Hornchurch expectations part 2

[Urchins]

I guess my cynicism comes from comments like the one below posted by Mr Fence on the Romford forum this summer,

 

'Hornchurch stadium belongs to the residents of Havering and we have just as much right to play there as AFCH,and Phil's right when he asks why we should subsidise another football club through our council tax'

 

It the issue of being forced to groundshare that leaves a bad taste for me

 

Not quite sure how AFCH is being subsidised. As far as I know, the club (and probably Havering Athletics Club) does a lot of work around the ground in order to maintain it. Sounds like both clubs are taking some of the burden of maintaining the Stadium away from the Council, meaning that this should go some way to lightening the tax burden on Havering residents. Can someone enlighten me ?

 

Of course anyone can use the stadium by making a booking with the council, however, as AFCH and the athletics club have a long term lease agreement with the council they will have priority over dates. On that basis it looks to me like AFCH and Havering Athletics Club DO have more right to use the Stadium. Clubs have in the past made pitch bookings on an ad-hoc basis. Unfortunately this will not help Romford since the Ryman League require something more reliable.

[Hasbeen]

There would be lots of points to be considered before any groundshare. For one I'm not sure RFC would be able to contribute much to any ground upkeep. They have raised minimal funds through their Boro bonanza project (just over £1000 per annum at current rates), their RM connected website is all but extinct and their crowds hardly generate extensive revenues. Also I do know that residents adjacent to the ground would have a point of view about additional games being played

[missunderstood]

A cost analysis on the stadium and other council owned non profit making facilities was carried out just before the Dolphin Complex was shut, and the stadium was costing the council tax payers over £70,000 per year after rent was paid, the figures for the high energy using Dolphin and ice skating rink was far higher though. Dont know what the figures are now, but I was told by a council officer that even with the massive increase in rent it will not cover the cost of running the stadium.

[Hasbeen]

One question I do have is as Mr Panel believes the stadium should be for the use of other Havering resident tax payers why should it be RFC who share, surely other teams/clubs have as much right as RFC on his thinking?

[Urchins]

A cost analysis on the stadium and other council owned non profit making facilities was carried out just before the Dolphin Complex was shut, and the stadium was costing the council tax payers over £70,000 per year after rent was paid, the figures for the high energy using Dolphin and ice skating rink was far higher though. Dont know what the figures are now, but I was told by a council officer that even with the massive increase in rent it will not cover the cost of running the stadium.

 

Source ?

[missunderstood]

There would be lots of points to be considered before any groundshare. For one I'm not sure RFC would be able to contribute much to any ground upkeep. They have raised minimal funds through their Boro bonanza project (just over £1000 per annum at current rates), their RM connected website is all but extinct and their crowds hardly generate extensive revenues. Also I do know that residents adjacent to the ground would have a point of view about additional games being played

There would be lots of points to be considered before any groundshare. For one I'm not sure RFC would be able to contribute much to any ground upkeep. They have raised minimal funds through their Boro bonanza project (just over £1000 per annum at current rates), their RM connected website is all but extinct and their crowds hardly generate extensive revenues. Also I do know that residents adjacent to the ground would have a point of view about additional games being played

If RFC ever did return to Bridge Avenue we would have to pay an equal share of the rent, or even worse for us and AFCH, the same as Hornchurch will pay when the increases come into effect. If the club could afford either sum is open to debate and IMO will probably never happen unless all other options are exhausted, and the club are certain they could afford to play there.

 

Romford would have no more right to use the stadium than any other club, apart from the sitting tenant's. and the source of any information is old contacts, and various departments at the town hall who since the introduction of the freedom of information act respond brilliantly.

[Eastside Urchin]

How can a stadium cost the taxpayers £70'000 per annum

They do not do any repairs (apart from the odd bust floodlight) and they do nothing to maintain the stadium to my knowledge.

There is a possibility that until recently they footed part of the bill for floodlights but i believe this has been changed with us footing more than the athletics club even though they probably use it 5 times more than us in a year.

I fail to see where a figure of £70'000 per annum has suddenly cropped up,are you sure it wasn't £7 £17,£170 or £1'700???

[Urchins]

Romford would have no more right to use the stadium than any other club, apart from the sitting tenant's. and the source of any information is old contacts, and various departments at the town hall who since the introduction of the freedom of information act respond brilliantly.

 

So nothing in writing then.

 

Thanks for finally conceding that AFCH have more right to use the Stadium than Romford.

[Urchins]

How can a stadium cost the taxpayers £70'000 per annum

They do not do any repairs (apart from the odd bust floodlight) and they do nothing to maintain the stadium to my knowledge.

There is a possibility that until recently they footed part of the bill for floodlights but i believe this has been changed with us footing more than the athletics club even though they probably use it 5 times more than us in a year.

I fail to see where a figure of £70'000 per annum has suddenly cropped up,are you sure it wasn't £7 £17,£170 or £1'700???

 

The Dolphin complex was shut down about 15 years ago. At that time the ground was looked after by a council groundsman. A lot has changed since then. AFCH do a lot more to maintain the ground than they did then.

We had to do more since the council were clearly losing interest - I remember Ted Harris using a pot of paint and a paintbrush to mark out the pitch about an hour before kick-off one night because the council didnt' get round to it. Without that the game would certainly have been called off and we would have received a heavy fine which we would've had to pass onto the council.

 

Even so, £70,000 is, what, £1 per year per household ??

 

 

Anyway, 1000 posts - only taken me about 10 years.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Urchins

[blackballed]

All I have to say well done Rob on your 1000 posts,

The rest is the usaual Rumford drivel ................

[Hasbeen]

TBH i think we all know this is a non-starter as the majority of RFC supporters do not hold the the same view on groundsharing as Mr Fence. I think his motives are more vindictive than others

[missunderstood]

Was it really 15 years ago the Dolphin shut down? The figure of £70,000 is correct to within a few grand, and if I remember correctly the deficit come partly from the education budget, and the bulk from L&R. Wouldn't have a clue how the figure was arrived at, but I would assume it was a combination of labour, admin, water and energy, security and repairs.At the time I was on a local government scrutiny team and it was just after we had left Bridge Avenue, and thats probably why I remember it.The minority labour administration considered it a price worth paying to promote sporting excellence in the borough, but costs had to be controlled vigorously. Accounting methods at the town hall have always puzzled me though.

 

If anyone is interested in finding the current running costs they can easily contact the LBH who would normally respond within ten working days.

 

Considering some of the comments about Romford are almost always less than complimentary I find it a bit rich that Hasbeen describes me as vindictive, not the best way to attract people who just want to watch an occasional game of football at Hornchurch IMO.

[Hasbeen]

Perhaps I believe your vindictiveness comes from comments such as these posted on your RFC forum

 

 

Perhaps the Ryman league believe (like me) that there's to many clubs that are also struggling financially, and by restricting ground-share arrangements a natural culling will take place

In my opinion its better to have one ''super club'' per town or borough than two or three clubs wh's realistic ambition is survival

Or

Like Paul, I wish them (Grays) well for the future but I wouldn't be at all sorry if AFCH find themselves in a similar situation soon

I think AFCH and Grays are as bad as each other

Both relied on the money man and when he is not there no more they want tea and sympathy

 

 

Perhaps it's just me

[missunderstood]

Perhaps I believe your vindictiveness comes from comments such as these posted on your RFC forum

 

 

Perhaps the Ryman league believe (like me) that there's to many clubs that are also struggling financially, and by restricting ground-share arrangements a natural culling will take place

In my opinion its better to have one ''super club'' per town or borough than two or three clubs wh's realistic ambition is survival

 

Or

Like Paul, I wish them (Grays) well for the future but I wouldn't be at all sorry if AFCH find themselves in a similar situation soon

 

I think AFCH and Grays are as bad as each other

Both relied on the money man and when he is not there no more they want tea and sympathy

 

 

Perhaps it's just me

I think I wrote the first comment, and still believe in the concept of super-clubs, the other posts are definitely not mine.

[Hasbeen]

Comment two attributed 21st May 2010.

 

So this 'super club' would be to the detriment of others?

[obis]

Why not arrange a contest over two legs, winner take all so we can all move on. Throw Aveley into it so we can have their ground.

Bring it on

[Hasbeen]

Why not arrange a contest over two legs, winner take all so we can all move on. Throw Aveley into it so we can have their ground.

Bring it on

 

Is Bridge Ave home advantage for both teams?

[missunderstood]

Comment two attributed 21st May 2010.

 

So this 'super club' would be to the detriment of others?

IMO not at all Hasbeen, as the super club could only be a merger between willing parties it would always contain the DNA of all the original clubs, and the merged club would be stronger and in a better position to attract the next generation of non league supporters, something most non league clubs are failing miserably at.

[obis]

How would Afch benefit financially from a merger?

[urchinman1961]

I knew this thread would get a stirring in the loins