What a great Season!!!!!

[Ace1]

Look forward to it and you can join the refs that run there. Many of your players going ?

I doubt it, hopefully just my boy!

[Rufus T Firefly]

Ace 1...

 

Assessors are there to assess the performance of the referee and give him areas on which to develop upon. You criticise referees and complain that they are not accountable, and now your moaning about assessors and seem to be indicating that they are pointless?

 

The suggestion that the assessors should be a 4th official is completely unworkable. Firstly assessors are only at approx 50% of games, so you would then half of games with a 4th official and half with not. How would the assessor properly analyse the performance of the three officials by standing in between the two benches for ninety minutes, whilst also managing the benches and doing the substitutions? Most assessors take detailed notes throughout the game to aid them with their report and feedback, they wouldn't be able to do this if they acted as the 4th official.

 

The quality of some assessors is a problem, and it is something that the FA are working extremely hard to address. I do agree that match officials are often given too much notice of being assessed, I think it's right that the referee has some pre warning, but I'd see no reason why the notice period should be any more than 2 hours before kick off.

 

I would be interested to know the reason behind your club's fine. It certainly doesn't seem fair that you were fined for marking a referee low if you gave constructive and thought out criticism of the referees performance.

 

Smudge...

 

As I have said above officials are demoted at the end of the season based on club marks and assessment marks, to say that this does not happen is completely untrue.

 

By saying a table is needed to give an incentive to referees is, I believe, slightly disrespectful to referees. Referees take their job very seriously as it is and they put in a lot of time and and effort to officiate the games. Every official goes out with the intention of refereeing to the best of their ability, a referee never goes out with the intention of making the wrong decision.

Curious?

"Officials are demoted?"

On what basis? I am led to believe its a GRADE system,please explain how it works as you seem to know they are demoted.There are several refs in the CCL that should NOT be there.I would like to know how the league decides and is it ever really enforced?

As I tend to agree with Smudge,"beloved officials,all are saints"

[Rufus T Firefly]

Smudge,

 

As I've said on here before publishing a league table with officials marks would be counter productive in many ways.

 

Clubs would undoubtedly pre judge (and possibly pre mark) referees before a game even begins. The job is hard enough as it is, without both teams being aware that (based on club and assessor marks) you are bottom of the 'officials table'. This would hardly discourage dissent, diving, play acting etc, as some players may feel they were able to influence or con referees lower down on the officials table.

 

It would also do little to encourage people from becoming a referee. The pressure and scrutiny is enough as it is without a officials table being published.

 

What good do you think publishing such a table will have Smudge?

Can you blame the players?

I think not,as refs seem to get most decisions wrong in the first place!! So if a foul is NOT given when fully deserved,then next time a little theatrics will do the job,players know that.Watch 25/30 games a season and guaranteed you will watch at most 5 well refereed games.FACT,As for pre marking them down,Im quite sure refs also have a game plan against clubs they dont like and also their favorites,Just human nature.

[Observer 89]

For Level 4's the Football Association, rather than the Combined Counties League, control the promotion/demotion of referees. If a referee finishes in the bottom 20% (ie Band E) of marks for both clubs and assessors they will be demoted. The only exception is for referees in their first season as a Level 4, they cannot be demoted in their first season. I believe that CCL itself has no power to demote or remove Level 4 referees.

 

I believe the CCL has a similar system for dealing with Level 5 referees (who officiate on Div 1 games)

 

The FA have recently made it harder for demoted referees to return to Level 4, by not allowing demoted referees to apply for promotion back to Level 4 straight away. They now have to wait at least one season before re-applying, meaning that even if they are successful they will not be able to referee at Level 4 standard for approx 2 years after their promotion.

 

The FA have for next season made the fitness test for referees harder and they are also putting assessors under much greater scrutiny to ensure that the quality of assessments is improved, and that assessors are more consistent in their marking. Certainly more could be done to improve refereeing standards, but it's incorrect to think that the CCL and the FA aren't working hard to improve these standards.

 

Smudge - No one believes that all officials are angles and/or perfect.

 

Ace 1 - of course all suggestions to improve refereeing are welcome, I'm just explaining why in practice your idea regarding 4th officials is highly impractical, and would lower the quality of feedback from the assessor/4th official, rather than improve it.

[inbetweener]

completely agree with ace on refereeing the standard has definately dropped some just unbelievable decisions more referees making comments to players and feeling that they are the centre of attention and a lot of comments on this forum every week about a ref being poor , dont get me wrong they have to put up with a lot of grief from players and managers but i believe the standard has dropped

[Mewcenary]

I step away for a few moments and miss all the fun of this thread!

[Jurg78]

Let's be honest, your own players cost you far more points per season that any officials do!

 

To quote one of Krooners fav sayings "we aren't the Premier League, so don't expect Premier standard officials"!

I'm not saying that improvements can't be made, as they always can, but at the end of the day, no officals means no matches at this level and I'd rather have a [****!!****] offical than none at all!!

[E&E Rich]

That's a little defeatist Jurg, as if to suggest that they are the only two options, useless or none at all. We've often heard this story about losing many refs each year, yet UEFA and FIFA want extra ones to stand around on the goalline doing very little. There are plenty of refs at this level and the best ones get the respect they deserve.

 

I cannot see why there isn't a published league table though. You don't get players saying, "oh no, we're at the bottom of the league, I'm embarrassed, they shouldn't really publish that table, as teams will think we're easy to beat". Players will do what they can to get away from the bottom. If people know a ref is at the bottom, then he has to improve, regardless of any pre-judged opinions some might have. He has been moved up to level 4 by the powers that be, so obviously they feel he can cope. It's the secrecy that is the issue.

[Krooner]

Smudge,

 

As I've said on here before publishing a league table with officials marks would be counter productive in many ways.

 

Clubs would undoubtedly pre judge (and possibly pre mark) referees before a game even begins. The job is hard enough as it is, without both teams being aware that (based on club and assessor marks) you are bottom of the 'officials table'. This would hardly discourage dissent, diving, play acting etc, as some players may feel they were able to influence or con referees lower down on the officials table.

 

It would also do little to encourage people from becoming a referee. The pressure and scrutiny is enough as it is without a officials table being published.

 

What good do you think publishing such a table will have Smudge?

Can you blame the players?

I think not,as refs seem to get most decisions wrong in the first place!! So if a foul is NOT given when fully deserved,then next time a little theatrics will do the job,players know that.Watch 25/30 games a season and guaranteed you will watch at most 5 well refereed games.FACT,As for pre marking them down,Im quite sure refs also have a game plan against clubs they dont like and also their favorites,Just human nature.

 

Now I have read some b*llocks on here in my time but that has to be the best example. Looking forward to Smudge having a pop at you the same way he did with Observer.

 

Ace at the start of the season a suggestion was made that all clubs invite a local Step 4 referee to their training to explain any law changes and do a Q+A. did you club do that ? Perhaps you could speak with your county FA and get an invite to some IST's that take place.

 

Ed because a league table is about clubs and not individuals. Perhaps we could start having a published league table for players cautioned by dissent so all referees know which players like to gob off a lot and can deal with them in the 1st minute ? all will that be prejudicial ?

 

I watched with interest the debate amongst a lot of my friends from Sundays game. A number of them, many qualified football coaches, slated the match referee for not sending Czch off for his foul leading to Spurs goal. Qualified coaches teaching kids and they did not even know a basic law !!!

 

We all want a Utopia and frankly it isnt going to work ever. What we need is a little more dialogue and understanding from BOTH sides. this is not a one way street guys and if it is so fecking easy why not become a referee yourself ?

[Jurg78]

I didn't suggest there were only 2 options though. Just said I'd rather a poor official than none at all. Yes they can improve, just as players can throughout a season.

[Green_Fingers]

Let's be honest, your own players cost you far more points per season that any officials do!

 

To quote one of Krooners fav sayings "we aren't the Premier League, so don't expect Premier standard officials"!

I'm not saying that improvements can't be made, as they always can, but at the end of the day, no officals means no matches at this level and I'd rather have a [****!!****] offical than none at all!!

 

And poor admin / not following rules can also cost far more points too

[Smudge]

Kroons as I stated in the original post,I personally think that the Officials that I have seen,have been decent bar 2.Now if Bale had known the Laws,he would of made no attempt to score,meaning Spurs would of had a Penalty,from which they would of probably scored,and Chelsea would of been down to 10 men.Different Ball game maybe.Atkinson did not issue Czech with a yellow, which was a mistake even if he played the advantage Law,he can go back and book him.Rufus's comments regarding bias by Officials,is a ludicrous statement,they try their best and are equal to both sides.The test for me will be if the 2 poor Refs that I have seen twice each this Season,are still Officiating at Premier Level next year.Then I will definitely know the system is floored.

[Krooner]

Not at all smudge. How many times have you seen them this season. They may just have had a poor game when you saw them.

 

correct with the failure to issue a caution though !!

[Don't Blame Me]

Hi winsor prog, as you remember a few weeks ago I got sent off for swearing at 1 of your players, now I know its not allowed but it happens all the time and I got sent off in the 90th min with no previous warnings, just to top it off I got a 3 match suspension for it. I think all we want is some sort of consistency if not from week to week at least during one 90 min game!

 

As far as consistency is concerned, you will never get consistency from one official to another but you would expect consistency from an official throughout a game. A 3 match ban for swearing at a player sounds ridiculous considering that, unfortuantely, swearing is endemic throughout football.

[Don't Blame Me]

Kroons as I stated in the original post,I personally think that the Officials that I have seen,have been decent bar 2.Now if Bale had known the Laws,he would of made no attempt to score,meaning Spurs would of had a Penalty,from which they would of probably scored,and Chelsea would of been down to 10 men.Different Ball game maybe.Atkinson did not issue Czech with a yellow, which was a mistake even if he played the advantage Law,he can go back and book him.Rufus's comments regarding bias by Officials,is a ludicrous statement,they try their best and are equal to both sides.The test for me will be if the 2 poor Refs that I have seen twice each this Season,are still Officiating at Premier Level next year.Then I will definitely know the system is floored.

 

Question is though Smudge, did the referees in question have off days? Heaven forbid that a player should ever have an off day. It does happen you know. You mention seeing 2 refs twice. Hardly representative of a season is it. Also, if you feel so strongly why don't you do what NG has been told to do on many occasions and get involved!

[Don't Blame Me]

And back to the original thread title, I think it speaks volumes that there are still 2 relegation spots up for grabs even at this late stage of the season.

[Smudge]

Not at all smudge. How many times have you seen them this season. They may just have had a poor game when you saw them.

 

correct with the failure to issue a caution though !!

 

2 times each Kroons,both times they were very poor.Same characteristics in both games.Shouting at Players,showing no respect at all.Any views on why mitoo do not show Refs names anymore,saw your name mentioned back in 2002,in the Premier happy days for sure.

[Krooner]

Blimey were computers invented when I did Prem games

 

Fair does. It will all depend on their average marks from clubs and assessors. I know more than 1 referee that has been demoted to a 5 and they will not be the last.

[Smudge]

Kroons as I stated in the original post,I personally think that the Officials that I have seen,have been decent bar 2.Now if Bale had known the Laws,he would of made no attempt to score,meaning Spurs would of had a Penalty,from which they would of probably scored,and Chelsea would of been down to 10 men.Different Ball game maybe.Atkinson did not issue Czech with a yellow, which was a mistake even if he played the advantage Law,he can go back and book him.Rufus's comments regarding bias by Officials,is a ludicrous statement,they try their best and are equal to both sides.The test for me will be if the 2 poor Refs that I have seen twice each this Season,are still Officiating at Premier Level next year.Then I will definitely know the system is floored.

 

Question is though Smudge, did the referees in question have off days? Heaven forbid that a player should ever have an off day. It does happen you know. You mention seeing 2 refs twice. Hardly representative of a season is it. Also, if you feel so strongly why don't you do what NG has been told to do on many occasions and get involved!

 

GET INVOLVED.No one would have me.Once was asked to be a Committee Member at Croydon Athletic back in the good old days,when I spent 7 days a week at the Club.Only attended 1 meeting though,not being a yes man,I only asked 2 Questions,Can I see the Accounts,not being a Limited Company at the time,if it failed all Committee Members where liable,for any debts encrued.Went down like a Lead Balloon.2 Question Why are we charging 50p for a carbonised coke,when the cost price is 8p,they had loads of Families with children attending at the time,A NICE LITTLE EARNER.Still if Hornchurch,Farnborough,Croydon Athletic and even your beloved Windsor and Eton,had a Committee Member like me,they would not of suffered the embarassment of going Bankrupt.For 7 years hard work,I did win Clubman of the Year Twice,reason I did everything for nothing.

[Jurg78]

Kroons as I stated in the original post,I personally think that the Officials that I have seen,have been decent bar 2.Now if Bale had known the Laws,he would of made no attempt to score,meaning Spurs would of had a Penalty,from which they would of probably scored,and Chelsea would of been down to 10 men.Different Ball game maybe.Atkinson did not issue Czech with a yellow, which was a mistake even if he played the advantage Law,he can go back and book him.Rufus's comments regarding bias by Officials,is a ludicrous statement,they try their best and are equal to both sides.The test for me will be if the 2 poor Refs that I have seen twice each this Season,are still Officiating at Premier Level next year.Then I will definitely know the system is floored.

 

Question is though Smudge, did the referees in question have off days? Heaven forbid that a player should ever have an off day. It does happen you know. You mention seeing 2 refs twice. Hardly representative of a season is it. Also, if you feel so strongly why don't you do what NG has been told to do on many occasions and get involved!

 

GET INVOLVED.No one would have me.Once was asked to be a Committee Member at Croydon Athletic back in the good old days,when I spent 7 days a week at the Club.Only attended 1 meeting though,not being a yes man,I only asked 2 Questions,Can I see the Accounts,not being a Limited Company at the time,if it failed all Committee Members where liable,for any debts encrued.Went down like a Lead Balloon.2 Question Why are we charging 50p for a carbonised coke,when the cost price is 8p,they had loads of Families with children attending at the time,A NICE LITTLE EARNER.Still if Hornchurch,Farnborough,Croydon Athletic and even your beloved Windsor and Eton,had a Committee Member like me,they would not of suffered the embarassment of going Bankrupt.For 7 years hard work,I did win Clubman of the Year Twice,reason I did everything for nothing.

 

 

 

That's one hell of a statement to make!!