experience to me is a vital factor in the shaping of a good referee.

[Krooner]

I think you are pretty much spot on with your views Mr Fixit. The only thing I would add is that referees are appointed to what are perceived to be the more important games based on their marks to date so in reality the best games get the best refs but there is the element of fast-tracking as well which most would agree doesn't necessarily work as most of the up-and-coming youngsters seem to be Graham Poll clones who view the game as being about them and not the teams taking part ! All is not doom and gloom though as since the age-discrimination laws were passed we've seen refs like Jim Paterson re-promoted through the ranks and I would guess that Isaac Jempeji who was a Level 3 but had some time out will make the jump back up again this season based on his performances. This will seem an obvious statement but the difference between the 20+ and 30+ years old referees normally boils down to man-management skills or experience as a whole and no matter how good you are at a young age that extensive match experience to me is a vital factor in the shaping of a good referee.

 

All great stuff. One of the biggest problems for me is the "sell" to younger refs. They are almost told they will make it as a Prem ref when we all know there are only 20 (I think) for each season. this raises expectations which can soon be dashed. I have seen some refs at a young age who should be pushed through and others that take a little longer. there doesnt seem to be, although I may be wrong, a system in place to work out who is ready and who isnt. What must be sold to them, in my opinion, is the fact that they should work hard and try to get to th best possible level that their ability can take them, same as a player. I enjoyed my time at Level 5 but do I think I had the ability to be a Level 4. Maybe but I can say I dont think I would have been up to Level 3. Lets get a little more realistic with htese lads and if Level 4 is their ceiling so be it and it is still something to be proud of.

[sparky100]

Thanks for the info chaps,was a pleasure last night to see 4 younger Officials,fit,lean,alert,plying their trade as a Team,where they were in sync with each other,in the Surrey Premier Final.This means by Gluck's response that they are thought of highly,by the Clubs,Surrey F.A.,Whilst no one gets every decision right,they were in my eyes a Team.Whilst it is well known by regular CCL watchers that Mr.J. Cressick will surely soon be promoted a level,because thats what he deserves,the other 2 Assistants should be given more games on CCL 1,if at all possible.Mewcenary well done last night,you had a great game mate.

 

He had a very good game in Guernsey on Sunday.

[Mr Fixit]

All great stuff. One of the biggest problems for me is the "sell" to younger refs. They are almost told they will make it as a Prem ref when we all know there are only 20 (I think) for each season. this raises expectations which can soon be dashed. I have seen some refs at a young age who should be pushed through and others that take a little longer. there doesnt seem to be, although I may be wrong, a system in place to work out who is ready and who isnt. What must be sold to them, in my opinion, is the fact that they should work hard and try to get to th best possible level that their ability can take them, same as a player. I enjoyed my time at Level 5 but do I think I had the ability to be a Level 4. Maybe but I can say I dont think I would have been up to Level 3. Lets get a little more realistic with htese lads and if Level 4 is their ceiling so be it and it is still something to be proud of.

 

I think your right re man management skills. The inability to talk to players and take the sting of the situation is the biggest issues with young referees. I dont think problems normally exist around decision making, but mainly the ability to communicate effectively.The only way to improve this is experience I guess, but don't put young referees in games that are likely to be firey or volatile, but don't wrap them in kid gloves either.

[Picto Cotts]

Don't think Messers Creswick & Read will be level 4 referees for much longer. Destined to ply their trade further up the refereeing pyramid.