Opinons

[Krooner]

Groundsharing seems to work quite nicely in Italy and with some big clubs to boot. If a purpose built ground was built and shared by 2 clubs then what is so wrong with that? We played Epsom & Ewell at the weekend and they have been effectively homeless for 17 years which is a dreadful state of affairs. But I know talking to their Chairman on Saturday that they are doing what they can to move back. If a groundshare keeps a football club alive rather than disappear altogether then that has to be a good thing.

 

 

So are we saying that since selling off their land 17 years ago, they have all that money and haven't got their own new ground, so where's all the money gone, in groundsharing ? One would think now that the money they got for their ground will have been used to the extent that they cannot afford to get a new ground now,so they are now in limbo and forever be a groundsharer ?

 

If the money for their ground was invested well, then that maybe a different story......but 17 years !!!!.

 

Some good firends at Epsom so hopefully one day they will have their own ground back. Fingers crossed Badshot Lea will be getting their new ground sooner rather than later.

 

Groundsharing works really well in Italy and I think that it is a blueprint we could use here. The problem is fans are so against it. Spurs and Arsenal in the same stadium. Chelsea and Fulham, Liverpool and Everton. Makes sense. Great stadiums and half the costs. Could it work at our level. I think it could. Why not Surrey Heath Borough Council identifying a decent site, building a decent little stadium and Camberley and Frimley Green sharing it. Would I be against it. No I wouldnt. I can assure you though that plenty of people will be short sighted enough to be against it.

[Jeff Hamnett TSF]

AH! A new ground, used by two clubs within a council boundary freeing up two old grounds for development sounds ok.

 

 

which two clubs though? Would be a problem for Mole Valley with 4 or 5 senior clubs, , reigate and banstead possibly even more so.

[NICE GUY]

Groundsharing seems to work quite nicely in Italy and with some big clubs to boot. If a purpose built ground was built and shared by 2 clubs then what is so wrong with that? We played Epsom & Ewell at the weekend and they have been effectively homeless for 17 years which is a dreadful state of affairs. But I know talking to their Chairman on Saturday that they are doing what they can to move back. If a groundshare keeps a football club alive rather than disappear altogether then that has to be a good thing.

 

 

So are we saying that since selling off their land 17 years ago, they have all that money and haven't got their own new ground, so where's all the money gone, in groundsharing ? One would think now that the money they got for their ground will have been used to the extent that they cannot afford to get a new ground now,so they are now in limbo and forever be a groundsharer ?

 

If the money for their ground was invested well, then that maybe a different story......but 17 years !!!!.

 

Some good firends at Epsom so hopefully one day they will have their own ground back. Fingers crossed Badshot Lea will be getting their new ground sooner rather than later.

 

Groundsharing works really well in Italy and I think that it is a blueprint we could use here. The problem is fans are so against it. Spurs and Arsenal in the same stadium. Chelsea and Fulham, Liverpool and Everton. Makes sense. Great stadiums and half the costs. Could it work at our level. I think it could. Why not Surrey Heath Borough Council identifying a decent site, building a decent little stadium and Camberley and Frimley Green sharing it. Would I be against it. No I wouldnt. I can assure you though that plenty of people will be short sighted enough to be against it.

 

 

Can see the logic Kroons, but if I was playing for a club that groundshares, I wouldn't feel part of the club 'cos they are not really a club if thats makes sense. I am old fashioned, and the club I play for I would want to support by way of having a few drinks spending money over the bar, attend functions at my club, have good banter all for MY club, not to go into another clubs pocket. I would want the feel of ''this is my club'' and not turning up at the ground seeing another clubs name, it just wouldn't feel right...... and am pleased to say I have not experienced it......

[Green_Fingers]

Didn't Charlton groundshare for several seasons at Palace NG - thought you'd might have experienced that in some way ??

[Beano]

Groundsharing is going to become increasingly important at CCL Level because the ground grading demands floodlights at Step 6 and upwards at the same time as the National League System finally comes up with a consistent set of rules for promotion and relegation. The upshot of that is that, just to stay in CCL 1 (never mind get promotion) clubs like Staines Lammas have to groundshare.

 

The reason I'm picking on Lammas is because I know that their ground at Laleham is in a conservation area, which means that they can try again and again, but they will never be allowed floodlights or spectator facilities. That isn't their fault, so why should they be relegated for it?

 

The groundshare between Ashford Town (Middlesex) and Staines Lammas is good for both clubs. The income is very useful for Ashford (and Lammas certainly generate a bigger bar take on a Saturday than Suburban League games did) while Lammas have security that they can continue to play at their existing level and push on if they wish. Lammas have also helped with some of the summer jobs around the ground.

 

At the same time, they still have their own ground for their Reserve and Youth Teams, so it's not as if Lammas aren't generating their own bar income through those games, social events, etc and they were also kind enough to allow Ashford to play an Under-18 match there in pre-season.

 

Given the demand for housing in this part of the world, plus the increased grading requirements developing a ground is going to be increasingly difficult. It took Ashford years to get floodlights and spectator facilities and Lammas could throw good money after bad trying and failing to do the same thing, or they could come and play at the RPS.

 

Sharing doesn't mean you can't have a Reserve Team either - we do!

[duncs]

I'm afraid I have to agree with NG on this one.Kroons its a bit different with premiership clubs and clubs at our level I always think that somebody who has thier own ground is being denied senior frootball because somebody else is sharing a graded ground,Epsom have now groundshared for the best part of 20 years come on.Lets hope that Baggy Lea get thier ground sorted out for next season because they must have also spent enough to have built thier own stadium already,

[Beano]

I don't follow... should E&E have dropped out of football when they sold West Street? A club that had played in senior football for decades and played at Wembley? That doesn't make any sense! Sites were explored but fell through - it's not as if the club have used the money from the sale of the ground to pay players so they can win lots of trophies.

 

Similarly, where clubs have a ground but cannot develop it, why shouldn't they be allowed to maintain their status by sharing?

[duncs]

I don't follow... should E&E have dropped out of football when they sold West Street? A club that had played in senior football for decades and played at Wembley? That doesn't make any sense! Sites were explored but fell through - it's not as if the club have used the money from the sale of the ground to pay players so they can win lots of trophies.

 

Similarly, where clubs have a ground but cannot develop it, why shouldn't they be allowed to maintain their status by sharing?

thats just making a case for e/e to continue sharing but when does it stop,knowone denies Epsom has a long history but there are many teams who have dropped down or out of leagues with equally as good hitories because they were swallowed up by progression

[Terrence Collina]

Erith and Belvedere and Welling Utd is an interesting case point. Erith groundshared at Welling and then ended up in agreement with Welling to become a permanent ground share but Erith built their own stand and club house on the opposite flank to Wellings main stand. There is now a ground that has two sets of seats on both sides and looks a neat ground with both clubs having the opportunity to generate funds with their own clubhouses

[Chris Clapham]

Erith and Belvedere and Welling Utd is an interesting case point. Erith groundshared at Welling and then ended up in agreement with Welling to become a permanent ground share but Erith built their own stand and club house on the opposite flank to Wellings main stand. There is now a ground that has two sets of seats on both sides and looks a neat ground with both clubs having the opportunity to generate funds with their own clubhouses

 

I have been there to see both teams and that works well and, as you said, this is a real groundshare as opposed to hiring a ground.

I wonder if any CCL clubs have considered doing similar?

[Beano]

The point being (and one that Duncs didn't answer in his last post, as he latched on to the Epsom & Ewell issue) is that, in this part of the world, the Green Belt is a major factor.

 

I am currently working hard on a project that will eventually see new changing rooms at Ashford, but because the site is Green Belt, it's taken nearly 18 months to get to a point where we can submit an application. All the while, they have said "you can't replace your changing rooms without special reason - it's overdevelopment of the Green Belt".

 

What that means is that, while the Council are more than happy for Lammas to play at the RPS, there's no chance of them being allowed to build their own clubhouse there. But neither can Lammas develop their own ground, so they HAVE to share in order to grow the club on the pitch.

 

As for E&E - they got a shedload of money for West Street. If they've looked after it, they should be able to groundshare for the foreseeable and (hopefully) build something if they ever find a suitable site. I think I'm right in saying their old floodlights are on the back pitch at Banstead, so it's not like they didn't contribute to the development of Merland Rise.

[NICE GUY]

The point being (and one that Duncs didn't answer in his last post, as he latched on to the Epsom & Ewell issue) is that, in this part of the world, the Green Belt is a major factor.

 

I am currently working hard on a project that will eventually see new changing rooms at Ashford, but because the site is Green Belt, it's taken nearly 18 months to get to a point where we can submit an application. All the while, they have said "you can't replace your changing rooms without special reason - it's overdevelopment of the Green Belt".

 

What that means is that, while the Council are more than happy for Lammas to play at the RPS, there's no chance of them being allowed to build their own clubhouse there. But neither can Lammas develop their own ground, so they HAVE to share in order to grow the club on the pitch.

 

As for E&E - they got a shedload of money for West Street. If they've looked after it, they should be able to groundshare for the foreseeable and (hopefully) build something if they ever find a suitable site. I think I'm right in saying their old floodlights are on the back pitch at Banstead, so it's not like they didn't contribute to the development of Merland Rise.

 

 

Beano, I ask the question, after nearly 20 years are you saying that E&E couldn't / cannot get a ground of their own ? The money they have spent from the revenue obtained from West Street is gradually being used up to the effect that they probably do not have sufficient funding to build a ground now anyway ! After nearly 20 years have they tried to seek funding ? Shame they have given Banstead their lights, they could have saved them for their new ground that would have made a good saving !

 

I am not nieve and do understand the need to groundshare if necessary and having said the above, and apprecaite how difficult it is to buy land to build a football ground/club, but the likes of Knaphill and South Park and Eversley (I think) have done it !

 

The the forseeable future, I am of the opinion that E&E will continue to groundshare as long as they are allowed to, rather than continue to obtain a site for an E&E club, its probably the easy option.

 

Bommie, how long is their sharing agreement with Merstham ?

Erith and Belvedere and Welling Utd is an interesting case point. Erith groundshared at Welling and then ended up in agreement with Welling to become a permanent ground share but Erith built their own stand and club house on the opposite flank to Wellings main stand. There is now a ground that has two sets of seats on both sides and looks a neat ground with both clubs having the opportunity to generate funds with their own clubhouses

 

Have both clubs got their own turnstiles?

[Beano]

NG, I don't know enough about Epsom & Ewell FC or their local authority to make that sort of statement. My point was that if the money from the sale of the old site was properly invested, it ought to be producing a return whereby the club can pay its rent whilst retaining some sort of capital that can be used towards a new ground.

 

What I do know is that you can't apply for grant funding until you have a site and planning permission, so that is probably an option open to the club in the future.

[Smudge]

The point being (and one that Duncs didn't answer in his last post, as he latched on to the Epsom & Ewell issue) is that, in this part of the world, the Green Belt is a major factor.

 

I am currently working hard on a project that will eventually see new changing rooms at Ashford, but because the site is Green Belt, it's taken nearly 18 months to get to a point where we can submit an application. All the while, they have said "you can't replace your changing rooms without special reason - it's overdevelopment of the Green Belt".

 

What that means is that, while the Council are more than happy for Lammas to play at the RPS, there's no chance of them being allowed to build their own clubhouse there. But neither can Lammas develop their own ground, so they HAVE to share in order to grow the club on the pitch.

 

As for E&E - they got a shedload of money for West Street. If they've looked after it, they should be able to groundshare for the foreseeable and (hopefully) build something if they ever find a suitable site. I think I'm right in saying their old floodlights are on the back pitch at Banstead, so it's not like they didn't contribute to the development of Merland Rise.

 

 

Beano, I ask the question, after nearly 20 years are you saying that E&E couldn't / cannot get a ground of their own ? The money they have spent from the revenue obtained from West Street is gradually being used up to the effect that they probably do not have sufficient funding to build a ground now anyway ! After nearly 20 years have they tried to seek funding ? Shame they have given Banstead their lights, they could have saved them for their new ground that would have made a good saving !

 

I am not nieve and do understand the need to groundshare if necessary and having said the above, and apprecaite how difficult it is to buy land to build a football ground/club, but the likes of Knaphill and South Park and Eversley (I think) have done it !

 

The the forseeable future, I am of the opinion that E&E will continue to groundshare as long as they are allowed to, rather than continue to obtain a site for an E&E club, its probably the easy option.

 

Bommie, how long is their sharing agreement with Merstham ?

Erith and Belvedere and Welling Utd is an interesting case point. Erith groundshared at Welling and then ended up in agreement with Welling to become a permanent ground share but Erith built their own stand and club house on the opposite flank to Wellings main stand. There is now a ground that has two sets of seats on both sides and looks a neat ground with both clubs having the opportunity to generate funds with their own clubhouses

 

Have both clubs got their own turnstiles?

 

For a man who professes to know a lot about Non League,and gets about a lot,I am amazed you asked that question.They do have their own turnstiles with Name above them,their own bar as well.The catering is done by outside caterers,but the great thing is everything has dual use, whoever is at home.You should get out more NICE GUY,RATHER THAN BEING A COMPUTER TROLL.You do nothing but knock Clubs and Players,GROUNDS,PITCHES,NOW YOUR LATEST DEFENCES.So by your reckoning Norwich,Swansea,Wigan,Bolton,A.F.C.Totton,cannot defend?

[bomaya]

The trouble is as has been said on multiple threads before, different councils treat football very differently. Epsom & Ewell council are not interested in having a football stadium in their borough. Other councils seem a lot happier to help.

 

As for the length of the deal with Merstham, it's rolling on a yearly basis I think. Merstham are certainly pleased to have the money and I think E&E like it there apart from the travelling so I expect it to continue.

[NICE GUY]

The point being (and one that Duncs didn't answer in his last post, as he latched on to the Epsom & Ewell issue) is that, in this part of the world, the Green Belt is a major factor.

 

I am currently working hard on a project that will eventually see new changing rooms at Ashford, but because the site is Green Belt, it's taken nearly 18 months to get to a point where we can submit an application. All the while, they have said "you can't replace your changing rooms without special reason - it's overdevelopment of the Green Belt".

 

What that means is that, while the Council are more than happy for Lammas to play at the RPS, there's no chance of them being allowed to build their own clubhouse there. But neither can Lammas develop their own ground, so they HAVE to share in order to grow the club on the pitch.

 

As for E&E - they got a shedload of money for West Street. If they've looked after it, they should be able to groundshare for the foreseeable and (hopefully) build something if they ever find a suitable site. I think I'm right in saying their old floodlights are on the back pitch at Banstead, so it's not like they didn't contribute to the development of Merland Rise.

 

 

Beano, I ask the question, after nearly 20 years are you saying that E&E couldn't / cannot get a ground of their own ? The money they have spent from the revenue obtained from West Street is gradually being used up to the effect that they probably do not have sufficient funding to build a ground now anyway ! After nearly 20 years have they tried to seek funding ? Shame they have given Banstead their lights, they could have saved them for their new ground that would have made a good saving !

 

I am not nieve and do understand the need to groundshare if necessary and having said the above, and apprecaite how difficult it is to buy land to build a football ground/club, but the likes of Knaphill and South Park and Eversley (I think) have done it !

 

The the forseeable future, I am of the opinion that E&E will continue to groundshare as long as they are allowed to, rather than continue to obtain a site for an E&E club, its probably the easy option.

 

Bommie, how long is their sharing agreement with Merstham ?

 

Erith and Belvedere and Welling Utd is an interesting case point. Erith groundshared at Welling and then ended up in agreement with Welling to become a permanent ground share but Erith built their own stand and club house on the opposite flank to Wellings main stand. There is now a ground that has two sets of seats on both sides and looks a neat ground with both clubs having the opportunity to generate funds with their own clubhouses

 

Have both clubs got their own turnstiles?

 

For a man who professes to know a lot about Non League,and gets about a lot,I am amazed you asked that question.They do have their own turnstiles with Name above them,their own bar as well.The catering is done by outside caterers,but the great thing is everything has dual use, whoever is at home.You should get out more NICE GUY,RATHER THAN BEING A COMPUTER TROLL.You do nothing but knock Clubs and Players,GROUNDS,PITCHES,NOW YOUR LATEST DEFENCES.So by your reckoning Norwich,Swansea,Wigan,Bolton,A.F.C.Totton,cannot defend?

 

I don't profess, people assume don't they Smudgeyboy !

 

Knock players ?.......example please

 

Ground and pitches, one must assume you're objecting to what I have said about Worcester Park..........I ask you, am I wrong in my comments ?

 

Enough said, yeah you got me going as usual good ol' Smudgeyboy..........lol !!!

 

Smudgeyboy, lesson for you. Ask any decent coach, manager if your team is leaking in goals, immediate attention is why and concentrate first on the defence and 'keeper. Are clubs leaking from set pieces, analyse where and why this is happening and deal with the matter. Is the team defending as a team ? Are the holding midfielders doing their job/s ? I could go on but you obviously know everything so I need say no more.

 

You do like shooting yourself in the foot, well its got to be the other foot now, the original foot must have so many holes in it !!!

 

Smudgeyboy, I have not been to Erith/Welling of late, but have played against them both many years ago, something you haven't....well you may have been a ball boy for them.! Have you been to Whitley Bay....No! You should get out more mate its nice there.....lol !

 

You do come out with some c*ap.

 

I do not knock clubs, I merely ask questions that perhaps other posters dare not ask, whats wrong with that ?,...you say enough thats for sure.....poor old Guernsey eh....lol !

 

Problem is Smudge you can't cope with honesty.

 

Lastly, I need your help, can you tell me what this topic is called .................!!!

[Don't Blame Me]

I wonder how long it will be before artificial pitches become the norm? Good enough for UEFA Champions League Finals, international matches and the like but frowned upon by the FA. Opens up the facilities for more to use and thus generate much needed revenue. No problem with games being called off because of being frozen, waterlogged etc.

[Non League Nigel]

Not true ! They can freeze as well!

[Big J R]

Who can afford artificial pitches in Non League ?

 

Schools used to get them with grants, but that has now dried up !

[bomaya]

I thought I heard one CCL club were going to have them in a season or two,