FA Abandon Step 5 Changes

[Big J R]

Although at first it seems the FA made the right decision, you have to take into account that the main reason they they didn't put their changes through is that they ran out of biscuits, couldn't agree on who was going to nip out to the Londis to buy some more and then forgot what they were debating when they came back from their port laden lunch.

 

P-R-I-C-E-L-E-S-S

[Green_Fingers]

 

As I think I understand it (but could easily be wrong on this), there will be an extra four clubs at Step Three (again, in our area), which means that for those in the Ryman catchment area there would be 6 extra spaces and maybe 8 if you include the increase at Step Three in Southern League too) to allocate amongst (probably) the home counties leagues. Surely the Combined Counties will get at least two of those next season in addition to the Champions.

 

 

Ed reading it again my view is that there will be just 2 additional spaces available at Step 4 at the end of next season. There will be 16 slots available - 10 from the increased Step 3 / Step 4 moves plus 6 from the guaranteed relegation of bottom Clubs at Step 4. These 16 places will be filled by the 14 Step 5 Champions plus 2 others - presumably those with best PPG. As you say though, it would be interesting to view Whitelaws take on it

[E&E Rich]

I was working on the premise that the Ryman League must take on 6 new clubs to get from 66 to the 72 it is planning. The Southern League is increasing by two places, hence the eight I came up with.

 

At least, that's my theory!

[Green_Fingers]

I was working on the premise that the Ryman League must take on 6 new clubs to get from 66 to the 72 it is planning. The Southern League is increasing by two places, hence the eight I came up with.

 

At least, that's my theory!

 

I think your theory is too optimistic for Step 5 Clubs Ed - remember the Committee had no Step 5 representation and those on it are more likely to serve the interests of Step 3 & Step 4 Clubs. Movements to increase League numbers are, in my opinion, more likely be achieved by reducing relegation spots and boundary changes moving Clubs southwards.

 

The popular view from the anoraks (with apologies to VP) on the another forum is that at the end of next season only 2 teams will get relegated from each of the Step 3 Leagues (6 in total rather than the usual 12) whilst the normal 2 will be promoted from each of the 6 Step 4 Leagues. Step 3 will then have its 3 Leagues of 24, whilst Step 4 will only relegate their bottom teams meaning just 16 teams are needed to make up the proposed 136. The 14 Step 5 Champions (or runners-up / 3rd placed if Champions cannot be promoted) will take most of those places leaving just the 2 extra slots to be filled. I hope I'm wrong and that more opportunities may exist for Step 5 Clubs but if I were a gambling man I know where my money would be placed

[TRS]

Well hats off to the FA (and I never expected to be saying that!), I like others assumed it was a done deal. Really pleased to leave things as they are. I want trips to Cove and Sandhurst not Hassocks and East Grinstead! Bet the Sussex lot are over the moon too. It did always seem to me that they were taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

[Confused]

As I think I understand it (but could easily be wrong on this), there will be an extra four clubs at Step Three (again, in our area), which means that for those in the Ryman catchment area there would be 6 extra spaces and maybe 8 if you include the increase at Step Three in Southern League too) to allocate amongst (probably) the home counties leagues. Surely the Combined Counties will get at least two of those next season in addition to the Champions.

 

 

Ed reading it again my view is that there will be just 2 additional spaces available at Step 4 at the end of next season. There will be 16 slots available - 10 from the increased Step 3 / Step 4 moves plus 6 from the guaranteed relegation of bottom Clubs at Step 4. These 16 places will be filled by the 14 Step 5 Champions plus 2 others - presumably those with best PPG. As you say though, it would be interesting to view Whitelaws take on it

 

Surely there will be 6 places created at step 4 at the southern end of the country after step 3 has taken their four. That creates 6 extra places needing to be filled from step 5. On top of that, step 5 leagues must have at least 20 clubs to be accredited in the pyramid. That means Essex and Kent, at least, have to do something radical (like amalgamating) to maintain their status. In other words. we are well on the way to having just 12 step 5 leagues sought by the FA. Or am I confused!

[NICE GUY]

It would certainly make sense for the FA to start increasing the Kent numbers this summer.

 

Whether it will happen is another idea though.

 

Certainly you'd have to fancy Chessington's chances of survival now.

 

Chessington & Hook survival to the detriment of Hartley Wintney...?

[AK11]

The Western League is mooted to have a future 24/22 allocation at Steps 5 and 6, and with Trowbridge dropping to Step 7 and Wallingford and Kintbury unable to take promotion as well as Cribbs Friends Life FC joining the Western, the Hellenic's future is in doubt.

 

I can see a few clubs like Letcombe possibly moving over to the Combined Counties, whilst sides like Milton United are reported to be dropping back a league.

[Chris Clapham]

The Western League is mooted to have a future 24/22 allocation at Steps 5 and 6, and with Trowbridge dropping to Step 7 and Wallingford and Kintbury unable to take promotion as well as Cribbs Friends Life FC joining the Western, the Hellenic's future is in doubt.

 

I can see a few clubs like Letcombe possibly moving over to the Combined Counties, whilst sides like Milton United are reported to be dropping back a league.

 

 

NEVER!!!

[AK11]

The Western League is mooted to have a future 24/22 allocation at Steps 5 and 6, and with Trowbridge dropping to Step 7 and Wallingford and Kintbury unable to take promotion as well as Cribbs Friends Life FC joining the Western, the Hellenic's future is in doubt.

 

I can see a few clubs like Letcombe possibly moving over to the Combined Counties, whilst sides like Milton United are reported to be dropping back a league.

 

 

NEVER!!!

 

Well I hope not either, but the fact is the Hellenic loses sides year in year out and isn't in a position to replace them. Wallingford and Kintbury, who have the facilities, finished way down their respective Step 7 leagues and also neither have the finances to play in the Hellenic any more.

 

Milton United are rumoured to be dropping back into the Oxfordshire League, so that robs the Hellenic D1 East of a side if the bottom side isn't reprieved. Trowbridge Town are also taking a step back as well (Hellenic D1 West > Wiltshire League) and there's no sign that anybody from the Wiltshire League will move up. The only side that could are FC Sanford who play at Supermarine (Swindon). Cribbs FL are going to the Western along with possibly Nailsea United.

 

The Hellenic, in my opinion, needs to have one league and not two at Step 6. I think this change will happen soon, with some sides moved into other leagues. A 22/22 format would be far better imho than 21/17 & 16.

[E&E Rich]

I am aware that some clubs higher up will be reprieved as opposed to promoting lots of extra clubs and rightly so in this case, as it would seem harsh to promote a side in third or fourth while relegating a Step Four side.

 

However, the fact remains that there need to be at least six (maybe 8) extra spots and if the Ryman League is the one doing the expanding and taking a third relegation place, then it makes sense for the majority if not all of the new clubs to come from the home Counties area.

 

Bearing in mind that some leagues in our area don't always promote, then I think it is a good opportunity for the bottleneck in our division to be alleviated a little by promoting at least one but more possibly two extra teams from our division next year.

 

With all of this scheduled for August 2013 still, whether Chessington and maybe Mole Valley get a reprieve will come down to how quickly the FA want to get the Kent and Essex Leagues up to 20 teams. If they do move Whyteleafe (if they come down) and Croydon into Kent this season it will help on that front.

 

Actually this may open a huge can of worms this summer. If the FA decide to increase the Kent League numbers rapidly, then this could mean the transfer of not just Whyteleafe and maybe Croydon, but some Sussex clubs too, with the knock on effect of some of our "closest to Sussex" clubs moving into the Sussex League.

 

Regardless of the Sussex league getting a "reprieve" from the original changes doesn't mean that the FA won't still try and trim the size of the Sussex League at both ends. You still feel that their most extreme geographical clubs could be leaving, especially those in the East of the County.

 

For example, if the Kent League need to go from 16 to 20. any of Sidley, Hailsham, Uckfield, East Grinstead, Crowborough and Rye could move ahead of Whyteleafe and Croydon, but this could then also mean Horley and possibly Guernsey moving into the Sussex League to balance.

 

Just a possibility!

Edited May 14, 2012 by E&E Ed

[Lee Farmie]

I'd add Lingfield (& maybe even Redhill) to your list of potential Sussex to Kent clubs. I also think they need to chance the names of Kent ansd Sussex leagues. The FA don't want "county Leagues" at step 5 and no one's particularly comfortable with geographical anomalies such as a Surrey side playing in a Sussex or a Kent league.

[Chris Clapham]

I still think Essex and Kent could merge and become "The Two Counties Premier League"

[Lee Farmie]

Do you own shares in the Dartford Crossing?

 

 

[AK11]

Essex and Kent joining forces has been mooted before. Would be easier IMHO to merge Sussex and Kent and Essex with the Ridgeons.

 

That might then save the Hellenic, if the Western League only takes clubs from Bristol, Gloucestershire and West Wiltshire and the Hellenic only takes clubs from East Wiltshire, Oxfordshire and North Berkshire. South Berkshire clubs could easily go to the Combined Counties.

 

Wiltshire is currently a basket-case to sort out, as teams there can play in one of three leagues at Step 5 & 6 (Western, Hellenic and Wessex). I'm all for fixed boundaries if it stops overlapping of leagues.

 

Step 5, ideally, should look like this:

 

1. South West Peninsula Premier (surely wouldn't take much to elevate most of the clubs at Step 6 to the required grade)

2. Western Premier

3. Hellenic Premier

4. Wessex Premier

5. Sussex County League Division 1

6. Kent League

7. Combined Counties

8. Spartan South Midlands

9. United Counties League

10. Essex Senior League

11.Ridgeons Eastern Counties

12. West Midlands Alliance

13. East Midlands Alliance

14. North West Counties

15. North East Counties

16. Northern League Division 1

 

Add in a Midlands League at Step 3, and two feeder leagues at Step 4, and you'll get 1-2-4-8-16.

[E&E Rich]

I think it's fair to say that if the answer was a simple merger between two leagues, it would have happened by now!

 

As far as I am concerned the most interesting thing now is when they start moving teams about and which ones will move. Whether they will start to fill Kent and Essex now or wait until August 2013.

[Don't Blame Me]

Essex and Kent joining forces has been mooted before. Would be easier IMHO to merge Sussex and Kent and Essex with the Ridgeons.

 

That might then save the Hellenic, if the Western League only takes clubs from Bristol, Gloucestershire and West Wiltshire and the Hellenic only takes clubs from East Wiltshire, Oxfordshire and North Berkshire. South Berkshire clubs could easily go to the Combined Counties.

 

Wiltshire is currently a basket-case to sort out, as teams there can play in one of three leagues at Step 5 & 6 (Western, Hellenic and Wessex). I'm all for fixed boundaries if it stops overlapping of leagues.

 

Step 5, ideally, should look like this:

 

1. South West Peninsula Premier (surely wouldn't take much to elevate most of the clubs at Step 6 to the required grade)

2. Western Premier

3. Hellenic Premier

4. Wessex Premier

5. Sussex County League Division 1

6. Kent League

7. Combined Counties

8. Spartan South Midlands

9. United Counties League

10. Essex Senior League

11.Ridgeons Eastern Counties

12. West Midlands Alliance

13. East Midlands Alliance

14. North West Counties

15. North East Counties

16. Northern League Division 1

 

Add in a Midlands League at Step 3, and two feeder leagues at Step 4, and you'll get 1-2-4-8-16.

 

Still the best argument for restructuring that I have seen.

[AK11]

Thanks for that Windsor

 

I recently put that idea to a friend who has contacts on the South West Peninsula Committee. To my surprise, they didn't rule it out, but one of the main problems is that a lot of the Division 1 sides in Devon and Cornwall don't have floodlights. The football standard itself is very good, and I think that a lot of the current Step 7 sides could take on most Step 6 sides from outside the area and be more than a match for them.

 

The Midlands needs more than one Step 5 league - The Alliance could well be over-subscribed next season with 23 as Shepshed and Stourport have more or less been told they will be in that league for 2012-13. Personally, I would have moved Westfields (the Hereford side, not the Woking one) up as well to take the place of Andover Town - but of course the commandment is 'thou shalt only move up one team from Step 5.' A Midland Premier at Step 3, and a Midland West and Midland East Leagues at Step 4 would solve a lot of the bottle-necking problems IMHO.

[E&E Rich]

It would also remove almost all the Step Six clubs as you'd need another 66 clubs at Steps Three and Four, and as a result, you would need 110 new Step Five clubs to fil the gaps (assuming 22 club divisions). This would then have a bearing on ground gradings, as there may not be that many Step Six clubs who could move up.

 

You'd also need a lot more league administrators to deal with the new leagues.

 

It makes sense on paper to go down mathematically, but its not realistic in practice. Sorry!

Edited May 15, 2012 by E&E Ed

[Big J R]

Here is Redhill FC's slant, courtesy of the Surrey Mirror.

 

http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/Step-restructuring-plans-abolished/story-16107114-detail/story.html