Can the ESL.....

[piper]

 

*ahem* I think Messrs Cowley and Scopes might be doing ok after 'going on' from the ESL...

 

 

Golden boots my friend i think that Rod Stringer moved on post cowley and scopes making him as quoted "the last" manager to move onwards and upwards from the ESL.

Either way my point is still the same, SAME failing managers and SAME average players, season in and season out.

 

Jenks you are in my mind one of the wisest on here however once again we differ on this one. They are the only managers that will do the job but they are in many cases (not all) but many just wanabes who like to tell people they are "senior" managers and have peple call them "Gaffa". thats why the problems the league has are there. the people running the clubs and managers are in many cases just blokes who like football and are prepared to do he sh*t jobs behind the scenes. Hence the clubs are in such bad shape they cant attract quality managment just people who will do it or think they can. i respect the time and effort put in by these people but there are so many who seem to wander from club to club achieving nothing on the pitch different from the last club they were at. I dont want to get personal but you know who they are. if the football is no good then nobody new will come and watch. If i go and watch a game at Bowers on a tuesday and a game at hullbridge on a wednesday half the people watching will be the same. Many managers or coaches or officials of other teams. When managers leave or get the tin tac for failing at a club and then other clubs dont then employ them who knows perhaps things will improve.

[Basil-Don]

it always winds me up to hear the same old nonsense about Olympian League teams- well run,professional set ups,et cetera-then why dont they actually get a senior standard ground and get promoted to the ESL like Takeley actually did !!!

[piper]

it always winds me up to hear the same old nonsense about Olympian League teams- well run,professional set ups,et cetera-then why dont they actually get a senior standard ground and get promoted to the ESL like Takeley actually did !!!

 

Excellent....someone connected to Basildon Utd talking about getting ground "Up To Standard" made me chuckle a little Basil-don sorry just a little. I know that you need volunteers and cash to up keep the ground and you've been short of both for a while but it is a little ironic mate.

[Hookey]

We are a well run, non-professional set up and we have a shiny new rope that goes ALL the way round the pitch. Oh and new nets too.

[Basil-Don]

Piper we have a senior standard ground dont take my word for it ask the Football Association when Olympian League teams get likewise then they can join us in the senior ranks.

[Mark Hoffman]

When you say 'us' you surely aren't referring to Basildon Utd are you? After all, you have now resigned from 'senior' football.

[Basil-Don]

i was to referring to the ranks of 'senior' football which im still very much associated with and will be next season and probably many more seasons to come.

[piper]

On a serious note, the point isnt who has senior staus and who dont but the fact that many of the Olympian clubs are better run, better supported, have better support from volunteers and in many cases the games are better viewing. The "Senior Status" and "ground grading" only count come FA Cup & Vase in some cases, which of course is a great pair of competitions to be in but in fairness most seasons there are few that progress far enough to make real money from either (Southend Manor excluded this season). Personally I would rather a club survive then be in either of the big comps. I have a loose connection with Herongate FC and on saturday went to see them for the first time at Runwell in the olympian 1st Division. The pitch was in excellent condition (i'm told they have 2 groundsman) the facilities were good with a bar, tea bar and hot food available, there was at least 50-60 people watching and the game was very entertaining ( not as good as a top 3 or 4 clash of ESL but easily as good as many ESL games I have watched over the last couple of seasons). I dont go to very many games at this level but if the grounds, support and games are like this and better in the premier of the olympian then I would say that "Senior Staus" and "Ground Grading" proves little.

[Basil-Don]

that will be 50-60 supporters too tight to pay a £5 to get in to a senior match,im genuinely happy for Herongate FC that they are so well run and look forward to seeing them spending 200/300 grand on turning their pitch into a stadium so they can join the ESL.

im not having having a pop but why dont more of this wonderful park teams actually stop patting themselves on the back and do a Takeley and actually join the Senior ranks.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Basil-Don

[piper]

As I thought I had said I was attending the game at Runwell not Heronsgate (Aint been there for years) Your point about people being too tight to pay to watch senior game is exactly my point to you. You assume that because a team is issued the title senior club that the football is worthy of peoples support and £5. As I said, on saturday i watched a good game of football, locally, in very good surroundings for free. With the condition of grounds and clubhouses such as Basildon Utds (Sorry to say), with the standard of current footy being played in the ESL, the argument to convince people to go to senior games has to be stronger than just because they are senior. As for why dont these clubs spend ££££'s getting their grounds to meet the grading to join the ESL, why would they when at this point the ESL is far from the promised land. Your disrespect of calling these well run clubs park teams is not worthy of a football fan such as yourself and in the position of your own club seems a little foolish too. I'm sure that the facilities, support, volunteers and standard will be a stage better than Basildon Utds if the worse comes to the worse.

[Basil-Don]

again same old criticisms of ESL,actually we are step 5 you're step 7,we are senior clubs,we play in grounds we have sheltered stands,we produce programmes,we have floodlights but no now your argument is because our league is so poor Olympian League teams are not prepared to move up the footballing pyramid to join us. this is like Southend getting knocked out of the FA Cup in the 1st round every season because some of the Division one teams they may meet in the 2nd round have inferior grounds or their changing rooms arent up to standard,what olympian league teams mean is they are far happier patting themselves on the back than actually pushing themselves forward and moving on to greater things,so much easier standing on the touchlines and criticising others in life than actually risking it yourself.

[Boycie01]

Having been at Runwell for the previous 3 seasons, I can assure you there are plenty of teams that would love to go into the ESL. Unfortunately the sums are quite simple. When you add the cost of floodlights, turnstiles, a 6 ft fence around the pitch etc etc, then the dream of getting to the ESL is difficult enough. There are various other factors that I won't go into but in my opinion the 2 leagues should be kept seperate otherwise what's there to aim for? If i'm being totally honest, the ESL, apart from the top 4 clubs is not as good as it used to be.

[Stop Whinging]

Sadly Basil-Don, despite your hard work, I doubt if there are any Olympian sides who wish to emulate Basildon!. Nevertheless, I dont think we should get carried away with the standard of the Olympian League. I have watched a number of games this season in the EOFL, across all divisions , and the standard has certainly gone down over the past few seasons. The top of the League is the weakest I can remember , yet the players seem to think they are world beaters, better than their predecessors which they are not. Some of the managers spend the whole game berating the ref and are limited in ability . Takeley's elevation and development has been helped by a very generous benefactor. These people do not exist everywhere!. I think progress from the EOFL to Senior football will be few and far between the costs are just too great and senior football should not encourage ground sharers to join them as it will only back fire!. In my opinion the FA need to take a close look at the ESL and EOFL and perhaps form a step 6 league with development being less costly and progress to step 5 being the next step. As someone suggests else where perhaps a complete overhaul of the leagues needs to be undertaken to make football progress less expensive and encourages those able to progress to do so and those struggling at their current step to reconsider their status. What fun is there in struggling to pay the bills and watching the ground and bar falling apart just to boast that they are step 5 . Why should a club who ground share for years (ie Eton Manor) retain their senior status its crazy and a sign of the League's desperation. As for spending money to see the ESL games I really cannot see most of the clubs in the ESL being the choice of the locals when they have so many alternatives . A lot of people are struggling and a fiver is important to the individual why waste it on the ESL. Ultimately, its up to the FA to recognise the issues being faced by clubs and the fact the future of the game is in their hands ....I suspect we will be waiting forever!.

[piper]

Firstly, may i say how nice it is for a real debate on here without the agro and name calling, now as for the subject, surely we all realise that many olympian clubs are not going to risk laods of funds getting into a league that is at its lowest ebb for many years. This isnt about any one club but what a very valid point reguarding how good it is to be an ESL club when groundsharing is in place for various clubs, meaning they dont even have a ground and in some cases havent for a while. I have no idea how good Olympian league is compared to seasons gone as i havent been to many games, I just stated that at Runwell on Saturday the surroundings, people and football all were very comfortable for me to be around and as I have attended many ESL games over the past several years I would say what I experienced at Runwell easily match up to many places in the ESL if not better and it was free. The topic here is can the ESL survive with attendances as they are,i'm giving a valid reason why people dont go ESL. Of course there are many more reasons but as I stated much earlier, the football quality is the main reason for people to go out on a cold winters day/night and pay £5-£10 to watch a game. At the moment I would say (in my opinion) you can catch a free game locally of simular quality.

[Boycie01]

Average crowd at Runwell roughly 30ish but i have seen around 80ish on a few occasions. Great Club

[Talk_Is_Cheap]

Piper - Your now my favourite person on the forum.....well constructed, well thought out responses..!!

 

I agree with almost everything you say as well. I think the main point is that you can watch a decent olympian league game for free or if you are willing to pay, you can go to Concord, Canvey, GWR, H'Church to name but a few in the surrounding area.

 

Why pay £5 to watch and ESL game..?????

[Basil-Don]

so there you have it-Olympian teams could build stadiiums and install floodlights but they dont simply because the ESL is so poor,it kind of begs the question why dont they join the SSML or Ridgeons league??? but no you carry on taking the easier option -not playing midweek,not paying for linesmen,programmes,floodlights and a million other things all the time while patting yourselves on the back and telling yourselves how wonderfully your clubs are run,just keep playing it nice and safe and knocking others who dont live life in the comfort zone.

[Talk_Is_Cheap]

Richard - It'a ll to do with risk vs reward.

 

No one's syaying that it doesn't take more effort to run an ESL club, they are saying that there are well run clubs in the ESL who probably can't afford to play in the ESL or would put the club 'at risk' in oder to do so.

 

Now, if the ESL was in better shape then they may think it's a risk worth taking - but at the moment risk does not equal the reward.

 

Therefore something needs to change. I'm under the assumption that not every ESL ground is gonna improve and the players get better over night so there needs to be some kind of restructuring.

 

As you know, fencing, flood lights etc etc are expensive which is why EOL teams can't afford to get promoted to the ESL. If the FA relaxed the rules sligtly transition would be easier, relegation would exist and the league would be fresher. That in turn would bring new faces, players and mangers into the division.

 

I think the point Piper is trying to make is, the only people who benefit from the ground gradings etc is the FA in regards to its pyramid structure.

 

You have to admit that change is needed..!!!

[Basil-Don]

oh yes obviously things need to change particularly in a step 5 league like the ESL which seems to be struggling along with less fans and probably more importantly less volunteers each season,the real problem for clubs like Sawbo,Basildon,Burnham,Bowers and Witham is that the income from the Bar/Hall is forever decreasing,remember every club has its own business model so each club has its own unique problems,for clubs like APSA,Benegal,BGU all of this is irrevalent of course,while step 5 restructing is taking place if the ESL asked for 1-30/2pm kick offs then they really would be turkeys voting for christmas.

[Stop Whinging]

TIC and Richard - I think to keep things competitive and vibrant the FA need to freshen it all up. Hence the creation of a step 6 League that will have less financial burden on the clubs (ie earlier ko's) allow clubs to progress from the EOL to a Step 5 League in a more structured way (ie presentations for a variety of funding could be staggered) . There are a number of clubs in the EOL who have the desire to progress, own their own grounds but do not have benefactors so the evolution process has to be slower. Equally there are those struggling with Step 5 who may need to take a step back to consolidate and go forward again. Introducing the step 6 will allow both these to occur . Ultimately, it will make the Step 5 level stronger but that will never guarantee bums on either supporters or volunteer seats. Richard, I really do not think its the EOL patting themselves on the back but a plan to make the senior football in the county more vibrant and clubs being able to manage themselves better and allowing the strong , well financed and managed to progress. This will mean some in the ESL slip down the pecking order but clubs fall out the Football League its up to the club to ensure this does not happen. The FA need to help clubs in the interim by making decisions that save them money ie earlier ko's etc otherwise a lot of clubs will fall to the wayside.