Step 5 Restructuring

[Beano]

Of course, The FA would never deliberately force clubs down the Pyramid.

 

However, they do wish to get the 14 Step 5 Leagues down to 12 if possible, either by merging Leagues or natural wastage (the Kent and Essex Leagues are very small, so if they get much smaller, a merger might be suggested).

 

Ground grading will be a factor, just as it was when Isthmian Division 2 was disbanded. Sharing is more common in the South-East because of the demand for housing, yet it is also the South-East that has the highest concentration of Step 5 Leagues. It might prove to be a factor in the long run...

[Krooner]

Just speculating TRS.

[Charlie Farleigh]

Of course, The FA would never deliberately force clubs down the Pyramid.

 

However, they do wish to get the 14 Step 5 Leagues down to 12 if possible, either by merging Leagues or natural wastage (the Kent and Essex Leagues are very small, so if they get much smaller, a merger might be suggested).

 

Ground grading will be a factor, just as it was when Isthmian Division 2 was disbanded. Sharing is more common in the South-East because of the demand for housing, yet it is also the South-East that has the highest concentration of Step 5 Leagues. It might prove to be a factor in the long run...

I totally get what you are saying Beano but IMHO the problem is at the other end of the pyramid.When altering/starting all of this the FA should have gone Conf -one div Bsq- 2 divsTHEN four divisions at step three, eight at step 4.At least this way you could have two up from each division,after all the football league div one has four relegation spots so why not non league.I know this would mean a massive upheaval of leagues but if it had been done right the first time a lot of this could have been avoided.

[Jeff Hamnett TSF]

I say Charlie that looks like such a sensible way, logically then 16 divisions/leagues at step 5.

4 down and 2 up.

 

currently 14 at step 5, with the FA wanting 12?

 

I may have to get out my pencil and work this out.....

[Big J R]

It gets more interesting by the day !

[Beano]

Of course, The FA would never deliberately force clubs down the Pyramid.

 

However, they do wish to get the 14 Step 5 Leagues down to 12 if possible, either by merging Leagues or natural wastage (the Kent and Essex Leagues are very small, so if they get much smaller, a merger might be suggested).

 

Ground grading will be a factor, just as it was when Isthmian Division 2 was disbanded. Sharing is more common in the South-East because of the demand for housing, yet it is also the South-East that has the highest concentration of Step 5 Leagues. It might prove to be a factor in the long run...

I totally get what you are saying Beano but IMHO the problem is at the other end of the pyramid.When altering/starting all of this the FA should have gone Conf -one div Bsq- 2 divsTHEN four divisions at step three, eight at step 4.At least this way you could have two up from each division,after all the football league div one has four relegation spots so why not non league.I know this would mean a massive upheaval of leagues but if it had been done right the first time a lot of this could have been avoided.

 

You're not the first person to suggest it Charlie, and you won't be the last. It would help to iron out some of the geographical oddities, but whether the Leagues will agree to it is a different matter.

[E&E Rich]

Firstly, this thing about relegation from Step 4. Why does it make any differeence? No clubs ever come down to our League anyway because of reprieves

 

On a more serious point though, if it were a simple matter of merging two leagues into one in two different places then this would have happened a long time ago. It clearly isn't as simple. So seeing as we're all speculating, here is my suggestion for getting from 14 to 12. Without doubt though, this whole thing is pointless unless you get the facility of four down from each of the six Step Four Leagues with two eligible to go up from each Step Five League.

 

South of Thames (ish): Merge Kent, Sussex, Combined Counties, and Wessex into three leagues and call them Southern Home Counties West, Central and East (or something better) with a similar division below them all at Step 6.

 

North of Thames (ish): Merge Hellenic, Spartan, Essex Senior and Eastern Counties into three leagues and call them Northern Home Counties West, Central and East (or something better) with a similar division below them all at Step 6. Maybe here the FA could trim the westernmost and easternmost teams if they felt this range was too far.

 

As Whitelaw says, we never get a full complement of fourteen teams going up currently, and with the usual reformed club situations happening too, then in practice most Step Four Leagues would probably only lose three down in reality. A way to soften that blow still further might be to increase the number of teams from 22 to 24 at Step Four. This would also mean a few less forced relegations to Step Six too, but inevitably there will be some. Personally, I think ground gradings should be waived for a year while all currently accepted step 5 clubs with a minimum grade F, (so Farnham may have to do some work) are told that 2012/13 will see clubs in the bottom six of their divisions potentially relegated. At least that way positions would be decided on the field.

 

Then from 2013/14 playoffs are introduced.

 

In terms of numbers in our area (ignoring the usual promotion and relegation places which would happen as usual), Kent have 16, we have 22, Sussex has 20 and Wessex has 22, making 80 in total. Move two of them up to Step Four, (with maybe even a playoff between the four league runners-up to achieve those two spots) and then create three 24 team leagues at Step Five. That is 74 of the 80 teams already catered for (24x3 + 2) so in reality you would probably only go down to step six if you finished in the bottom four of your league as opposed to the bottom three at the end of 2012/13. Then that goes back to three for future seasons.

 

Yes, this may mean Epsom find themselves in the Southern Home Counties League East Division One (or whatever it is called!) but if our clubs are hoping for step four football one day, then these are the journeys we'll have to make, and any decision needs to be made for the benefit of as many of the clubs as possible, not just the one I support. If we are to lose two leagues then travelling inevitably must increase anyway and that may be the price we pay for a competitive promotion and relegation structure.

 

One thing I haven't covered is administration of the leagues, but presumably it could be made up from the current officials of the four leagues that wish to remain involved. This isn't really in my remit so I won't go any further on this.

 

Any views?*

 

 

*Please note this is a sensible discussion so Nice Guy, don't bother.

[Chris Clapham]

I think the FA have a plan in place already. The CCL will find out more on Sunday.

All step 5 league officers will be jockeying to retain their statuses for their leagues I am sure.

However, change is inevitable and clubs may have the opportunity to adopt or decline where they are placed should such changes be implemented.

The geographical issues here in the south east aren't as awkward as other parts of the country.

My gut feeling is that two pairs of leagues will merge; at least one pair will be local to us!

[Green_Fingers]

2 points E&E Ed.

 

1) As you already allude to I can't see the Step 4 Leagues agreeing to 4 relegation slots just to allow 2 up from Step 5 Leagues - although their could be a trade off if extra promotion slots were made available Step 4 - Step 3 (which has a knock on effect further up the pyramid).

 

2) I've read elsewhere that the FA cannot "merge" Leagues - they can however dictate at what Step the League play and therefore Clubs that would be "relegated" if the FA downgraded their League would have to apply for membership of a higher League

[Big J R]

Oooooh !!! THE SUSPENSE !

 

Roll on the week-end.

[bomaya]

I predict a lot of unhappiness...you heard it here first....lol!!!

Edited January 3, 2012 by bomaya

[Big J R]

I predict a lot of unhappiness...you heard it here first....lol!!!

 

Looks like you're starting to suffer from the NG complex, Bom !

Edited January 3, 2012 by Big J R

[Terrence Collina]

perhaps 'lol' should be added to the censored list

[E&E Rich]

I take your point GF but it's not as if we are suggesting that those leagues get smaller, just that they get better teams in. It is quite clear that some Step Five clubs would actually strengthen the step four leagues e.g. Lowestoft, Sudbury, Leiston, St Neots etc. and even more clubs might spend money if there was a greater chance of promotion from Step Five in the first place.

 

The example with St Neots is especially relevant because it meant last year that FA Vase Quarter Finalists Kings Lynn missed out on promotion. I'm sure the Southern League or whatever it is called these days would have loved to have two teams up of that standard at the expense of their weakest teams. The ultimate aim, even for those leagues afraid of change is that the best teams go forward and those that aren't, will slip back.

 

To use the Combined Counties as an example, all of our Champion clubs have coped at the higher level in recent years Bedfont Green, Merstham, North Greenford, Chipstead, and the runners up to those clubs were all fairly close in terms of standard and points except the year that Merstham won it. And so what that a slightly weaker club goes up occasionally? If they truly aren't good enough they will come back down and no one gets hurt. It certainly makes no difference to the League itself and must be far better than having teams folding.

 

As for merging leagues, fair enough, but surely a single league like Ryman or Southern can't stand in the way of the FA's grand plan (whatever it is), can they?

[TRS]

perhaps 'lol' should be added to the censored list

 

[Krooner]

I say kick out all clubs who dont have their own ground if they begin with E Hope you are well Mr L

[Green_Fingers]

I take your point GF but it's not as if we are suggesting that those leagues get smaller, just that they get better teams in. It is quite clear that some Step Five clubs would actually strengthen the step four leagues e.g. Lowestoft, Sudbury, Leiston, St Neots etc. and even more clubs might spend money if there was a greater chance of promotion from Step Five in the first place.

 

The example with St Neots is especially relevant because it meant last year that FA Vase Quarter Finalists Kings Lynn missed out on promotion. I'm sure the Southern League or whatever it is called these days would have loved to have two teams up of that standard at the expense of their weakest teams. The ultimate aim, even for those leagues afraid of change is that the best teams go forward and those that aren't, will slip back.

 

To use the Combined Counties as an example, all of our Champion clubs have coped at the higher level in recent years Bedfont Green, Merstham, North Greenford, Chipstead, and the runners up to those clubs were all fairly close in terms of standard and points except the year that Merstham won it. And so what that a slightly weaker club goes up occasionally? If they truly aren't good enough they will come back down and no one gets hurt. It certainly makes no difference to the League itself and must be far better than having teams folding.

 

As for merging leagues, fair enough, but surely a single league like Ryman or Southern can't stand in the way of the FA's grand plan (whatever it is), can they?

 

The Step 4 Leagues can make the same argument - they each "only" get 2 teams promoted to Step 3 (Champions + 1 via play-offs).I'm sure they would prefer at least 3. They would also probably argue that some of the 24 teams relegated under your proposal would still be stronger than 24 promoted from Step 5 (although I take your general point that most recent Champions have done OK at the higher level - let's hope this season isn't an exception )

 

Whatever happens they'll be some upsets - let's hope not too many fall our way

[NICE GUY]

perhaps 'lol' should be added to the censored list

 

Oh bless my admirers................ha ha, lol !!!

[NICE GUY]

I predict a lot of unhappiness...you heard it here first....lol!!!

 

Looks like you're starting to suffer from the NG complex, Bom !

 

More copyright ....lol........ and especially for you TC..........LOL !!!

[NICE GUY]

perhaps 'lol' should be added to the censored list

 

 

 

I love you all...............LOOL, LOL, LOL allegedly ........ha ha !!!