Tia Sharp

[Loose]

Can't say that I disagree with removing child benefits. If someone can come up with a good argument why people should impose their choice to have children on taxpayers and cannot afford to bring a child up without benefits then I'm open to being dissuaded.

 

Well, for a start the children of today will be responsible for looking after us in our old age by becoming scientists, doctors, nurses and the police who keep us all safe most of the time.

 

IMO if we give kids a good start in life by financially supporting parents at a time when they are probably at the lowest point in their lives, cash-wise, then we all reap the benefit when they grow up to be decent members of society.

 

Don't disagree Alan, but I'm not talking about kids already likely to become scientists, doctors etc. I'm concerned about a whole underclass of kids with parents completely lacking basic parenting skills who won't get their children engaged in education enabling them to seek these vital roles in the future.

 

I agree that I don't have the magic bullet, the one single cure because there likely isn't one single measure that will fix this broken class, it's not the working class which used to be the lowest measure on the scale - those people - that class had a self respect and gained respect for the sweat of their honest labour if not the rewards they were due. I'm talking about a whole new level below that which didn't exist until the late 70s / early 80s when lifestyles changed, when single mothers wanted children for what it could bring them not what they could do for their children. Children brought them a place on the housing list, more children brought them a higher place, benefits and no incentive to self provide. Some of the people at this level couldn't even provide or act as role models to their children and the genie is out of the bottle now. A whole new class of people now know that the risk versus consequences of not abiding by society's standards of behaviour or fear the future they reap for their children is nothing to be avoided. They can't afford their kids, the taxpayer does.

 

Are their children going to be nurses, doctors, firemen or policemen? It doesn't look good.

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

Loose has a good point, although if a child wants success that badly they will make it whether they are from a Sh1tehole or Stock Broker Belt Land.

 

Equally, if they don't want to make anything of their lives, then they won't.

 

I would say bulldoze the bad estates, but that means moving the idiots elsewhere.

[Loose]

Loose has a good point, although if a child wants success that badly they will make it whether they are from a Sh1tehole or Stock Broker Belt Land.

 

Equally, if they don't want to make anything of their lives, then they won't.

 

I would say bulldoze the bad estates, but that means moving the idiots elsewhere.

 

No-one can deny that anyone can raise themselves out of their condition and many can and do but in all honesty there are many in-equiped to do so. So may kids these days born with this or that syndrome, mothers drinking, smoking, taking drugs during pregnancies they are behind the eight ball before the game even starts. Mothers who do not form any bond with their children during the early months and years leaving kids unattached and unable to empathise or socialise.

[missunderstood]

I worked on the census last year and my patch was probably the most socially deprived estate in the borough. I met quite a few people who was unable to read or write, brains ruined by drink or drugs, and haven't had a job for years. It seemed to me that society had completely given up on them, and TBH many of them probably was beyond help. The answer has to be dragging our education system into the twenty first century and showing the children of the underclass we have allowed to be created that they can have a great future if they are given the proper encouragement to put the work in. Unfortunately this costs huge amounts of money, and successive governments seem to prefer to spend that money on the elite that will make a success of their lives regardless of how much cash is thrown at their education.

[Eastside Urchin]

Smudge I have been there.Its not paradise but its not a complete dump but it has the "estate feel" about it,the mentality is insular,the police are scum even when doing their job and petty villains are almost looked upon as heroes until they go too far and commit the most henious of crimes like murder etc.Even then people still defend them.Problem is that there is a new addington in virtually every town in the country and in some cities there are dozens

[Eastside Urchin]

.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Eastside Urchin

[Eastside Urchin]

Alan,I think its easy to blame the education system.I blame the patents of disfunctional families more.They hold their children back,I bet hardly any buy their kids encyclopedias and dictionaries like me and many kids our age had in the 70s and 80s,most kids who do well I bet have parents who "school" them at home after school.

My nipper is 2 years 3 months,we have already taught her to count to 20,everything we do is based on her learning,she knows all her colours,hundreds of objects,birds etc,all this costs nothing but time.Don't get me wrong,we are lucky,alice is a teacher,we have parents who help out and do the same as us,some don't have this but many just don't spend the time helping their kids grow.

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

You can begin by scrapping the Comprehensive schools, where children are expected to 'move forward together' and that 'no child should be left behind as it's un-PC.' I went to one, and it was a shambles. The Teachers could hardly spell and were barely numerate, and they did little to inspire me as a pupil.

 

True, I was far from perfect as a pupil and yes I did 'mitch off' at times, but the general attitude was 'we don't want to be here, you don't want to be here, but we're getting paid a fortune so we don't give a toss.' Most of the children who actually got something out of school were the kids of rich parents, and if like me you came from a crap tower block with a Mum who walked out and a Dad who never worked and drank and cried in equal amounts you got nothing but boredom and clock-watching until 3.30 p.m.

 

There was no way I was going to stay there, and I'm glad I got out when I could.

 

Get the lefty agendaist unions out of schools as well - politics and education should be separate.

[Eastside Urchin]

I went to a comprehensive and it was a very good school,my sister went to a better one half a mile down the road,very good school that is widely regarded as being one of the best comprehensive schools in the country,the also regularly pit their wits against schools like millfield in sports and often come out on top

[missunderstood]

You can begin by scrapping the Comprehensive schools, where children are expected to 'move forward together' and that 'no child should be left behind as it's un-PC.' I went to one, and it was a shambles. The Teachers could hardly spell and were barely numerate, and they did little to inspire me as a pupil.

 

True, I was far from perfect as a pupil and yes I did 'mitch off' at times, but the general attitude was 'we don't want to be here, you don't want to be here, but we're getting paid a fortune so we don't give a toss.' Most of the children who actually got something out of school were the kids of rich parents, and if like me you came from a crap tower block with a Mum who walked out and a Dad who never worked and drank and cried in equal amounts you got nothing but boredom and clock-watching until 3.30 p.m.

 

There was no way I was going to stay there, and I'm glad I got out when I could.

 

Get the lefty agendaist unions out of schools as well - politics and education should be separate.

 

Thank god your not a politician Adam, the comprehensive system may not be perfect but but at least it doesn't condemn kids to be failures and factory fodder before they even reach their teens because they failed the eleven plus. Probably the fairest solution would be to scrap private education, so the policy makers (politicians) would then have to send their own children to the same schools as the rest of us. That would certainly guarantee they would strive to improve education for all, and not just the elite few.

 

With regards to your "lefty unions" quote, never forget that most of the good things in life we now take for granted were fought for over generations by various socialist movements, including the unions.

[Eastside Urchin]

Oh dear

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

Alan/Missunderstood,

 

Some fair points there, and I don't (and won't) deny that unions have done a lot of good. They have also got it wrong,at times, but I guess that no system is perfect.

 

You cannot have a 'one size fits all'communistic approach to education, and I for one do not begrudge children going to private schools if Mum and Dad can afford it. Yes, they should give children the same standard of education in the comprehensives/secondaries but when they are being paid more in private (like the doctors are in BUPA) then they're going to give more of a damn about educating the richer kids.

 

You should spend a week at some of the comprehensives in my old stomping ground of Blaenau Gwent and Torfaen - failing, falling down, girls pregnant and on benefits at 12 and very few of the pupils and teachers are bothered. In fact, my English teacher was one of the worst spellers I have ever known. Her 'method' was to hurl Shakespeare books at us (literally!) and say 'get on with it!' It's truly a depressing state of affairs, but with Labour in charge there nothing will change.

 

I had thought about going into politics, but I'm too straight and honest and I won't toe any party lines. I'm happy to lend my voice, vote and support to UKIP but that's as far as my political ambitions go.

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

Anyway, I see that the creepy guy in the Sharpe family has been charged with Tia's murder.

 

If guilty, don't send him down - send him back to face the people of the community. He won't last five minutes.

[Big J R]

Anyway, I see that the creepy guy in the Sharpe family has been charged with Tia's murder.

 

If guilty, don't send him down - send him back to face the people of the community. He won't last five minutes.

 

..... and if that poor little girls grandmother ISN'T charged with any offence, the good honest taxpayers will have to foot the bill to re-house her, probably far away up north !

Edited August 13, 2012 by Big J R

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

Exactly, Big JR.

 

Sub-human pondlife scum like her don't deserve to have the right to a second chance IMHO. Just look at the Bulger killers - out of jail after committing one of the worst ever crimes on British soil and one of them's had his name changed four times.

 

Our tax paid for him to have the privilege. B*stard.

[Big J R]

Hear Hear.

 

Bring back the rope, I say !

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

Maybe not the rope, but bring back discipline and respect for others.

 

Did you know that the cane used to be legal to use in schools up until 1987? It was the then EEC who stopped it.

 

I'm not saying that it should be brought back (although there are good reasons for and against it) but we have to have a deterrent against bad behaviour. At the moment, parents are too scared to discipline their children if they get too unruly. You've only got to watch 'The World's Strictest Parents' to see how bad some of our kids are.

[missunderstood]

Maybe not the rope, but bring back discipline and respect for others.

 

Did you know that the cane used to be legal to use in schools up until 1987? It was the then EEC who stopped it.

 

I'm not saying that it should be brought back (although there are good reasons for and against it) but we have to have a deterrent against bad behaviour. At the moment, parents are too scared to discipline their children if they get too unruly. You've only got to watch 'The World's Strictest Parents' to see how bad some of our kids are.

 

When I was at school in the 50s and 60s there was far to many teachers who used the cane for their own sadistic pleasure. Violence against children from adults only teaches them that violence is acceptable behavior and I hope it never returns in any shape or form.

[Rhodes]

Would anybody on here 'dob' their disfunctional neighbours in if they knew full well something untoward was going on behind closed doors as must have been the case at Tia's Grandmother's home, presumably the walls on that infamous New Addington Estate are paper thin so they must have heard a thing or two involving Stuart Hazell who could drink for England.

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

Maybe not the rope, but bring back discipline and respect for others.

 

Did you know that the cane used to be legal to use in schools up until 1987? It was the then EEC who stopped it.

 

I'm not saying that it should be brought back (although there are good reasons for and against it) but we have to have a deterrent against bad behaviour. At the moment, parents are too scared to discipline their children if they get too unruly. You've only got to watch 'The World's Strictest Parents' to see how bad some of our kids are.

 

When I was at school in the 50s and 60s there was far to many teachers who used the cane for their own sadistic pleasure. Violence against children from adults only teaches them that violence is acceptable behavior and I hope it never returns in any shape or form.

 

That is my main reason against bringing corporal punishment back, as you will get some teachers who would whack a child just because they don't like him/her and can use any little slip-up as raison d'etre to get the cane out. Conversely, a child whom was favoured by a teacher who's behaviour warranted this type of punishment would only get a stern telling off.

 

Yes, it was a very harsh means of punishment (along with the board ruler, strap and others) but it's fair to say that most of the children who were disciplined learnt from it that there were boundaries and expectations of them. Also, didn't some of the bad children of yesteryear deserve six of the best if they had severely misbehaved in school - i.e. damaging property or bullying fellow pupils?

 

As I said before, we are so keen to teach children their rights that we forget to mention they have responsibilities. Hence, you now have some children who are out of control because Mum and Dad are scared to discipline them for fear of a) losing them to the Social Services and/or being branded as child abusers.

 

Thank you for nothing Nanny Blair!