Saturday 16th Feb

[Ex EL_Gaffer]

 

 

Shows that many postponements are nothing to do with player safety. A pitch is either unsafe or it's not. How many games there are to be played shouldn't affect the ref's thinking at all.

 

The FA and counties do issue guidance to refs. Most of it seems to be ignored at our level. The worst cases are the ones where an early inspection has passed the pitch as playable but the match ref changes the decision. According to the FA this should only happen if there's been a sudden change in the weather. There was a case recently when Billericay got an official who's on the line in the Premier League to do the early inspection - he said the pitch was ok but the match ref, a couple of tiers below him in the referee's rankings, said it was unfit.

If you look at step 4 and above they don't seem to have the same backlog of fixtures this season. I've long been of the opinion that refs at that level are more inclined to play games than those at our level. Look at December 26th. The CCL Premier had one game played, the Isthmian 1(S) had ten.

 

Thing is though VPTFC the majority of Ryman pitches will be better standard than the CCL pitches, like they will be as you go up the pyramid

[VPCTFC]

Referees/Managers/Players/Supporters/ClubOfficials have different opinions and around this level it's all done for the 'love of the game' so just accept decisions that are made and get on with it.........there's certainly more to life than moaning about football!

 

If the refs are doing it for the love of the game why do we still have to pay them if the game's not on? How many of them refuse to take the money?

[Ex EL_Gaffer]

 

 

If the refs are doing it for the love of the game why do we still have to pay them if the game's not on? How many of them refuse to take the money?

 

Do you have to pay them full match fee for turning up only for game to be called off? I suppose it's up to the individuals concerned but don't blame the refs, they don't make the rules! When was at Banstead and I had refs down for pitch inspections I think the rule was you had to give them some expenses for coming down to assess pitch........some took it some didn't but if they did take it I never begrudged them for it. A couple of times I've turned up this season to ref a Sunday game and the pitch was unsuitable. I never took the half match fee I was due but if other refs did for similar scenarios then I won't knock them!

 

And if you really think officials do it all for money at this level then it's DEFINITELY really not worth the small amount it comes down to!

Edited February 17, 2013 by Ex EL_Gaffer

[VPCTFC]

Fair play to refs that don't take the money - you can say they are doing it for the love of the game, the others, you can't.

Many people spend thousands of pounds and hundreds of hours of their time a year running clubs and leagues without expecting to get expenses. That's the way it should be at this level but a postponed game can cost the home club a couple of hundred quid - officials, programmes, food for players etc.

Clubs at lower levels are folding like there's no tomorrow due to the expense of putting on a game of football. Entire leagues are folding in some parts of the country due to a lack of teams. Remember a few years ago when they were saying there was a lack of officials? Now the FA are saying there's a lack of male 11-a-side clubs in the country and are looking at ways of reversing the trend. This isn't entirely the fault of officials but they're just another cost that's driving park sides to the wall. I await the first league that has refs doing games for free, 'for the love of the game' just to ease the burden on people in the pay to play levels who just want to play football on a Saturday or Sunday.

[Ex EL_Gaffer]

I understand what you're saying and I've been involved at various levels as manager, assistant, player, official, assistant ref, referee at different levels of football and like majority of things in life it all comes down to money in my opinion.

 

It's not just refs fees that might have increased, it'll be pitch fees, kit, balls, bibs, cones, league fees, cup fees which will ultimately be passed on to players when they pay their subs. Ok players subs not so much at Saturday Senior football but then you have those expenses plus rent, rates etc so a refs fee is just a small amount. Theres also the added thing of so many other things for players do nowadays outside of football and lot of people have/want to work wknds now to earn money to live

 

I've only been a qualified ref just over a year now and I can honestly say I've considered jacking it in already plenty of times and that's all down to players attitudes..........and I see myself as quite laid back with a very good understanding of what players/managers/clubs go through nowadays in football!

Edited February 17, 2013 by Ex EL_Gaffer

[Krooner]

Wow a great debate.

 

Should the Ash v Egham game have been called off ? No bloody idea cos I wasnt there and didnt see the pitch.

 

Have Ash or Egham ever got a local ref to call a game off to protect their pitch. Almost certainly. Cant have it both ways now can we ?

 

VP will talk through our friends from Farnborough and they will not be the only one. Played on their pitch on Tuesday and called their reserve game off against us on Wednesday ! How many teams call their youth games off to protect the pitch for their 1st team. If you dont want games played on it then dont enter the leagues.

 

I tend to agree with everything that is said. I can remember doing a game when IMO the pitch was 50/50. Both clubs were desperate to play and I actually took some time to make a decision. Decided to play the game in the end. The losing teams manager went mad at me after the game calling me a disgrace for allowing the game to go on and it had cost his team. I could not have won there now could I. Both refs and clubs need to man up over this issue.

 

On fees I only ever took 1 fee when I drove in snow to a game having called the home club on around 5 occasions to check the pitch would be ok and told it would. Got there and funny enough there was 3 inches of snow on the pitch. So too bloody right I took the fee. Other than that I never took any money for doing a pitch inspection or for a postponed game.

[Flint700]

I don't think you can blame the officials for taking their expences and fee if the clubs and leagues have agreed the figures before the season starts. After witnessing yesterdays abuse of the officials from the first minute to the last by both teams, but it has to be said the oppositioon were in the premiership when it came to the abuse, saying that the ref did not have his best afternoon with a few iffy decisions not with standing the sending off was correct. It is little wonder that Ex El Gaf is considering packing it in, and very few young officials are keen to make their way through the pyramid. We could end up with no assistant refs just as we did in our Surburban league game a couple of weeks ago when our keeper coach and the opponents coach had to run the line as no assistant refs turned up. Come on lets try and get together as Managers, Coaches and Supporters to try and get through to these young lads that abusing the officials does no one any good in the long run

[4-5-1]

Great footage TRS.

[Manors]

Yesterday we had a 4th Official at the Camberley v South Park match, as his 'match' was off and he he was available.No fee was taken and he had a busy afternoon, but he wanted to support local football.

[Mewcenary]

Lammas v Frimley

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLY3bO4SALY

 

Cheers Trevor! Match incident at 9m25s is an interesting one...

[TRS]

Thanks 4-5-1.

[Picto Cotts]

We'd be having a very different conversation had a player been seriously injured due to the unfit state of that particular part of the pitch.

[bobuk]

We'd be having a very different conversation had a player been seriously injured due to the unfit state of that particular part of the pitch.

 

Injuries is an easy way out for refs. From what's read on here both sides are saying there was no problem therefore there wouldn't be a conversation about an injury. There was a player seriously injured at Uxbridge after 6 minutes there's no talk about the pitch playing a part there and that survived an inspection.

[The Wall]

I watched the Camberley game and think the behaviour of the South Park players and officials was a disgrace, although Camberley were no angels. South Park I understand that it was 6 yellows 1 red, 1 officials removed dring the game and one reported after the game. Also the man send off will be in further trouble for abuse of the referee as he left the pitch at half time. To add to things there was a scuffle between the managers at half time made worse by the intervention of the Camberley managers brother. Camberley had 4 yellows(?).

 

I thought the officials were OK the referee tried to allow the game to flow but had to change his approach very soon into the game and pick up on nonsense from both sides. I am glad we had an experienced referee as he kept his cool and kept some order to the game. It is games like this that give footballl abad name and i really hope the League throw the book at South Park.

 

If this carries on we will have no one who wants to officiate our games !!!

[JDSPFC]

I watched the Camberley game and think the behaviour of the South Park players and officials was a disgrace, although Camberley were no angels. South Park I understand that it was 6 yellows 1 red, 1 officials removed dring the game and one reported after the game. Also the man send off will be in further trouble for abuse of the referee as he left the pitch at half time. To add to things there was a scuffle between the managers at half time made worse by the intervention of the Camberley managers brother. Camberley had 4 yellows(?).

 

I thought the officials were OK the referee tried to allow the game to flow but had to change his approach very soon into the game and pick up on nonsense from both sides. I am glad we had an experienced referee as he kept his cool and kept some order to the game. It is games like this that give footballl abad name and i really hope the League throw the book at South Park.

 

If this carries on we will have no one who wants to officiate our games !!!

 

I admit that the behaviour of our player (myself included) and officials probably wasn't the best but when your playing in a game with 10 men and you feel the ref is giving everything against you it's is very frustrating (in sure if you have played football you can empathise with that). And as Kroons said there were at least two blatant game changing incident with the penalty appeal and high foot leading up to the goal.

 

The camberley managers behaviour was no better than ours; played his part in the half time incident, I believe his reaction was the reason our player was sent off an throwing the ball away when we were trying to take throw ins!

 

To the sending off I think it looked a lot worse then it was and te camberley bench reaction helped make the refs decision. Our player rightly said it was the camberley player who slid in and he just carried on running through, no stamping or kicking. Should he just jump out the way? However te ref could have pulled up at least 3 fouls leading up to that incident but chose not to.

 

Taking nothing away from camberley they probably deserve the points t the end of the day and we didn't play well. But I disagree with earlier comments saying we turned up expecting to win. We take every and seriously but sat was just an off day (every team has them)

 

Best of luck to camberley or the season

[BAD GUY]

Do you have to pay them full match fee for turning up only for game to be called off? I suppose it's up to the individuals concerned but don't blame the refs, they don't make the rules! When was at Banstead and I had refs down for pitch inspections I think the rule was you had to give them some expenses for coming down to assess pitch........some took it some didn't but if they did take it I never begrudged them for it. A couple of times I've turned up this season to ref a Sunday game and the pitch was unsuitable. I never took the half match fee I was due but if other refs did for similar scenarios then I won't knock them!

 

And if you really think officials do it all for money at this level then it's DEFINITELY really not worth the small amount it comes down to!

 

El Gaff talking of Banstead. Their game was postponed on Saturday, one of a few. Having visited Banstead on a few occasions, albeit everytime being freezing cold and windy ! The pitch normally looks decent being high up, so t wonder from your experience where abouts on the pitch it gets so bad to call the game off Saturday ?

 

Also El Gaff whats your taking on the demise of Banstead and why in your honest opinion? They finished bottom of the CCL Prem last season so subsequently relegated to CCL Div 1 where now they are fighting another relegation battle which for a decent club with good football and club facilities would be a complete disaster for them having Back-to-Back relegation into Step 7.

 

What was all the talk I heard when I last visited about 3G pitches, any idea if they have they.will materiaised - perhaps any Banstead forumite can off their opinion as well?

 

Am I right also in hearing the rumour that Banstead manager has been sacked ?

[Krooner]

I admit that the behaviour of our player (myself included) and officials probably wasn't the best but when your playing in a game with 10 men and you feel the ref is giving everything against you it's is very frustrating (in sure if you have played football you can empathise with that). And as Kroons said there were at least two blatant game changing incident with the penalty appeal and high foot leading up to the goal.

 

The camberley managers behaviour was no better than ours; played his part in the half time incident, I believe his reaction was the reason our player was sent off an throwing the ball away when we were trying to take throw ins!

 

To the sending off I think it looked a lot worse then it was and te camberley bench reaction helped make the refs decision. Our player rightly said it was the camberley player who slid in and he just carried on running through, no stamping or kicking. Should he just jump out the way? However te ref could have pulled up at least 3 fouls leading up to that incident but chose not to.

 

Taking nothing away from camberley they probably deserve the points t the end of the day and we didn't play well. But I disagree with earlier comments saying we turned up expecting to win. We take every and seriously but sat was just an off day (every team has them)

 

Best of luck to camberley or the season

 

And to South Park as I like them as a club as they have built themselves up the right way. I think we will agree to disagree on the sending off as I thought red straight away and the guy did let himself and his club down with his actions at half time.

 

Which number were you JD ?

[JDSPFC]

 

 

And to South Park as I like them as a club as they have built themselves up the right way. I think we will agree to disagree on the sending off as I thought red straight away and the guy did let himself and his club down with his actions at half time.

 

Which number were you JD ?

 

Number 3 Kroons.

[E&E Rich]

Interesting reading that the Camberley v South Park ref tried to let the game flow. We had the complete opposite on Saturday.

 

In the dictionary, under "fussy" and under "pedantic" you'll find a picture of our referee. He could not stop blowing his whistle. Anyone who has seen Horley or Epsom will know that they like to play a bit of football, yet every time two players got together the ref decided to stop the play.

 

This of course had a knock-on effect because both sets of players then understandably appealed twice as much as they usually would. The strangest thing was that despite blowing constantly, he missed all three of the bad fouls in the first half, one from their guy who fractured our player's cheek bone, one from one of our players who stamped "not my words, people in the stand with a better angle" on one of theirs, and a late foul on one of our players just before HT when he cleared the ball for a corner and was sent flying for his troubles.

 

It was the sort of performance that had you wondering where the assessor was sitting. It also made for a niggly and bitty first half with a great goal for us and a deserved equaliser for them moments later. The second half could have gone wrong at the start but our keeper produced a fantastic save and we were on top from then on. One of our best players hadn't started due to a bit of flu but when he came on midway through the game we took control, scored a third goal with 18 left and everyone knew it was game over.

 

Our final goal summed up the official's performance though. There was dissent everywhere from the Horley players who had just had a player sent off for his second yellow card for dissent, yet despite being off and over the fence the referee wanted him to wander about thirty yards down the touchline before restarting play. We got a penalty moments later and although the keeper was quite clear that he had made no contact, our player tried and just managed to stay on his feet but was wide by then so the ref gave it. Interestingly though last year at Horley our keeper was sent off for a last man challenge. Consistency?

 

In summary, I was very impressed by our resiliency as Horley matched us in the first half but living with us over the full 90 minutes is difficult right now. We kept going and found a way to score as we seem to do. 4-1 was harsh on them, but I don't think they deserved a point on the second half performance. Also after about 15-20 years of watching Ian Chatfield constantly deny us in goal for various sides, he actually made a mistake this week, which led to our second goal. About time he made one against us!

[Krooner]

Number 3 Kroons.

 

You started it all with that challenge in the 1st minute which the AR gave after a little delay I am blaming you