Can the ESL.....

[Hookey]

... Continue to survive on p1ss poor attendances? e.g. Last night there were 12 at Clapton v Basildon Utd and 16 at Eton Manor v Sawbo.

 

This can't simply be put down to it being a sign of the times, not when you compare it to the Ridgeons Eastern Counties League, also Step 5. Here is a snapshot of their attendances for March so far!!!

http://football.mito...L2011&MonthNo=3

 

Some might argue that there is less competition for fans in those areas (fair point), as there are many Ryman clubs in the South Essex area alone, also the proximity to London and the lure of pro football.

 

So is it competiton, where fans are spoilt for choice, or the quality of football at Step 5? Maybe a bit of both!

 

Whaddya reckon?

 

 

 

.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Hookey

[Blood]

Looks even worse if clubs are going to fold as mentioned on other threads!

And reading about certain clubs discipline.

After watching alot football from both leagues this season (and other leagues) , i have to say that refs don't let

you get away with anything in the eastern counties & several games that i've watched

where there have been 10 man scraps in Essex senior would of resulted in 3 off in the

Ridgeons but normally result in one yellow card.

So maybe the football is more attractive to watch in the Ridgeons as its more about playing

to win games & not who wins the midfield fight.

Also the more obvious reasons such as you play more medium size towns instead of parts of

London & villages.

Witham are really the exception (apart from Basildon) & there attendances are ok.

Don't understand why a large town like Basildon dosn't get 300 - 500.

Anyway Just my opinion but pop along to a Ridgeons game & see for yourself.

[Mark Hoffman]

It is the same old story Hookey. The level of competition is too high and the quality of football is too low. Clubs at this level need a team of committed people off the field willing to give up their time to promote their club in an appropriate way but to take Basildon Utd as an example, Richard does everything himself. They then need to put together a side who play reasonably attractive football that may get a few bums on seats. In theory it is simple, but in reality very tough.

 

Rome wasn't built in a day but if a club can get this formula they are on to a winner.

[piper]

Hookey i have had my say on another thread, but the short version is that ESL is committing suicide. The clubs in it employ the same faces both players and managers/ coaches. If you dont get a game for one you sign for another if you get sacked at one club another gives you the job and you take your players. Too many managers at clubs that have continuously failed or won nothing but act like they have made it and too many players like wise. Dont want to get personal but there is a manager who has now been at one club 3 times and another twice and still yet to leave either out of the bottom half as well as being at other clubs yet still gets a job in ESL. He aint the only one the league needs a complete overhaul from within the clubs. If John doe is managing at rag [censored] rovers and gets sacked coz they are in bottom 5 then he gets a job a month later a another club, brings in 6/7 of his boys from rag [censored] rovers what is that going to do are people going to think "oh they will be good now i'll go and watch that team" NO!!!!!! New managers, new generation of players and a few risks taken by several clubs and who knows what might happen.

[Jenko]

I think it is a bit more complax than that to be honest Piper. Facilities, the area, the area's culture, finance, other local football clubs. other sports, pro clubs etc all have a major influence.

 

To us BGU as an example the area in which they play has a high Bengali population which up to now isn't very involved in football as spectators and in past neither as particpants. It is changing if the amount of players, managers, coaches from the Bengali population is anything to go by. But this won't change over night. As the young people grow up and look to football as their main sport and pass this onto their kids then things may change.

 

Just a thought.

[piper]

Sorry Jenko, it really is that simple. Your situation may be different but in genral the problems i mentioned are the fundemental problems ESL have. Last manger to go on from ESL and prove to be worthy is Rod Stringer most of the rest have gone round and round and achieved the same at different clubs within ESL or ran out of chances (which in the ESL takes some doing). How many players per season step up successfully to ryman after learning at ESL. remembering that each team signs about 30/40 players a season. % is very low.

[Mark Hoffman]

I agree with Piper. Short term loss for a long term gain.

[Jenko]

Piper we'll have to agree to disagree! LOL

[Golden Boots]

Sorry Jenko, it really is that simple. Your situation may be different but in genral the problems i mentioned are the fundemental problems ESL have. Last manger to go on from ESL and prove to be worthy is Rod Stringer most of the rest have gone round and round and achieved the same at different clubs within ESL or ran out of chances (which in the ESL takes some doing). How many players per season step up successfully to ryman after learning at ESL. remembering that each team signs about 30/40 players a season. % is very low.

 

*ahem* I think Messrs Cowley and Scopes might be doing ok after 'going on' from the ESL...

[Olafobi Bakayakadingdong]

I have looked into the Ridgeons league & it is a ridiculous comparison. Geographically the Essex League has to compete with locals supporting Arsenal, Chelsea, West Ham, Tottenham Hotspur & few more London clubs. You also have Southend United, Dagenham & other clubs in higher non leagues.

The Ridegeons League of East Anglia only has Norwich & Ipswich to compete with the local community clubs. They get the backing & the local money, which does not happen in Essex. You only have a small league as well. It would be better to close the league & demote teams into a larger step 6 league with the olympian league. My friend tells me the standard is very good, he plays for Harold Wood.

[Hookey]

I have looked into the Ridgeons league & it is a ridiculous comparison. Geographically the Essex League has to compete with locals supporting Arsenal, Chelsea, West Ham, Tottenham Hotspur & few more London clubs. You also have Southend United, Dagenham & other clubs in higher non leagues.

The Ridegeons League of East Anglia only has Norwich & Ipswich to compete with the local community clubs. They get the backing & the local money, which does not happen in Essex. You only have a small league as well. It would be better to close the league & demote teams into a larger step 6 league with the olympian league. My friend tells me the standard is very good, he plays for Harold Wood.

 

Good shout Mr Olawotsit, that was exactly my point and I highlighted the same competition for fans that you have. Even though the Ridgeons is Step 5, it is miles ahead of the ESL and not just in terms of attendances, which begs the question, should the ESL even be Step 5 anymore? I like your idea of a Step 6 with the better Olympian clubs, though this may be harsh on the better ESL clubs.

[Talk_Is_Cheap]

In my opinion the ESL is in a right old mess for a whole host of reasons.

 

Clubs are struggling financially, therefore the grounds, facilitys and playing surfaces are poor, I wont say the standard of players is poor, but the style of play is terrible and hellish to watch, I also agree with the point above regarding the managers as well.

 

I think, from a players perspective the ESL offers very little these days, its a massive commitment, very few get paid, they don't enjoy the style of football, it's not the shop window it once was and they don't particularly enjoy the grounds they play at...........therefore they choose to play in the ESL because there mates do (Which is why you always get the same old faces), try and play higher or drop down to the EOL.

 

There are a few exceptions to the above of course, but back in the day, the reason you played in the ESL was to test yourself against and play at grounds such as Brentwood, Concord, Hornchurch, Waltham Abbey, Romford, Enfield, Ilford etc all good sides and good grounds.

 

The rest of the sides were then made up with the competative games and reasonable grounds like Southend Manor and Burnham (The second of which used to have a decent budget as well) and because of these 'bigger sides' the smaller clubs could cover costs from the bigger gates,

 

As a player, where would you want to play now...Whitam, Burnham, SM....apart from that I'm struggling..!!

 

The Ryman League is the place to play now if you are a decent player, but having spent my first season in the Essex Olympian I can honestly say that the football is more enjoyable (I wont say the sides are better) the grounds and playing surfaces are just as good (In most cases), the games kick off earlier so the social side is better (Back in the bar to watch the results come in) and there are also some decent players at the top sides.

 

In addition there is a dedicated website that is always updated and in general the league is run better. For example there are 3 reserve devisions which means most clubs are running at least two sides and get all the obvious benefits that brings (Keeping players happy, somewhere to develop the youngsters, a place to get fit etc etc) and thats forgetting the extra atmosphere it brings to the club..!!

 

I can't say I don't miss the FA Cup and Vase games, and it's always nice to play midweek under the lights, but lets be honest the Concord's and Hornchurchs away on during the week made up for the Sawbo's but they dont anymore..!!

 

I feel sorry for some the of the proper clubs, Burnham, SM, Bowers, Whitam, Enfield etc but I fear that the days of the ESL in it's current form are numbered, and in my opinion rightly so.........I just hope it works out for the 'better' clubs..!!

[Sorry]

_{TIC some very good points made and I have to say I agree. We were at Clapton on Saturday and it is a shame that place has got in the state it is as they are one of the oldest clubs going.}

 

_{What I will say though is you have to beat these sides and we struggled on Saturday albeit with a patched up team and it is those games that catch out the 'so-called' better sides. Trust me I know it has happened to us a number of times.}

 

_{The financial climate also has an affect on both people watching and playing, will people spend 6 or 7 pound to watch, plus petrol, food and the odd beverage and will players commit to training twice a week plus a game at the weekend with no expenses, when they have to pay for petrol etc. I think that is the reason you see the sides that can afford to pay expenses (Witham, SM, Enfield ) are at the top of the league as they are able to keep their squad together as money at any level talks.}

 

_{My question is when the Step 5 restructure happens and the ESL inherit other teams (with potentially better facilities & support) to make it a 20+ league what will happen to the sides that don't have the ground grading and will this influx of new teams increase attendances ??? Will a better run league encourage players to play in the ESL again as I'm sure the shop window as you put it will reopen again or will the same old faces re-appear at different clubs throughout the season ???}

[Basil-Don]

its not just the ESL that has to change but non-league in general,at step 5 i would start all saturday matches at 1-30/2-00 not only does it save on floodlights but as previously mentioned players will stay to see results,we need less midweek matches,does anyone actually enjoy mid week matches or do we all view them as simply a chore? the whole business plan for non league clubs is changing,sources of income like youth players parents spending in the bar is falling dramatically,function halls will also see a dramatic drop in takings,the FA and Leagues need to realise that they are there to serve the clubs and not vice versa.

[Jenko]

Firstly I would say the reason the same players and managers always pop up is because they are the only ones willing to put in the time, work and effort at this level. I have seen many managers who say how good they will be but it all ends up going pear shaped. I agree with what TIC says but I am old enough to remember playing against Hornchurch and Brentwood when they were p*ss poor with one man and his dog! LOL! And Waltham Abbey is one of my worst grounds of all time, I hate the place!

[Talk_Is_Cheap]

at step 5 i would start all saturday matches at 1-30/2-00

 

Richard, I totally agree with this - I think it would make a massive difference.

 

The fact that the games finishe earlier not only means you can watch the results come in, you also have that couple of hours before you go out in the evening and not rushing home from games etc

 

If you take Rayleigh Town as an example, most Saturdays you have the First, Second and Third team in the bar plus two of those sides opositions, so thats 5 teams (At least 55 people) all in the bar for an hour or so buying at least one drink each..!!

 

I also think that the every ESL team should be made to have a reserve side, I know these cost money to run, but I don't see why you cant charge these players subs each week as most players would have either been paying subs anyway or are under 18's.

 

This will then allow a better rotation of players and allow the youngsters to come through - It's hard to ignore a reserve team player who is actually at the club, playing mens football and scored 8 goals in his last 6 games.

 

I'm sure there are loads of players at in the EOL or local sides who could do a job and are willing to do a job in the ESL but no matter how well they do the common approach seems to be "But anyone can do that at that level" and therefore never given a chance. Or an u18 who is scoring for fun is "He hasn't played mens football yet" and dissmissed.

 

Plus, if you can't pay players in the first team at least it gives the reserve players an insentive that at least you don't have to pay to play..!!

[thecoldend]

Some really good points being made by people here..

 

Re the decline in customers drinking in the bar after and during the game etc you only have to look at the massive amount of pubs closing all over the Country. Many people just simply can't afford to drink out anymore. With a let's say average price of a pint £3ish it's something people now swerve to save money to spend elsewhere on petrol etc.

 

....and with petrol seemingly going up and up and up it's only going to get worse with travelling costs for players and clubs!!!

 

I def agree with the shift it kick off times back to save money on floodlights.. some clubs lose money just turning them on for midweek matches.

 

I am sorry to see Basildon United possibly leaving the ESL.... I hope it doesn't happen. Gardiners Close holds some good memories for us Enfield Town fans... we played our first competative game there in 2001 and beat Leyton in the League Cup Final at the end of the season on PKs.

[Basil-Don]

we still have a momento in our bar marking your first match,remember that League Cup Final and doyley being steward on the day!!

[andyetfc]

I remember the A4 game notice I purchased from Basildon and then auctioned it off to make money for the Enfield Town FC.

[Basil-Don]

we have a plaque in our bar regarding the match.