Hillsborough findings

[Eastside Urchin]

Whilst the police,government etc have obviously made a complete cock up of this whole tragedy,with regards to cover up etc.

The one set of people who should look at themselves are the fans,not the fans that died or indeed other Liverpool fans but fans of all clubs who for 20 years before this tragic event,terrorised grounds and town centres with violence,looting,plain straight rioting every saturday in many places.I am not saying every fan was like this,the majority of football fans at all clubs were and are now law abiding citizens,at least they are at football,but there were many who weren't and these people were ultimately responsible for the awful way in which all football fans were treated,like caged animals which led to such a tragic sequence of events.

The fences were put in to try to stop violence,sadly in this case they led to the death of many.While the cover up is a complete shambles and heads should roll,lets not forget the reasons why these measures were put in place,rightly or wrongly.

And still,people glamourise football violence,including many premier league clubs who allow ex hooligans to blatently publicise their books using the clubs name.

 

 

RIP TO THE 96,AT LAST JUSTICE

[Rhodes]

To be honest, and I know this might sound a bit heartless, but why can’t the 96 bereaved

families just get on with their lives now, they can’t bring their loved ones back so what’s the point in looking for a scapegoat for the Hillsborough disaster

[Hookey]

You prat, because for 23 years their loved ones were BLAMED for their own deaths. The police even ran criminal checks on the dead to see if they could incriminate them in some way.

[Eastside Urchin]

This has all taken far too long to come out,far too long for the families and far too long that although apologies will be made,those that have lied will probably get away with it

[sjj2112]

Just when you think that Rhodes can't sink any lower...

[Rhodes]

Hookey – Yes but, like I said, we still can’t bring them back can we, I don’t think the dead were actually blamed for their own deaths were they

[Eastside Urchin]

I think we have to remember what football was like back then,It wasn't very nice,crowds were low,mainly because parents didn't want to take their children to football,we were banned from europe after heysel,which meant we was starved of decent players unlike now.It was relatively cheap to watch football but the violence put people off.Even now,people still glorify these acts,write books about them and many football followers buy such material or watch the films.Its about time football fans stood up and took part of the blame,without years of violence this tragic event would never of happened.Right or wrongly,we were treated like caged animals because many behaved like them

[sjj2112]

Rhodes, why don't you actually try reading up on the subject and acquaint yourself with some facts before you start spouting your usual crap.

 

Start with the BBC website where you'll find that, amongst others, David Cameron referred to the fact that the deceased were blamed for their own deaths : "He said they had suffered both in the "failure of the state to protect their loved ones and the indefensible wait to get to the truth", and in the efforts to denigrate the deceased and suggest that they were "somehow at fault for their own deaths"."

 

All the victims were tested for excess blood alcohol levels - including the youngest victim who was just 10 years old. Anybody who had a "non-zero" level, note that this is different from a level showing excessive drinking, were then subject to Police National Computer checks to see if they had a criminal record.

 

Do you still think that this entire episode should just be forgotten about?

[Rhodes]

Sjj2112 – Well to be honest if, God forbid, I had had a son or daughter killed at Hillsborough, or in similar circumstances, I don’t think I would have spent 23 years of my life looking for a scapegoat, like I said nothing is ever going to bring the victims of the disaster back

[missunderstood]

Sjj2112 – Well to be honest if, God forbid, I had had a son or daughter killed at Hillsborough, or in similar circumstances, I don’t think I would have spent 23 years of my life looking for a scapegoat, like I said nothing is ever going to bring the victims of the disaster back

 

I honestly believe that all the deceased families have ever been fighting for is justice for their loved ones, and if mistakes were made that cost lives then the culprits should be be tried in a criminal court and if found guilty pay the appropriate price. I do agree with Eastside though when he says that the hooligan element that poisoned football all them years ago are just as much to blame.

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

Rhodes, I'd imagine that it is very difficult for anybody involved (directly or non-directly) to move on with their lives after being involved in something like Hillsborough.

 

i watched a documentary on the Richardsons, the other week, and one of the victims of Mad Frankie Fraser still cannot move on after 42 years. He is still scared and scarred by his experiences at the hands of 'the dentist.'

 

Some things you cannot forget.

[Hookey]

Sjj2112 – Well to be honest if, God forbid, I had had a son or daughter killed at Hillsborough, or in similar circumstances, I don’t think I would have spent 23 years of my life looking for a scapegoat, like I said nothing is ever going to bring the victims of the disaster back

 

Rhodes, a scapegoat is someone who gets blamed for someone else's crime/wrongdoing. The families of the 96 were not looking to blame the innocent. This is NOT about bringing back the dead, it's about exonerating them of all blame. Can't you see that?

 

Yes EU makes a good point, that at least explains why they were penned in like cattle, but not why the SYP lied about everything.

 

 

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Edited September 13, 2012 by Hookey

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

I've glanced through the report (you can download it) and SYP do not come out smelling of roses.

[Eastside Urchin]

I was on twitter earlier and a retweet appeared from a west ham fan,the actual original tweet was from an ex west ham hooligan who said police should hang for their part in hillsborough,without the likes of this hooligan at clubs,fences would never of been put up

[Eastside Urchin]

SYP come out of this looking like scum,however,we must look at the wider picture here.Hooliganism was rife,the 39 lives lost at heysel should of stopped it completely,but they didn't,it was almost as if because they were italian and it was on foreign soil that it didn't matter,yes it got better but that was because the government clamped down with orders,fencing,in some cases clubs offered membership schemes such as luton but although some worked,other ideas failed.Now we have cctv which is about as good a deterent as anything (I should know).Without heysel and hooliganism in general,hillsborough doesn't happen,yes SYP,the sun,services,goverment are all to blame for the cover up but sadly football,the authorities and the countless amount of fans/firms are the ones who paved the way for this tragic set of events

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

Agree totally EU!

 

The Cass Pennant's and Annis Abraham's of the hooligan world are equally to blame.

[Rhodes]

I’ve glanced through the report (you can download it) and SYP do not come out smelling of roses

AdamKing - You can’t really blame the South Yorkshire Police for what they did though can you, I think every Police force in the Country would have acted out of character in exactly the same circumstances, the disaster could have easily occurred at a Semi Final at Villa Park, Old Trafford, Highbury, Maine Road or Elland Road couldn’t it but it happened to be Hillsborough.

[Eastside Urchin]

Highbury didn't have fences

Hillsborough was an accident waiting to happen,I stood in the leppings lane end a few times and also sat above it and it was decrepid.

Football fans were however looked at as second class citizens by police,mainly because many acted like sub humans,for that I can at least understand why they may of been slow with their actions,what I can't forgive is the lies and cover up after

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

Tony Blair can't see the point (could he ever?): http://sport.uk.msn.com/blog/beyond-the-far-post-blogpost.aspx?post=a6bdb44f-4f7f-4dd5-af17-8ba752d661a5

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

Jack Straw in hot water about Hillsborough too in the Sunday Independent today:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ios-hillsborough-exclusive-revealed--the-critical-role-of-jack-straw-8165990.html