Smudge Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Now with the New Fines being imposed this season for Clubs,regarding a totting up procedure being used regards Dissent to Officials.The season has 42 games in the Prem,34 in Div 1,so to get to 15 bookings would not be hard in my opinion.Just say you have a gobby player or 2,who gets booked regularly,but as is the way in CCL he leaves after say 20 games,with 5 bookings for dissent.2 games later you get to 15,and are fined,would that Player be liable to pay towards the Fine imposed.Maybe if you are a well run Club,you will take this matter in hand,and add on your own in house fine,to cover any future outcome.Any views? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mayor Of Simpleton Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Tell the gobby players to fall in line or get out of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluck_ab Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 If you know what the amount of the fine is for the caution / sending-off, then get the player to pay the due amount straight after the game. Or perhaps deduct it from the expenses or remuneration he may be receiving from the club for his services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Gluck sensible solution Players always come to games with readies in their Pockets.But that would not cover the cost of the added on fine later in the Season.Do you think that 15 cautions over a Season,is a hard level to reach for Dissent,I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnojudo Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 some clubs get half of that in one game!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluck_ab Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Smudge Take the amount of the collective fine from whatever pot the players have for self or management-imposed fines (worst trainer, dirty boots, late arrival, not wearing club shirt / track-suit, etc) and which they put towards an end-of-season jolly. That way, the attitude and behaviour of players towards officials affects all involved which, in my experience, is an effective form of discipline as the more sensible individuals will soon get a grip of errant ones. JJ has a point though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Sensible solution Gluck-ab,but knowing the crafty way players work,they would turn up suited and booted,clean boots,on time,etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Blame Me Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 So much for the "Respect" campaign having any sort of success. The attitudes starts and ends with the clubs and therein lies the problem. If the people on the bench are not able to put together a sentence without expletives then what hope is there? It can be done though. Brian Clough did not tolerate dissent of any sort and made it clear to his players that abuse of the officials was not going to be accepted. If you have someone on your own bench hurling abuse at the officials, he is hardly going to be in a position to tell his players not to. This is where the committees that run clubs can and should take a firm hand - but they don't because winning IS everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mayor Of Simpleton Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 John Sitton hit the nail on the head recently, saying that in his day players were never bigger than the clubs they were at. Contrast that with today, where certain players have no respect for their clubs or even themselves. They care more about money and looking good in front of their mates and girlfriend. Slightly off topic, but standards in society generally have been going downhill since the 1970s. The abolition of the cane/ruler in schools as punishment against unruly children and closure of Youth Clubs means that the kids may not have learnt discipline and self-respect which they could have carried into adulthood. We've become too liberal and players now can tell the manager to FO (remember Sean St. ledger in Big Ron Manager?) No player would have dared tell Bill Shankly, Brian Clough or Sir Alex Ferguson to do that. These three managers commanded respect and their players feared them but respected them 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncs Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I know of one lad who has been sent off for swearing this season and his punishment is an absolute joke he has received a 2 match ban plus an £85 fine where the feck is a young lad gonna get 85 quid from I don't think the players would be to pleased if he took that amount out of the fine pot,you see the idea that the fines are manageable is wrong this is all designed to finish off non league clubs who are in trouble already,so tell all your gobby players and managers to be as quiet as church mice just like Duncs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big J R Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I think just about every club will have one player who deems it his right to be abusive to opponents/officials. At the end of the day it must be the Club that makes a stand against such 'players' ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluck_ab Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Duncs The whole point of considering club fines for cummulative dissent cautions coming from the players end-of-season pot is that the actions of the dissenter directly impacts on the rest of the team. The team then address the issue of the dissenter which should have the desired effect, i.e he keeps quiet and stops gobbing off. The point about where a young lad finds the money for the fine is irrelevant - quite simply, 'if you can't do the time (or pay the fine), don't commit the crime.' Besides, its as often older, more experienced players - who ought to know better - that are the worst culprits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 Reverse for Referee's then Gluck,seems to me its the Younger breed of Ref,who dishes out the most Cards.Whilst the older generation,have nothing to prove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewprosser84 Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I'd have to agree Smudge the younger the referee the less common sense seems to be applied. We had two young referees last season 1 I know off is being fast tracked and is in the top 3 of worst referees I have ever seen. The second didn't even seem to know some of the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 I'd have to agree Smudge the younger the referee the less common sense seems to be applied. We had two young referees last season 1 I know off is being fast tracked and is in the top 3 of worst referees I have ever seen. The second didn't even seem to know some of the rules. Laws IP,you will have the Refereeing fraternity on your back otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewprosser84 Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 He seemed to know neither the Laws or the Rules (thought I would use a smiley since it seems to be the done thing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rother Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Duncs The whole point of considering club fines for cummulative dissent cautions coming from the players end-of-season pot is that the actions of the dissenter directly impacts on the rest of the team. The team then address the issue of the dissenter which should have the desired effect, i.e he keeps quiet and stops gobbing off. The point about where a young lad finds the money for the fine is irrelevant - quite simply, 'if you can't do the time (or pay the fine), don't commit the crime.' Besides, its as often older, more experienced players - who ought to know better - that are the worst culprits. Well said. Bit subtle for Duncs I should imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluck_ab Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Smudge / IP Perhaps it's not so much common sense as differing levels of experience and maturity - which could apply equally to players as well as referees. Without ignoring application of the laws of the game, there are some situations which potentially could be managed without the necessity for a card. The success in doing that is being able to identify these, knowing which course of action is best to maintain match control and considering whether or not they could succesfully work. Examples could be where the tempo of the game has risen (for any number of reasons), where there are personal match-ups bubbling up (CF v CB, winger v fullback, etc), niggling fouls being committed in quick succession, etc. Being proactive and addressing these early on may prevent a subsequent card. There is often debate amongst referees regarding the subject of whether an early card prevents future dramas or equally sets the benchmark for subsequent cards. Similarly too late a card can cause dramas too for match control. Each situation requires management that only experience getting games under one's belt can provide, the old adage of 'you can't buy experience' being very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 Well said. Bit subtle for Duncs I should imagine. Do not be fooled regards Duncs,he has a very high MENSA rating.Higher than your favourite poster for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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