Showing Dissent by Word or Action

[Green_Fingers]

Much has been made of the fact that players hounded the Ref in the Camberley v Guildford match in so doing protesting against a Refereeing decision (or lack of). Surely the Ref must take some blame here for not dealing with it under the Laws of the Game which clearly state that a player who is guilty of dissent by protesting verbally or non-verbally against a Referees decision must be cautioned. By not doing so, did he not inadvertently invite further instances?

 

Would dishing out a few yellow cards the 1st time players "surrounded" him have prevented it becoming a regular feature of the match? Just a thought.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Green_Fingers

[NonLeague i]

" any referee is to deal with situations in the way he deems fit and appropriate". lets not bring the game into disrepute by asking refs to go on a booking spree. the game is best played with 11v11 lets not change that and try make a mockery of our beautiful game !

[Green_Fingers]

" any referee is to deal with situations in the way he deems fit and appropriate". lets not bring the game into disrepute by asking refs to go on a booking spree. the game is best played with 11v11 lets not change that and try make a mockery of our beautiful game !

 

Not asking Refs to go on a booking spree. Just asking that if appropriate - which seems the case based on an ex- Referee Assessors view of this game - Refs use all the tools in their armoury to prevent situations escalating. How many Refs on here would allow themselves to be surrounded / harangued by several players without using the dissent Laws?

Edited March 15, 2012 by Green_Fingers

[Gluck_ab]

I'm surprised that an active referee assessor would directly comment on general and specific elements of a particular match and the  referee's involvement in them - it would be both disrespectful to the referee and inappropriate to his [the assessor's] position.

[Green_Fingers]

I'm surprised that an active referee assessor would directly comment on general and specific elements of a particular match and the referee's involvement in them - it would be both disrespectful to the referee and inappropriate to his [the assessor's] position.

 

Fair point Gluck - forgot he retired last season

[NICE GUY]

At this level GF the referee's (not all) are weak and appear to be intimidated by the likes of Guildford and Camberley. Probably they recall what happened to the referee last season at Guildford and do not want to become another victim irrespective of the player being at Guildford or not, he played for Guildford and thats what referee's remember.

 

The solution for this is as I have said on numerous occasions. The referee secretary MUST appoint experienced, strong referee's at Guildford and Camberley games. Its not good appointing a young ''fast tracked'' referee to handle these situations its unfair but can be a good learning curb for them all the same. These players watch too much Premier and Spanish league football and ''copycat'' their actions by hounding the referee to either get opponents cautioned or sent off. Continued barracking will work eventually with weak referee's ....so can that be deemed as clever if they are allowed to get away with it ?

 

At the end of the day, lets look at the management of both clubs and their dug-out actions ...any similarity with the players actions ?

 

Sorry, its starts with good management to stop this farce, but having been a player I know the frustration that goes with the game but players need control and let the referee deal with the situation, they dont need 8-9 players in his ear telling what he's got to do.

 

Here we go, lets put the cats amongst the pigeons. Any forumrite being a player, management and spectator come out of the closet and give your HONEST opinion on any games you have witnessed regarding these 2 clubs, and I mean be honest, as I am finding this difficult to understand why I am one of a few who has witnessed these actions ?. Baffling, it is right to be honest with opinions ?

[Don't Blame Me]

It is far easier for a referee to deal with dissent when it is coming from 1 player. When it comes from 5 or 6 then what? Caution all of them? When I refereed Sunday League matches (high level, I know), there was a clear mandate from the Referee's Association and the League that foul language was not to be tolerated. Each referee was instructed to visit each team before the game to issue instructions. I discovered on Tuesday that such visits rarely occur in the CCL.

 

Considering that the vast majority of the Clubs in the CCL have youth teams associated with them, isn't anyone at all concerned that the behaviour on the pitch might be copied by youngsters in the crowd? Do we really want the next generation of players to come along believing that dissent towards officials is an acceptable part of the game?

 

The last game I referreed was a youth game and it was because of the amount of abuse from the youngsters and parents that I gave up.

 

This Saturday, Windsor play Cove and we will have our Under 8 squads in attendance. I wonder what their lasting impression will be?

[HKP]

" any referee is to deal with situations in the way he deems fit and appropriate". lets not bring the game into disrepute by asking refs to go on a booking spree. the game is best played with 11v11 lets not change that and try make a mockery of our beautiful game !

 

Not asking Refs to go on a booking spree. Just asking that if appropriate - which seems the case based on an ex- Referee Assessors view of this game - Refs use all the tools in their armoury to prevent situations escalating. How many Refs on here would allow themselves to be surrounded / harangued by several players without using the dissent Laws?

Happens most weeks in the Premier League! Stop it there and it will eventually roll down to all levels of the game.

[Don't Blame Me]

There we go again HKP. Let's blame everyone else instead of taking responsibility ourselves.

 

How successful was Brian Clough with Nottingham Forest? How often did anyone see Forest players harrassing officials? It didn't happen. Even at Reading when Sir Steve Coppell was in charge, it was abundantly clear that the players were instructed not to badger the referee. The reaction? One referee commented that officiating Reading games was always a pleasure as he knew that he would not be getting any grief throughout the game.

 

The sooner that Clubs make it policy that dissent towards officials will not tolerated then the sooner things will improve.

 

Why is it that dissent in Rugby Union rarely occurs regardless of the level of the game?

[jertzee]

Referees simply do not book for dissent anywhere near as often as they should, at any level.

I was at Wimbleodn v Bradford on tuesday night. Ref dished out about 10 yellows, but imho, should have dished out about another 6 or 7. I think one was for dissent, after the second penalty when 5 players surrounded the ref.

 

But the man that he sent off , after a second yellow for kicking the ball away (towards the disabled section who had the audacity to laugh after a trick he tried failed & went off for a throw in) turned around to the ref when he got his marching orders and game him a further tirade of verbal abuse, as did several other players, and they all got away with it.

If the ref booked each time for dissent Bradford would have been left with 6 players on the pitch.

Edited March 15, 2012 by jertzee

[Panthera]

At this level GF the referee's (not all) are weak and appear to be intimidated by the likes of Guildford and Camberley. Probably they recall what happened to the referee last season at Guildford and do not want to become another victim irrespective of the player being at Guildford or not, he played for Guildford and thats what referee's remember.

 

The solution for this is as I have said on numerous occasions. The referee secretary MUST appoint experienced, strong referee's at Guildford and Camberley games. Its not good appointing a young ''fast tracked'' referee to handle these situations its unfair but can be a good learning curb for them all the same. These players watch too much Premier and Spanish league football and ''copycat'' their actions by hounding the referee to either get opponents cautioned or sent off. Continued barracking will work eventually with weak referee's ....so can that be deemed as clever if they are allowed to get away with it ?

 

At the end of the day, lets look at the management of both clubs and their dug-out actions ...any similarity with the players actions ?

 

Sorry, its starts with good management to stop this farce, but having been a player I know the frustration that goes with the game but players need control and let the referee deal with the situation, they dont need 8-9 players in his ear telling what he's got to do.

 

Here we go, lets put the cats amongst the pigeons. Any forumrite being a player, management and spectator come out of the closet and give your HONEST opinion on any games you have witnessed regarding these 2 clubs, and I mean be honest, as I am finding this difficult to understand why I am one of a few who has witnessed these actions ?. Baffling, it is right to be honest with opinions ?

Totally agree with NG on the comment of the managers being responsible for their players actions and the way that they conduct themselves. However, though I haven't seen either of these teams play yet (will experience Guildford at the end of the month) what I can say is that every game is different, and don't believe everything that you read on these forums. I remember reading about South Kilburn being a bunch of foul mouthed, dangerous fouling animals, and we were prepared for a challenging time when they visited us. In reality, we greeted them with the charm and respect that we greet all teams, and they reciprocated with equal respect. A good, strong, challenging games ensued and everyone was happy. I think that respect counts for a lot in this game, respect for fellow players, officials, and the the faithful that turn up to play and watch games every week.

[HKP]

There we go again HKP. Let's blame everyone else instead of taking responsibility ourselves.

 

How successful was Brian Clough with Nottingham Forest? How often did anyone see Forest players harrassing officials? It didn't happen. Even at Reading when Sir Steve Coppell was in charge, it was abundantly clear that the players were instructed not to badger the referee. The reaction? One referee commented that officiating Reading games was always a pleasure as he knew that he would not be getting any grief throughout the game.

 

The sooner that Clubs make it policy that dissent towards officials will not tolerated then the sooner things will improve.

 

Why is it that dissent in Rugby Union rarely occurs regardless of the level of the game?

But thats where kids learn it from! I agree clubs should have a zero tolerance. I used to know a Junior coach that would sub any player who showed dissent.

[jertzee]

But thats where kids learn it from! I agree clubs should have a zero tolerance. I used to know a Junior coach that would sub any player who showed dissent.

 

I ran a kids team for 4 years and had the same zero tolerance. Automatically off.

Only ever had to warn one player....my own daughter when she ranted to no one in particular...

[Krooner]

He did caution someone for dissent GF and it didnt stop any of it. Yes he could have stamped down and that would have ruined the game and I can understand why he didnt. Were Guildford abusive towards him ? Not that I heard they were not.

 

If I were still assessing I may well have asked him the question about why he did not deal with it more. Esp the keeper who was spoken to about it but carried on.

 

As a paying spectator I am happy that he didnt.

 

Perhaps the clubs could agree that for one Sat next season the referees will caution immedaitely someone questions a decision and clubs agree to accept that they will end up with 7 players ? would be an interesting experiment

 

I always maintain it is something we all have to work on together.

[Smudge]

Have only watched Guildford 3 times this year,and Camberley once.Think all of the above is a load of tosh.No dissent was showed by any Player to the Referee,but a lot of so called by you, appealing for every decision was evident.Having watched Guernsey 5 times,the master of this tactic,is Ryan Zico Black,he could teach the rest a trick or 2 for sure.Ferguson and Wenger are also Professor's in the art of intimidation by their Comments to Officials.Lets be honest every game we watch if the Laws of the game,were applied to the Letter,none would finish.Congratulations to Guildford,they have been for the past 2 Seasons the best TEAM in the League,because they are a TRUE TEAM,from COMMITTEE MEMBERS, MANAGERS,PLAYERS,SUPPORTERS,TEA LADY.As NICE GUY does know Nice ,kind,thoughtful people, win nothing in Football.I WISH THEM EVERY SUCCESS WHEN THEY ARE PROMOTED.

[NonLeague i]

i think everyone on this forum needs to make sure there not clouding "dissent" with "appealing for a decision". When the ball goes out for a throw and both teams claim its theirs are we going to book them all for questioning the refs decision. absolutly ridiculous these comments. Dissent is swearing AT people or foul and abusive language AT people. a player misses a shot and swears at his own mistake and it seems like some of you would like him booked. please unwrap yourselves from the cotton wool !!!

[HKP]

Dissent is not swearing, thats foul, abuisive or offensive language. This is the Dictionary definition of Dissent. Appealing for a throw in is one thing, surrounding the referee telling him hes wrong another.

Edited March 15, 2012 by HKP

[NonLeague i]

i just dont think we should be doing the talking for the referees telling them how they were feeling or they must have felt intimidated. if they felt like that then they would lodge a complaint. just shouldnt get in this business of trying to do everyone elses job for them.

[HKP]

We should try and back the referres, they have a difficult job which is not made any easier by a basic lack of respect from far too many.

[Mewcenary]

Appealing for a decision can, of course, turn into dissent. Can anyone remember a game when a player hasn't appealed for a throw-in which is obvious to all is never going to be given their way? That on its own is not dissent.

 

It starts to creep into dissent territory when the referee has made his or her decision, but the appeals continue, complete with the aforementioned crowding.

 

That said, as a referee, I really dislike players trying to get their opponents booked (card waving etc). Not only is it incredibly unsporting, it can enflame situations. In this position, a referee could caution the player for Unsporting Behaviour! I've not had to do this to date, but I have had words with a player for trying that trick, and thankfully that has resolved it. I'd rather have that chat, and maybe a caution, then an opponent decide to sort it out with a stud in the back of the calf.

 

Please note that you don't need to swear in order to be booked for dissent. I think this is one of those myths, as I did have a captain protest last season to that effect ("But I didn't swear at you!"). Thankfully, the rest of his team put him straight.

 

Changing room chats: Generally not recommended any more. Firstly, the changing room is the domain of the teams. Secondly, it can put a referee in a corner. Imagine if a referee says, "If anyone swears at me, I'm sending them off". Five minutes in, a defender swears, quietly, "f**king hell, that was a goal kick". The other team immediately start shouting, "He swore at you! You've got to send him off!". Goodbye match control!

Edited March 15, 2012 by Mewcenary