Acadamies at Non League Level.

[Smudge]

Being the enquiring person I am, I have noticed over the past few years,The growth of Acadamies at Non League Level.In the Croydon area alone,Croydon Athletic had one before they folded,which has now switched to the Whyteleafe Academy,all be it run by the same person,at the same College.I have noticed Redhill are hoping to form a new Academy in 2013,linking itself to Coulsdon College.This baffles me,what is in it for the Clubs involved,Prestige?Surely most decent Players at age 16,have been snapped up by Professional Clubs before this,who pays for the Academies?Are coaches paid and by whom?Just say you found a gem,would the temptation not be to pass the player onto a Pro Club,for reward,maybe the people who run these Academies at Non League Level are Scouts for Pro Clubs already.What does the Club get out of this,as over the years,have not noticed any Academy Stars playing for Croydon Athletic or more recently Whyteleafe.Are there any CCL Clubs with an Academy.If Croydon Athletic and now Whyteleafe, are bench marks for success,it does not augur well for the Non League game.Maybe these acadamies just need a pitch to play on for FREE,just like UKFF,others get the reward,not the Clubs involved.ANY THOUGHTS?

[Krooner]

It is mostly to do with our education system currently wishing to run courses for people whom exams are not ncecessarily the best way forward. Vocational courses I believe they are. Lots of them around not only football courses.

[Big J R]

Very well put, Kroons, and you didn't mention the word 'THICK' once !!

 

[Luke]

Strange you should ask because last year I tried to set up an academy for Mole Valley SCR with a college in the Croydon area. Everything was in place, then at the last minute a bigger Non League Club come and the college went with them because of their facilties.

How it works - You apply for funding via your base college through the 'Learning Skills council'. It may have changed now but last year it came to £3,500 per student. The more players you have, the more spending power you have (hence some bigger clubs have academy teams filled with players that in the nicest possible way arent good enough).

You then negotiate with the college how much funding you will get and how much they will get. The bigger clubs take more money as its in the college's benefit having them there, the smaller clubs need the college more so the college takes more money.

Even with a good deal though, its still hard work from there. You need to pay your coaches, league admin fees, training kit, match kit, match day food, pitches, equipment and general running cost of the sides.

I was going to make it financially viable by having myself and a friend that is a UEFA B coach thats retired working for minimal money, so we could invest the rest of the money into making the scheme work.

 

The players you get realistically wont make it full time, or they would be at a club higher up the pyramid. What you need is to recognise this and team up with a college with maximum learning opporutnities, BTEC, A levels etc. The college then need to be willing to accomodate football life into their students day to day timetable. This is a struggle i assure you!

Clubs with big academies will make money from them, there is no doubt about that. But smaller academies such as mine would have been solely aimed at producing players to represent the club at first team level. To plagiarise another local clubs philosophy

 

2.'To Enable promising young footballers (16-18 years) to continue to further their education whilst striving to becoming a semi-professional or professional football player '

 

These are just some of the many, many, many hurdles you need to overcome. My presentation to the college was about 15 pages long lol. Sorry for the waffle, hope this helps abit.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Luke

[duncs]

Great post Luke but why go through all this hard work ? if someone is any good then they will not slip through the net,some of these lads have a terrible attitude and think they are professionals, the few I have had dealings with apart from a couple are simply not good enough for this level of football let alone any higher,heres a question for you mate what happens to them when they finish the course ?

[BUFC]

Being the enquiring person I am, I have noticed over the past few years,The growth of Acadamies at Non League Level.In the Croydon area alone

 

All a load of crap.............if you have to pay it aint worth a toss

[AllStar]

My knowledge only comes from Carshalton Atheltic 'Academy' - they had a squad of 25 players who won back to back Surrey cups and looked very good. Due to Dipres financial means he released all bar 4 I think it was.

 

Since then, players that he released have gone on to play for Dover, Dulwich Hamlet, Sutton United and Walton Casuals.

 

Personally, if under the right structure these academies can be very successful for teams to produce a good core that have played together and been involved on the club through progression. Also they won't ask for much ££ !!

[duncs]

My knowledge only comes from Carshalton Atheltic 'Academy' - they had a squad of 25 players who won back to back Surrey cups and looked very good. Due to Dipres financial means he released all bar 4 I think it was.

 

Since then, players that he released have gone on to play for Dover, Dulwich Hamlet, Sutton United and Walton Casuals.

 

Personally, if under the right structure these academies can be very successful for teams to produce a good core that have played together and been involved on the club through progression. Also they won't ask for much ££ !!

maybe went to play for those teams reserves and where did you get it from that they don't ask for much money ha ha thats a fecking joke as well.

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

A very good question, Smudge.

 

UKFF has no budget and is reliant on people putting in money for kit/travel/general running costs and also the good will of people associated with it to work for free. Were it not for Roehampton University offering to help them out, when they got removed from their pitch at Raynes Park, then the UKFF project would have been in serious trouble.

 

They do have a long term corporate plan for growth, and one aspect of this is to move their Elite team into a Step 6/7 league in the near future. To do this, they will need a new ground and I have heard that they were looking at moving into Bisley FC's Lion Park in the near future. This will not only help UKFF to grow and to be able to run a team in a competitive league (no disrespect, but both their 1st and Reserve sides are far too good for the Surrey Combination) but they will also be guaranteed regular games which has been a problem for their Elite side so far (only one game played v Leatherhead Reserves).

 

The hope is that UKFF finds another Abdul Razak type player and that they are able to market him to a bigger club. They have had some luck with Ishmael Camara now joining West Ham United full time and Leatherhead FC have also signed John Kamara and Dante Leverock from UKFF, and now more sides are taking them seriously. Therefore, it's a work in progress but the results will come.

[AllStar]

maybe went to play for those teams reserves and where did you get it from that they don't ask for much money ha ha thats a fecking joke as well.

 

They've gone onto to play for first teams and also, whoever told me was themselves considering I played alongside them and also go out with them most Saturday nights

[Non League Nigel]

Spot on Duncs

 

I've posted about this before

 

Most of the kids these days are deluded and think they will go onto become pros. We have had players from the Woking academy over the past 4/5 years and most of them werent up to reserve team football, thing is they came accross with an awful attitude thinking they were doing us a favour. The clubs just do it for £££

[pauls]

Being the enquiring person I am, I have noticed over the past few years,The growth of Acadamies at Non League Level.In the Croydon area alone,Croydon Athletic had one before they folded,which has now switched to the Whyteleafe Academy,all be it run by the same person,at the same College.I have noticed Redhill are hoping to form a new Academy in 2013,linking itself to Coulsdon College.This baffles me,what is in it for the Clubs involved,Prestige?Surely most decent Players at age 16,have been snapped up by Professional Clubs before this,who pays for the Academies?Are coaches paid and by whom?Just say you found a gem,would the temptation not be to pass the player onto a Pro Club,for reward,maybe the people who run these Academies at Non League Level are Scouts for Pro Clubs already.What does the Club get out of this,as over the years,have not noticed any Academy Stars playing for Croydon Athletic or more recently Whyteleafe.Are there any CCL Clubs with an Academy.If Croydon Athletic and now Whyteleafe, are bench marks for success,it does not augur well for the Non League game.Maybe these ac olsadamies just need a pitch to play on for FREE,just like UKFF,others get the reward,not the Clubs involved.ANY THOUGHTS?

My boy is 16 and is at an Academy , the biggest benefit being a goalkeeper is that he gets specialist training on a daily basis ....Not all 16 years old's get that ...He enjoy's it and gets paid ... If anything comes of it then it's a bonus ....

[Luke]

Duncs, i agree but the idea is clubs don't have to pay for the academy, it is self sufficient so anything that comes out of it is a bonus.

I completely agree that 99 per cent of players at non league academies have no chance of making it, but that's why they study at college. The idea isn't to necessarily give them a career in football, it's to give them the best chance of playing the highest level possible to them whilst pursuing other careers.

It can be beneficial to the youngsters, college say of your not up to date on college work then you don't play, so the kids strive for excellence off the pitch as well as on it.

It's beneficial to the clubs if the academy succeeds because they can make £££ as non league Nigel pointed out, and you'll get a few players coming through he system to strengthen your first team (if your coaches do their jobs).

It doesn't always work, but if you have the right people in the right places its a good idea : )

[Luke]

NLN I wasn't going to mention clubs names but as you already have lol....yes Woking are a primary example. They have x amount of academy teams, 70 per cent of the players wouldn't even make CC reserve teams. It's primarily a money making scheme for them.

I point out that different clubs will have different philosophies though...

[duncs]

I think it is ridiculous to get these kids to travel by rail land and sea and then not have the guts to tell them that they are being led a merry dance,as you said Luke it is purely a money making exercise and that is sad

[duncs]

They've gone onto to play for first teams and also, whoever told me was themselves considering I played alongside them and also go out with them most Saturday nights

Who ?

[AllStar]

Josh Turner, Nathan Oliver, Louis Chin to name a few

[Smudge]

Agree with Duncs,it sure is a money making venture for the person who runs it.Sadly it serves no purpose for the Club it is named after.Wonder what the drop out rate is for the Students.Camberley run an Academy do they not?

[duncs]

Josh Turner, Nathan Oliver, Louis Chin to name a few

who do they play for

[AllStar]

All played 1st team for Dulwich Hamlet, Walton Casuals and Leatherhead. I don't really see your point in perusing this though Duncs? Take someone's word for once.

 

Academies can be worthwhile just depends on the club, how it's organised and who's managing the kids.