What is the Solution? (Guernsey fixtures)

[TRS]

 

Fa cup: I believe fa cup matches have to be played on grass? I recall reading that somewhere on another forum. So 4G = no fa cup.

 

 

FA have changed the ruling. However, this only applies to the qualifying rounds. The ruling is for 3G pitches as far as I can tell, but assume it would also apply to 4G?

[VPCTFC]

There's no such thing as 4G. It's a marketing term invented by the pitch manufacturers. Some of them are even talking about 5G and 6G now. The technology continues to move on but, as far as the football authorities are concerned, they're all 3G and have to meet the relevant standards. Clubs at step 6 and above have to have FIFA 1 star standard or IATS equivalent pitches and they must be retested every year. Clubs at step 7 and lower have a more relaxed standard and only have to be retested every three years.

 

Quote from http://www.sportsandsafetysurfaces.co.uk/blog/suppliers-contractors/what-is-4g-4th-generation-sports-surfaces-synthetic-turf-carpet

 

"No such thing as 4G – yet. It is a marketing way of saying one company’s product is more advanced than another, with no proof or difference in performance or concept. The confusion comes in that there was never a 1G or 2G, and these terms have been applied retrospectively. So 1G refers to the original non-infilled surfaces, such as astroturf (which was the generic name) and now encompasses the non-infilled football surfaces popular in Switzerland. 2G refers to surfaces with sand in; mainly sand filled and sand dressed. 3G refers to any surface which is long pile with sand and rubber infill. There are also surfaces known as hybrids, which are used for football and hockey, but in reality are also 3G sports surfaces"

[SurreysFinest]

Indeed VP, the principle of an improved 3G was tested and labelled 4g but didn't work as expected. So as you say all these pitches are 3G.

[E&E Rich]

I wasn't particularly a fan of 3g myself until I visited Maidstone United this December on a day when everything else was off. Maidstone played Colliers Wood in the FA Cup this season by the way. It is only (currently) the First Round Proper onwards that has a restriction as far as I am aware. I know South Park and Hanworth came close to this round recently but even if by some minor miracle a Step Five side reached that level, most of them would be happy to play the game at a bigger venue up the road anyway as let's face it, the FA Cup is about finance and publicity first and foremost.

 

It is most definitely the way forward for clubs, maybe even right to the top, but certainly at non-league level with our increasingly unpredictable winters. The surface will make money, but it is the outlay in the first place that is the problem.

 

In ten years time you will see at least fifty 3g pitches used by clubs at non-league level. In Guernsey's case with a lack of really cold temperatures down there, you'd only ever get a postponement if fog affected the flights over.

[@BedfontFeltham]

We are so far behind other countries when it comes to 3g playing surfaces. I traveled to Costa Brava 12 years ago for a national tournament and they used 3g pitches, they got watered before every game so come rain or shine they had a game on. It has to be said that if the work is carrired out to a high spec then the pitches are very nice to play on and to be honest it didnt affect the run or bounce of the ball. It was an under 11s-18s tornament and we lost 7-0 in our openig game to Atlético Madrid with a certain Mr Torres scoring a hatrick.

[Krooner]

It is going to happen and be widespread. I would suspect that clubs will go in with companies for the initially outlay or dare I say it with councils.

 

I agree with Fred that within 10 years a good percentage of clubs will have them.

[Mark-Tommo]

Personally would prefer to play on 3G over grass

[Krooner]

An interesting one Tommo. The team I coach play their matches on poor quality undermaintained Council grass pitches. I coach them on 3g surfaces where they play some fantastic 1 and 2 touch football. This football is virtually impossible on the pitches supplied by the local council. Makes you wonder what the point of the training is !!

[Krooner]

Actually would be good to get a league view on this. would they accept a side with a 3g pitch ? I presume they would.

[HKP]

Surely if a 3g pitch is good enough for International Football and for Champions League then it should be good enough for Combined Countes League?

[Krooner]

Surely if a 3g pitch is good enough for International Football and for Champions League then it should be good enough for Combined Countes League?

 

I would suspect so but you never do know

[bomaya]

Had my first visit to Maidstone the other week and I agree that you completely forget you are not watching a game on grass. There were no noticeable weird bounces or anything like that.

[E&E Rich]

And like me you were probably at Maidstone because there was little or nothing else on!

 

I would suspect the Combined Counties would be more than happy. It would make lazarus a happy bunny by reducing the number of fixtures he had to rearrange which is a big plus that we don't always consider when just talking about the football.

 

The only thing of concern that I noticed was that the goal posts didn't appear to be anchored. What would happen if someone "moved the goal" whether by accident or design, as often happens with ice hockey?

[Big J R]

So if you play on a 3G pitch, is the penalty spot known as the..........................

 

 

 

G-SPOT ???

 

[HKP]

Some will never find it...

[Windsor_Sec]

I know South Park and Hanworth came close to this round recently but even if by some minor miracle a Step Five side reached that level, most of them would be happy to play the game at a bigger venue up the road anyway as let's face it, the FA Cup is about finance and publicity first and foremost.

 

Since Farnborough's shenanigans some years back when they switched an FA Cup game to Highbury simply to make more money the FA introduced a rule whereby if you have to switch a cup-tie due to the unsuitability of your own ground then whichever ground you choose to play the game at will have a capacity enforced which is the same as that of your own ground so it's hardly worth switching to a bigger ground if your capacity is still only relevant to the ground-grading of your home ground !

 

When Windsor reformed in 2011 our business plan going forward is to build a 3G surface on our current training area followed by [or maybe at the same time, funding dependant!] new clubhouse, dressing rooms, etc, with the final phase being the conversion of our main pitch to a 3G surface. We see a 3G surface as the way forward in years to come both in terms of less postponements and a way of getting the best use financially from a facility that for most clubs is vastly unused for most of the time. 3G means you can virtually play 24/7 meaning all 36 of our youth teams could actually play at Stag Meadow [if you could physically fit the fixtures in each weekend. LOL] and the knock-on effect is greater use of the clubhouse facilities which in turn increase profit for the club which can then be reinvested back into the football community side of things without the worry of overuse of the pitch or not using it on a Friday night [for example] in case it's not fit for a 1st team game on a Saturday. It is by no means a quick fix though as the maintenance required is totally different to that of a grass surface so major investment would have to be made into the correct machinery and you also have to put away money over a number of years to fund the replacement surface which needs to be done every few years. On the plus side you don't need expensive mowers and the days of people spending hours rolling,divoting and forking are past along with weed spraying, fertilisers and worm retardants. Our investigations show a projected total profit situation in year 3 after setting aside the first 2 years' income for the reasons stated above.

 

If anyone honestly believes that is not the way forward for non-league clubs then they are very poorly informed.

 

Just as an added personal opinion I believe the FA in the not too distant future will change their ruling on usage and will allow games in all cups to be played on 3G surfaces !

[Big J R]

Dorking played an away friendly a season or two ago on a 3G pitch.

 

It was the first time I'd walked out on one, and I have to say I was impressed, and it's not easy to impress me.

 

Concensus of players afterwards wasn't that it wasn't as friendly and easy on the muscles, but given the way our weather seems to be going, it seems to be the way forward.

[Smudge]

Is there a 3g sloping pitch anywhere?

[Big J R]

Is there a 3g sloping pitch anywhere?

 

That's an interesting question, Smudgie !

[VPCTFC]

Actually would be good to get a league view on this. would they accept a side with a 3g pitch ? I presume they would.

 

The FA have said 3G pitches are acceptable up to Conference Premier as long as they meet the FIFA standards. In the past the Conference have said no to them but the FA have, from this season, specifically mentioned they're allowed at steps 1-6 in their handbook.

If the CCL, or any other league refused, I expect any club would win an appeal with the FA.

They're even allowed in the football league now in some circumstances. If you're in the league you're not allowed to install one but any team getting promoted from the Conference can keep their 3G pitch if they have one. When it needs to be replaced it must be replaced by grass though. I'm sure, in a few years, that rule will be relaxed as well. Most of the League 1 and 2 sides are in favour of them but aren't allowed to install them because the big boys in the Premier League and Championship don't want them (despite, I suspect, nearly all of them doing some training on them). I can't remember if it's the Premier League or the Championship which is the level that they're banned completely.

Edited February 8, 2013 by VPCTFC