Ceiling Level

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

A general question:

 

Where, do you feel, the 'ceiling level' for your club is? In other words, where do you think the maximum level for your club is realistically?

 

Ryman League? Conference South? The Football League, even?

 

I couldn't possibly comment on my team, as Mr. Royston Vasey might get upset

[Krooner]

I would suggest at the moment that my lot could cope at Step 4. The biggest problem we would have is lack of support from the local area because in the end without people through the door spengin their money and the local businesses getting behind us anything beyond that is a pipe dream. I would imagine that would be the same for the majority of the CCL clubs IMHO.

[Big J R]

It's all about money these days.

 

Find the right Sugar Daddy, and the skys the limit, surely ??

[Jeff Hamnett TSF]

where can the clubs go or what level should the town be playing at?

 

a few towns have more than one senior club at our level, and Im convinced that hinders them.

 

How many clubs can Bedfont support? Dorking?Horsham?

 

when you groundshare your splitting the availabilty of players coaches fans sponsors and volunteers.

Im convinced if Dorking had not groundshared and not had another club doing well in town, then there was no way Dorking would be finishing bottom of coco prem.

 

Coco prem is a difficult league to progress from, so any thoughts of competing higher involve how to get out of this league.

in premier you can finish fourth and play in the champions league (most years!!!) , lower you can finish sixth and get promoted,here you can win league and stay put.

 

Can Dorking get out of this league? cant see it.

Could it compete at ryman Prem,? just about.

Conference?Not unless Crawley and Woking fail, and noone else steps up.

 

Survival is most clubs first target!

[Silver Not Grey]

where can the clubs go or what level should the town be playing at?

 

a few towns have more than one senior club at our level, and Im convinced that hinders them.

 

How many clubs can Bedfont support? Dorking?Horsham?

 

when you groundshare your splitting the availabilty of players coaches fans sponsors and volunteers.

Im convinced if Dorking had not groundshared and not had another club doing well in town, then there was no way Dorking would be finishing bottom of coco prem.

 

Coco prem is a difficult league to progress from, so any thoughts of competing higher involve how to get out of this league.

in premier you can finish fourth and play in the champions league (most years!!!) , lower you can finish sixth and get promoted,here you can win league and stay put.

 

Can Dorking get out of this league? cant see it.

Could it compete at ryman Prem,? just about.

Conference?Not unless Crawley and Woking fail, and noone else steps up.

 

Survival is most clubs first target!

 

Dorking had bookham grounsharing for a few years,they wernt successful. In my opinion dorking will not be successful until they have some stability in a management sense,a reserve side and a decent pitch that will attract players from the surrounding areas. Until this happens i cant see dorking pushing on from a mid table place. IMHO

Edited August 12, 2012 by Silver Not Grey

[Big J R]

Some very interesting thoughts immediately above !

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

I agree as well, Big JR.

 

On town/population levels, I know that Histon (population 4,000) got as far as the Conference Premier before hitting the buffers, but you don't often get sides with small centres of population that high up the pyramid.

 

With Woking, Brentford, Hayes & Yeading and Crawley the biggest teams in the Combined Counties area (not to mention the closeness of the London-based Premier League teams), I guess that it would be hard for most teams to break into Step 3 or above unless they can get good players (like Barwell or Bashley in the Southern Premier League). Even sides like Gloucester, Worcester and Redditch find it hard to get over 300 in through the gates (and Gloucester has over 100,000 people in residence and could in theory support a League 1 or 2 side!)

 

Thanks to everybody who has posted thus far.

[inbetweener]

have to get that element of luck of having either a money man or a manager with good contacts then when promoted keep that momentum going and hope that the higher you go the more people come and watch. but as above so many teams in and around london and south east makes it so hard to get people through the gates

[Smudge]

Lord Coe summed it up in a nutshell,'YOU DO NOT GET EXCELLENCE ON THE CHEAP' I personally wonder how many Clubs survive,with meagre crowds,take away the HEROIC VOLUNTEERS and most would fold.Living in the most populated Borough in London you would think just by numbers,they would be well supported.Unfortunately they are not.3 clubs in the area have tried to buy success at different levels over the years,all failed in their dreams,due to different circumstances.The one thing that does upset me a little though is our local Pro Side Crystal Palace,back in their Div 3 days,yes it was a long time ago,they were a true Community Club.School Cup Finals were played at Selhurst Park,one of the reasons I Supported them in my younger days was because of this.In those days they played local sides in Pre-Season Friendlies,but since they went into Administration twice,and the Chairman past and present,were local people,they no longer do this.They must know what it is like,struggling on a shoestring,and how much revenue could be weaned for a local Non League side,if they sent a decent side down for 1 afternoon a Season.Nowadays it's Welling and Margate,could be they have sourced a Player on the cheap,and that is part of the deal.Likewise our local rag the Croydon Sadvertiser gives 2 pages to local Cricket,that 2 men and a dog go and watch,and half a page to Non League Sides if your lucky.Unfortunately we live in a different era,the good days will never return thats for sure,and the disappointing thing is,that very little young blood is getting involved with Clubs these days,most Clubs are run by people getting on in years.There are a few exceptions,and they will progress further than most,due to older people being stuck in their ways.So if you can manage to stay where you are,you have cracked it in my opinion,anything else is a Bonus.

[Big J R]

I have to agree, Smudger !

[Beano]

For what it's worth, Smudge, I think you have a point. There was a time when there were few leisure and/or social pursuits except the local football club and travel was not as easy as it is now. This helped clubs at all levels to attract good crowds, which helped to sustain them. Now, of course, there is so much else going on, whether it's the internet, games consoles or just there are other things for people to do. And now travel is so cheap and you can find yourself in any major city in Europe within a few hours of leaving your house, the "big" clubs no longer rely on games with the local teams to get themselves ready for each new season. After all, they can go on tour somewhere warm and profitable... The same problem can affect attendances at games; it can be cheaper to fly to Germany to watch a game there than go to a Premier League game! This makes the non-league game appear overpriced and drives away the "armchair fan".

 

I'm 32 now, but I've been involved with senior football clubs as a volunteer official for over 20 years and you're right, there aren't too many people like me coming through. I don't know how that changes...

 

Going back to Adam's original question, Ashford (ex-CCL, so not entirely off topic) reached Step 3 (Ryman Premier) and were fairly successful at that level for four seasons until the greater financial resources of other clubs proved too much to compete with. I certainly think we could get back there, eventually, but I struggle to see how we'd go any higher without a massive increase in crowds. We are structured in such a way that no one person can "own" the club, so no-one is going to come in and promise "Football League in five years". In any case, there are restrictions on how high we could go at our ground and I'm not sure we'd welcome that kind of "investment" either.

[Smudge]

The culture has changed dramatically over the past 20+ years,not helped I must say by Government and Local Authority's.Take Croydon as an example many School Playing Fields have been sold off for Housing,never to return.No more inter School rivalry at Football/Cricket.But right amongst us, is a well known Private School,that regularly wins National Titles at Football,Rugby,Cricket,they have every facility that is needed,with Coaches that have played at the highest level in the game.Even Surrey Cricket Club play some of their games there.For their other sports they have a Swimming Pool,Squash Courts,Hockey 3g pitches,Tennis Courts.Whilst less than a mile away their is a School,that no sensible parent in the past,would send their child to,but since becoming a Sports Academy School,it is over subscribed.However does it have a decent Playing Field where it can play Football and Cricket games NO,They have to use the slopey,windy,Purley Way Playing Fields,which is a Public Park.However parents should not become disheartened,because if your son is any good at Football,Cricket,etc he will be spotted by the Private School spies,and will be offered a Free Scholarship by them a la Victor Moses.Similar to Non League in many ways,you do the groundwork,they get the Reward.The thing that has made me laugh over recent years,is that we have become an obese nation,yet the F.A Sponsorship deals are with Budweiser/Carling/Macdonalds,even our local Hospital has a Burger King in the Main Entrance.What a great example they are setting to our Youth.WE ARE ALL DOOMED.

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

The culture has changed dramatically over the past 20+ years,not helped I must say by Government and Local Authority's.Take Croydon as an example many School Playing Fields have been sold off for Housing,never to return.No more inter School rivalry at Football/Cricket.But right amongst us, is a well known Private School,that regularly wins National Titles at Football,Rugby,Cricket,they have every facility that is needed,with Coaches that have played at the highest level in the game.Even Surrey Cricket Club play some of their games there.For their other sports they have a Swimming Pool,Squash Courts,Hockey 3g pitches,Tennis Courts.Whilst less than a mile away their is a School,that no sensible parent in the past,would send their child to,but since becoming a Sports Academy School,it is over subscribed.However does it have a decent Playing Field where it can play Football and Cricket games NO,They have to use the slopey,windy,Purley Way Playing Fields,which is a Public Park.However parents should not become disheartened,because if your son is any good at Football,Cricket,etc he will be spotted by the Private School spies,and will be offered a Free Scholarship by them a la Victor Moses.Similar to Non League in many ways,you do the groundwork,they get the Reward.The thing that has made me laugh over recent years,is that we have become an obese nation,yet the F.A Sponsorship deals are with Budweiser/Carling/Macdonalds,even our local Hospital has a Burger King in the Main Entrance.What a great example they are setting to our Youth.WE ARE ALL DOOMED.

 

I completely agree. I blame the Illuminati.

[Smudge]

The what,you are so educated.Anyone know what illuminati is NO GOOGLING NOW.

[Big J R]

It's an electric light company, isn't it ?

 

Edited August 15, 2012 by Big J R

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

I always thought it was what took place up in Blackpool in October

 

http://www.illuminati-news.com/moriah.htm

[bomaya]

 

With Woking, Brentford, Hayes & Yeading and Crawley the biggest teams in the Combined Counties area (not to mention the closeness of the London-based Premier League teams), I guess that it would be hard for most teams to break into Step 3 or above unless they can get good players

 

Depends what you mean by CC area. If Palace or AFC Wimbledon had to drop to Step 5 then I guess they would end up in the CCL. Maybe also the Hampshire teams - Southampton, Portsmouth and Aldershot.

 

Locally to me, Leatherhead were in Step 3 last year, of course they finished in the bottom four but many blame the chairman for his meddling in pre-season.

[Big J R]

With Woking, Brentford, Hayes & Yeading and Crawley the biggest teams in the Combined Counties area (not to mention the closeness of the London-based Premier League teams), I guess that it would be hard for most teams to break into Step 3 or above unless they can get good players

 

Depends what you mean by CC area. If Palace or AFC Wimbledon had to drop to Step 5 then I guess they would end up in the CCL. Maybe also the Hampshire teams - Southampton, Portsmouth and Aldershot.

 

Locally to me, Leatherhead were in Step 3 last year, of course they finished in the bottom four but many blame the chairman for his meddling in pre-season.

 

Not being a million miles from Leatherhead, part of our beloved Mole Valley, I hear that there is some dis-quiet and rumblings going through the club again.

[bomaya]

With Woking, Brentford, Hayes & Yeading and Crawley the biggest teams in the Combined Counties area (not to mention the closeness of the London-based Premier League teams), I guess that it would be hard for most teams to break into Step 3 or above unless they can get good players

 

Depends what you mean by CC area. If Palace or AFC Wimbledon had to drop to Step 5 then I guess they would end up in the CCL. Maybe also the Hampshire teams - Southampton, Portsmouth and Aldershot.

 

Locally to me, Leatherhead were in Step 3 last year, of course they finished in the bottom four but many blame the chairman for his meddling in pre-season.

 

Not being a million miles from Leatherhead, part of our beloved Mole Valley, I hear that there is some dis-quiet and rumblings going through the club again.

 

Glad to hear it.

[GD The Fall Guy]

I would say the highest we could get to would be Blue Square South