This season budgets

[glimmer_man]

Ha ha, yes i do!!! but i still have costs on this... but this is an agreement with FG Barnes of Guildford!!!

 

I am not saying i am a martyr etc, but i am just sticking up for managers out there who do work their socks off, and is my personal view that if they can get paid for their time then i think they deserve it...

 

Duncs stated his point, and i stated mine...

 

Bakes

 

Quality!

Agree with you on this one.

Good luck for season Neil.

[NCEL fan]

In support of Neil's point that manager's do deserve to be paid, if I was a chairman and I knew a man was the best manager for the job bar none, I'd be happy to pay him. Most fans know very little about the amount of work managers do - most managers I know of put in 15-20 hours a week, some more.

 

Unlike players, 90% of whom seem to switch off minutes after the final whistle, the game consumes the mind of the manager and the 1/2 games plus 1/2 training sessions are simply the result of a lot of hard work and prep from that man. That usually means a lot of time and money spent on the phone.

 

At step 5/6, there are usually less in the way of volunteers to help with admin so it's not just the planning and execution of football matters the gaffer ends up sorting out.

 

To be fair, there are players who take responsibility for more than just turning up - whether that's the new breed of players who do lots more to look after their bodies like stretching, extra fitness work etc or the senior players who communicate with the gaffer/coach about footballing matters and take responsibility that way. I still think the large majority of players don't "live" the game enough though, which unless they are exceptional on the pitch, means they are not as deserving of any money they receive.

 

So for me, the manager deserves it as much if not more than the vast majority of players who pick up the brown envelope.

[duncs]

This is all very enlightening but for me i would give the money to the players and not the managers, yes it is a very time consuming job if done properly but part of the job is to get the best team on the pitch that you can and if that means spending all of the money available on players then thats what I would do but thats only my opinion I dont think anyone should be paid at this level anyway.

[NCEL fan]

No good having a load of charlie's if the guy who has to organise, motivate and gel them isn't good enough to do that. I'd rather have a group of 40 quid footballers with a top manager than a group of 50 quid footballers with a manager who doesn't have a plan B or doesn't comman their respect.

 

Re players getting paid, it's largely a matter of market conditions. I'd also say paying them money means you can expect more from them - stick, carrot and all that. Not sure what level of football is too low for players to be paid, but unless you have a very, very special mix of local pride, excellent condiitons for players to operate in, the right leadership etc (yes, Guernsey FC which for me is an absolute one off and even then, they are not guaranteed any success next season), it's very difficult to be successful at Step 5. The side with the biggest budget doesn't always win, but it's usually a side with a competitive budget that does.

[Smudge]

NCEL what is a competitive Budget at Step 5?History tells me that you cannot get promoted out of Step 5,without money being paid.If you paid every squad player £40 that would equate to £640 a week.Say they train twice a week,and play once a week,that is not unusual,12 hours say,just over £3 per hour,not including petrol also.Would you do it?Say they were a blinding team and got promoted,would they be retained by the Club,as loyalty is not a one way thing.

[The Mayor Of Simpleton]

I think that the scale from Steps 1-6 is something like this:

 

Step 1 - £300-£500

Step 2 - £200-£300

Step 3 - £150-£200

Step 4 - £100-£150

Step 5 - £50-£100

Step 6 - £0-£50

 

I know that certain players at Gloucester are on the Step 2 figures.

Edited June 11, 2012 by AdamKing(wasAK11)

[offside]

NCEL what is a competitive Budget at Step 5?History tells me that you cannot get promoted out of Step 5,without money being paid.If you paid every squad player £40 that would equate to £640 a week.Say they train twice a week,and play once a week,that is not unusual,12 hours say,just over £3 per hour,not including petrol also.Would you do it?Say they were a blinding team and got promoted,would they be retained by the Club,as loyalty is not a one way thing.

 

That,s a fair point Smuge but you have turned a sport into a business breaking it down to a hourly rate,at this leavel no way can it be a viable business,,theres many sports where pepole train much longer than twice a week and not get a penny even repersent their country,but for some reason give a footballer desent conditions good ground ect he wants money because he has to train twice a week and play the game he loves,!? so what happens a chairman comes in splashes the cash and dose the work for the FA if clubs struggle to survive the powers above would have to step in and help out clubs at this leavel,times have changed the club house dosn,t stay full till 11pm the players have a beer the shoot of so the clubs income falls but there overheads raise,,

[NICE GUY]

It may not be word for word but for a £500 bet you would think the chairman would have the balls to say how much he was out with his £65 k remark thats if he,s wrong at the end of the day if you guys are happy throwing pots of money at trying to get out of this league thats fine but with the baggage the club seem to have maybe a bit of transparency might help?

 

Offside, the chairman wouldn't need to say how much he was out by just whom is correct in their statements. I would also add that we don't have any baggage because we're a new club but, if we did have any, it would still only be our business and nobody elses !

 

You seem to be missing the point of my posts though which are primarity to call NG out. He comes on gving it this and that so I've simply asked him to back up his bullshit by accepting a bet [for charity]. To date he's declined my offer when, if his facts were based on truth, he should be biting my hand off, so does that mean he's admitting that he's a bullshitter or just doesn't have the balls to back up his claims. Either way if he declines the challenge at least everyone who uses this forum will know for a fact that they should no longer listen to his spoutings as he couldn't even be bothered to confirm his so-called inside information even when claiming it had come from sources inside the club.

 

My offer of a bet stands for one week only at which point he has to grow a pair and front up or slink away into the place where internet Trolls usually hang out !

 

But have I declined your offer, have i said as much ?

 

But how do you intend to prove my ''b*llshit'' is incorrect ?

 

As I said in my original reply, I expect Windsor FC to supply me with written evidence (not fake evidence) as to how much Windsors budget is IF I am wrong. Are Windsor prepared to do that ?......

[Big J R]

It may not be word for word but for a £500 bet you would think the chairman would have the balls to say how much he was out with his £65 k remark thats if he,s wrong at the end of the day if you guys are happy throwing pots of money at trying to get out of this league thats fine but with the baggage the club seem to have maybe a bit of transparency might help?

 

Offside, the chairman wouldn't need to say how much he was out by just whom is correct in their statements. I would also add that we don't have any baggage because we're a new club but, if we did have any, it would still only be our business and nobody elses !

 

You seem to be missing the point of my posts though which are primarity to call NG out. He comes on gving it this and that so I've simply asked him to back up his bullshit by accepting a bet [for charity]. To date he's declined my offer when, if his facts were based on truth, he should be biting my hand off, so does that mean he's admitting that he's a bullshitter or just doesn't have the balls to back up his claims. Either way if he declines the challenge at least everyone who uses this forum will know for a fact that they should no longer listen to his spoutings as he couldn't even be bothered to confirm his so-called inside information even when claiming it had come from sources inside the club.

 

My offer of a bet stands for one week only at which point he has to grow a pair and front up or slink away into the place where internet Trolls usually hang out !

 

But have I declined your offer, have i said as much ?

 

But how do you intend to prove my ''b*llshit'' is incorrect ?

 

As I said in my original reply, I expect Windsor FC to supply me with written evidence (not fake evidence) as to how much Windsors budget is IF I am wrong. Are Windsor prepared to do that ?......

 

Why should they ? Anyway, it's none of your busines.

 

Just for the record, IF I was really interested, I could make one phone call and find out the facts, but rest assured, I WOULDN'T TELL YOU OR ANYONE ELSE !

 

As for Step 2 players getting £200-£300 a week - I hope the jolly old tax man is kept informed !

Edited June 11, 2012 by Big J R

[NICE GUY]

But you never took up the challenge, put to you did you?You as usual, just asked another question.Now lets delve a little deeper,into you knowing what was their original budget last season.The only way you could of known this first hand,and been so sure of your facts,is that you were interviewed for the Managers Position.Then because of Sour Grapes,you have harked on about it,ever since.IS THAT NOT THE TRUTH?

 

WRONG TWO FACE !!! Never mind how I know and certainly don't have sour grapes........I harked on about ''it'' 'cos of the Windsor Forumites denial until their Chairman admitted at the end of last season...

 

Again TWO FACE if you read my previous posts about Windsor in general, you will find them very complimentary......

 

As far as I recall, the denials were based on the nonsensical amounts that you were quoting. Who denied that there was a budget? No-one. And once again, for the record, WFC will not be divulging how much we spend. That IS a fact and you can quote me on this for the rest of the season.

 

So run along and make up your own conspiracy theories and imaginary amounts because whatever you may be told over the months to come, it won't be from any WFC official.

 

Did you ever play professionally for Sunderland?

But you never took up the challenge, put to you did you?You as usual, just asked another question.Now lets delve a little deeper,into you knowing what was their original budget last season.The only way you could of known this first hand,and been so sure of your facts,is that you were interviewed for the Managers Position.Then because of Sour Grapes,you have harked on about it,ever since.IS THAT NOT THE TRUTH?

 

WRONG TWO FACE !!! Never mind how I know and certainly don't have sour grapes........I harked on about ''it'' 'cos of the Windsor Forumites denial until their Chairman admitted at the end of last season...

 

Again TWO FACE if you read my previous posts about Windsor in general, you will find them very complimentary......

 

As far as I recall, the denials were based on the nonsensical amounts that you were quoting. Who denied that there was a budget? No-one. And once again, for the record, WFC will not be divulging how much we spend. That IS a fact and you can quote me on this for the rest of the season.

 

So run along and make up your own conspiracy theories and imaginary amounts because whatever you may be told over the months to come, it won't be from any WFC official.

 

Did you ever play professionally for Sunderland?

 

NO

[NCEL fan]

Smudge - I reckon Adam has a pretty accurate view though there are some points I'd make

 

- there are always exceptions, like Step 1 players on 800+

- In my experience, Step 4 and 5 are very similar. Players are often happy to play at 5 rather than 4 due to less travelling but expect decent money so bottom Step 4 is usually full of clubs with lower budgets than top Step 5 clubs

- Step 6 often has less than 6 or 7 sides paying money

 

One interesting point I'd make - budgets are no better than they were 10 years ago, and may even be lower.

 

Might knowledge comes from Northern football and the money was laergely similar to Adam's scale - I remember bemoaning the fact that some of the lads I knew playing in Ryman/Doc Martens were on 20% more than clubs in the Unibond. So if that was true, maybe money down south is down even more.

 

Only facts I can reference from football today are that a step 4 side last year started with an £800 a week budget and ended with £300, which basically meant kids playing. Step 5 sides I know pay between £160 and £220 a week to their top players in the NCEL and more so nowadays in the Northern League (with Darlo there next year, that really is going to be a league with some money flying around but importantly, increasing crowds). A mid table Step 5 side I know pay £800 a week but won't do that forever if they don't challenge for promotion.

 

Money's not the be all and end all people but it's an interesting subject and one that managers and players have to focus on, right or wrong, if they want to be successful at Step 5 and above.

[NCEL fan]

...and to add to that, just read on NLD that Spenny now have their whole squad on contracts, including 5 or 6 on 2 year contracts! The Northern League is full of sides (Spennymoor, Shildon, Whitley Bay, Darlo...) who will this season be paying big money.

 

Even mid table sides are paying £80 to steady but not top players in their ranks.

[NICE GUY]

It may not be word for word but for a £500 bet you would think the chairman would have the balls to say how much he was out with his £65 k remark thats if he,s wrong at the end of the day if you guys are happy throwing pots of money at trying to get out of this league thats fine but with the baggage the club seem to have maybe a bit of transparency might help?

 

Offside, the chairman wouldn't need to say how much he was out by just whom is correct in their statements. I would also add that we don't have any baggage because we're a new club but, if we did have any, it would still only be our business and nobody elses !

 

You seem to be missing the point of my posts though which are primarity to call NG out. He comes on gving it this and that so I've simply asked him to back up his bullshit by accepting a bet [for charity]. To date he's declined my offer when, if his facts were based on truth, he should be biting my hand off, so does that mean he's admitting that he's a bullshitter or just doesn't have the balls to back up his claims. Either way if he declines the challenge at least everyone who uses this forum will know for a fact that they should no longer listen to his spoutings as he couldn't even be bothered to confirm his so-called inside information even when claiming it had come from sources inside the club.

 

My offer of a bet stands for one week only at which point he has to grow a pair and front up or slink away into the place where internet Trolls usually hang out !

 

But have I declined your offer, have i said as much ?

 

But how do you intend to prove my ''b*llshit'' is incorrect ?

 

As I said in my original reply, I expect Windsor FC to supply me with written evidence (not fake evidence) as to how much Windsors budget is IF I am wrong. Are Windsor prepared to do that ?......

 

Why should they ? Anyway, it's none of your busines.

 

Just for the record, IF I was really interested, I could make one phone call and find out the facts, but rest assured, I WOULDN'T TELL YOU OR ANYONE ELSE !

 

As for Step 2 players getting £200-£300 a week - I hope the jolly old tax man is kept informed !

 

Hold on BJR Windsor Sec. called the tune and for a bet, do you honestly think I'm handing over £500 be it for charity without some form of evidence that I am wrong.....behave ! I have stated my cliam, now lets be more transparent Windsor Sec. lets be having you....... !,

[NICE GUY]

Duncs. i felt like responding to the last comment, that no manager should be paid, well even though i don't take a penny at Godalming, that is not to say managers don't deserve a penny, i feel that we deserve to get paid for the work Jon and i do, but at the same time we would prefer a better side, so forfeit any money we could take, as a better side will hopefully enhance the chances of our team, and therefore improving our reputations.

I think that most managers out there work their socks off, whether it is step 4, 5 or step 6, and to say they don't deserve a penny i think is unfair, if any manager out there is getting paid they probably do deserve it, i am sure when you bring in to the equation time spent talking to players, petrol costs, phone bills, (cost of burgers in my case ) etc then it is probably only going to cover costs if anything.

Infact i think that managing at step 6 is harder than step 4, and was a conversation i was having with Unders when we were driving down to the Ryman awards last night (and i am speaking from experience having started at step 6 with Fleet Spurs), at step 4 a lot of the lads are geared up for training Tuesdays and Thursdays, and expect to travel for games, and just get on with it, and we do not find ourselves having to ring players to make sure they are going to be at grounds on time, whereas when i was at Fleet i would be constantly on the phone making sure that players had left (when we were travelling down to the coast for example) also you would find that the players did not have the same commitment (not saying that is the case for everyone) when it came to things like training etc, often i would get a text message 5 minutes before sessions were starting to say they were caught at work etc etc....

Knowing how much time i put into management personally, and that i am not alone in the hours i put in, then any manager that takes money good luck to you!!!

In terms of budgets very few teams will be open and honest about what they are paying, and you can understand people keeping that close to their chests, but that is usually for the reasons they do not want players trying it on etc, you only have to look at the Havant chairman coming out in the press and saying what types of players he is looking to sign and the fact that they would be happy to pay £1000 a week for a top striker, he has just made his managers job very hard when it comes to agreeing terms with players, as they all know they are paying out fortunes... which can sometimes attract the wrong type of player also.

 

Anyway that is just my 2 pennies worth... hope everyone is having a good off season, and is looking forward to it all starting again ( i know i am)

 

Yeah Neil, well said and you will see others agree with me by the amount of ''likes'' received in comparison to none Dunc the Unc have. Being a so called 'fake' which I obviously am I have stated on many occasions, that in my experience and opinion, Ryman and Southern League (step 4) players are more professional in their outlook, stronger, committed and attitude is far better than those of some at CCL level, which again as stated, is a glorified Sunday morning league level in my opinion

 

I found there to be a difference in players in level 4 and level 5 but not particulary at skill but a mental attitude. Why are we in general always saying that some players at CCL can/should play at a higher level ?

[Foxy10]

I think that the scale from Steps 1-6 is something like this:

 

Step 1 - £300-£500

Step 2 - £200-£300

Step 3 - £150-£200

Step 4 - £100-£150

Step 5 - £50-£100

Step 6 - £0-£50

 

I know that certain players at Gloucester are on the Step 2 figures.

 

I think you'll find the average players pick up past Step 5 can often be a lot higher than that AK. I've been at, and know of, Step 4 clubs that paid up to £200 to certain players (albeit the star player(s)) and Step 2 clubs that pay some strikers far in excess of £500! Ironically, most of the clubs where this happened underachieved and the said players left before the end of the season for clubs with brighter outlooks. In my opinion any player playing in the Conference is worth their money due to the travelling, time commitment etc. but below that there are a lot of players that pick up very good money for the bare minimum. You only have to look at Molesey & Hanworth Villa to see that success isn't always built on money.

[bomaya]

Money's not the be all and end all people but it's an interesting subject

 

Indeed it is so not sure why it often gets shouted down as "none of your business".

[TRS]

NG, how about YOU provide written evidence to confirm how you 'know' the Windsor budget?

 

What you hear may be correct but it may also be complete bollox, unless you have evidence to prove otherwise??

[NICE GUY]

NG, how about YOU provide written evidence to confirm how you 'know' the Windsor budget?

 

What you hear may be correct but it may also be complete bollox, unless you have evidence to prove otherwise??

 

If I produce will Windsor do the same I ask ?

[jertzee]

Money is the root of all evil.

[bomaya]

Money is the root of all evil.

 

"the love of money is the root of all evil"