SHOULD WE ALL SUPPORT COMRADE RHODES ?

[Loose]

Of course it's fair Alan, these days there are no forever careers, many people have accepted since the early nineties the likelihood of having more than one. Where we agree is that some public sector workers chose that job satisfaction and counted on being able to trust that they would get a final salary pension at a set pensionable age (however not every pension is based on a final salary calculation since the govt. made regulatory changes and told workers that they could choose their pension provider). How do you propose that the govt. find the funds to fulfil their original promises?

Edited November 25, 2011 by Loose

[missunderstood]

Of course it's fair Alan, these days there are no forever careers, many people have accepted since the early nineties the likelihood of having more than one. Where we agree is that some public sector workers chose that job satisfaction and counted on being able to trust that they would get a final salary pension at a set pensionable age (however not every pension is based on a final salary calculation since the govt. made regulatory changes and told workers that they could choose their pension provider). How do you propose that the govt. find the funds to fulfil their original promises?

Governments could find the funds to fulfill original promises by not taking pension holidays (successive governments relinquished their responsibility to the Royal Mail Pension Fund for thirteen successive years) and thats why its in its current mess.

 

They could make appropriate tax demands on the super rich, including fat cat bankers, footballers and entertainers, and make an honest attempt to stop tax avoidance scams.

 

They could stop spending billions of pounds on illegal wars and boys toys weapons of mass destruction.

 

They should reinstate the right of companies to make retirement compulsory at sixty five, so that the baby boom generation can no longer be geriatric job blockers to the youngsters that we produced.

 

They could also promise never again to make expensive mistakes like the Millennium Dome and the Olympics which do little IMO other than give politicians and useless celebrities great photo opportunities, they could also stop airport expansion as its unlikely many of us will be able to afford foreign travel in the future.

 

As long as we have Eton educated rich kids who believe its their divine right to rule over us, and see working class families as cannon fodder, and commodities who was put on this earth with the sole purpose of making them even richer, equality and fairness will never happen.

Edited November 25, 2011 by missunderstood

[Loose]

 

They could stop spending billions of pounds on illegal wars and boys toys weapons of mass destruction.

 

They should reinstate the right of companies to make retirement compulsory at sixty five, so that the baby boom generation can no longer be geriatric job blockers to the youngsters that we produced.

 

They could also promise never again make mistakes like the Millennium Dome and the Olympics which do little IMO other than give politicians and useless celebrities great photo opportunities, they could also stop airport expansion as its unlikely many of us will be able to afford foreign travelling the future.

 

Can only agree thoroughly with these, unfortunately super taxing the super rich only would only have an eventual adverse effect on income to the UK.

 

Instead though I agree with your principles and would propose a windfall tax on former nationalised industries and utilities, transport and telecom companies.

 

In addition a fine of up to 50% on these corporations post tax profits who have failed to reinvest in the infrastructure of their services and also those which fail to perform to the customer contracts i.e BT promising whatever mb broadband speed and only supply x%, Train companies not hitting passenger travel times etc etc.

 

Don't tax the super rich but for example the Aston Villa player who drove his car drunk, left the scene of an accident whilst driving his £80,000 Range Rover all whilst only having a provisional driving license, instead of only fining him £4,500 his car should be confiscated much as drug dealers illegal profits are confiscated and goods sold to add to Govt. coffers, well you get the idea, punishment proportionate to means.

 

With all that the Govt should then lower the basic rate of tax to 10% and leave everything else the f*ck alone. Stop fiddling with re-organisations of the NHS (what does an MP know about providing health services?), stop playing with the Army and the Police Force and using them as political footballs.

[missunderstood]

 

They could stop spending billions of pounds on illegal wars and boys toys weapons of mass destruction.

 

They should reinstate the right of companies to make retirement compulsory at sixty five, so that the baby boom generation can no longer be geriatric job blockers to the youngsters that we produced.

 

They could also promise never again make mistakes like the Millennium Dome and the Olympics which do little IMO other than give politicians and useless celebrities great photo opportunities, they could also stop airport expansion as its unlikely many of us will be able to afford foreign travelling the future.

 

Can only agree thoroughly with these, unfortunately super taxing the super rich only would only have an eventual adverse effect on income to the UK.

 

Instead though I agree with your principles and would propose a windfall tax on former nationalised industries and utilities, transport and telecom companies.

 

In addition a fine of up to 50% on these corporations post tax profits who have failed to reinvest in the infrastructure of their services and also those which fail to perform to the customer contracts i.e BT promising whatever mb broadband speed and only supply x%, Train companies not hitting passenger travel times etc etc.

 

Don't tax the super rich but for example the Aston Villa player who drove his car drunk, left the scene of an accident whilst driving his £80,000 Range Rover all whilst only having a provisional driving license, instead of only fining him £4,500 his car should be confiscated much as drug dealers illegal profits are confiscated and goods sold to add to Govt. coffers, well you get the idea, punishment proportionate to means.

 

With all that the Govt should then lower the basic rate of tax to 10% and leave everything else the f*ck alone. Stop fiddling with re-organisations of the NHS (what does an MP know about providing health services?), stop playing with the Army and the Police Force and using them as political footballs.

I'm probably in a minority of one, as I don't agree with lowering the tax threshold to 10% as income tax provides all the good things that society needs, unfortunately I also accept politicians have a talent for wasteful spending. I'm also quite proud that even though I'm a pensioner I still pay income tax and continue making a contribution to society, thanks mainly to being the beneficiary of a final salary pension.

 

I always believed its each generations responsibility to make the world a better place for the people we leave behind. I fear though that my generation has made a complete pigs ear of that responsibility and collectively we should hang our heads in shame. I only hope our offspring make a better job of things than my generation has.

Edited November 25, 2011 by missunderstood

[Loose]

I think that if you lower the tax rate to 10% people have to either spend it, save it or invest either in pensions or other things like housing. Plus 2.5 million unemployed it makes the difference between dole money and going into employment. Foreign companies invest more with the interest rate still relatively low and with low rates of employment tax in bringing companies to the UK, either bringing some of their own employees who will pay that tax here in the UK and adding jobs for UK nationals. These companies don't gain by paying less corporation tax but the difference in employer PAYE contributions makes it more attractive and competitive. We brain drain back some of our best people too. All of the giveaway in tax is spent here and more. Hopefully kickstarts the house building industry and fighting our way out of recession.

[missunderstood]

I think that if you lower the tax rate to 10% people have to either spend it, save it or invest either in pensions or other things like housing. Plus 2.5 million unemployed it makes the difference between dole money and going into employment. Foreign companies invest more with the interest rate still relatively low and with low rates of employment tax in bringing companies to the UK, either bringing some of their own employees who will pay that tax here in the UK and adding jobs for UK nationals. These companies don't gain by paying less corporation tax but the difference in employer PAYE contributions makes it more attractive and competitive. We brain drain back some of our best people too. All of the giveaway in tax is spent here and more. Hopefully kickstarts the house building industry and fighting our way out of recession.

If you keep the tax thresh-hold at 20% or above, governments will always find ways to spend it, if only to bribe the electorate into voting for them at the following election. If spent wisely on things that benefit the majority it creates employment and self respect, and increases revenue from taxation from people that would otherwise be unemployed and claiming benefits. Not sure if the brain drain argument stands up to much scrutiny as the only people that use it tend to be the ones that have the most to gain because because people are actually naive enough to believe it. Kick-starting the house building industry can only be achieved by helping the hundreds of thousands of families who are stuck in negative equity, and are reducing confidence in the housing market.

[Rhodes]

Loosely - The Unions have been the ruin of this once proud Nation so you being a member since the tender age of seventeen says it all about you, I hope you're proud of yourself

Loosely - You think you know it all don't you, what will striking achieve at the end of the day and inconveniencing millions of people, 99.99% who want to work.

[missunderstood]

Loosely - The Unions have been the ruin of this once proud Nation so you being a member since the tender age of seventeen says it all about you, I hope you're proud of yourself

Loosely - You think you know it all don't you, what will striking achieve at the end of the day and inconveniencing millions of people, 99.99% who want to work.

Like Loose I am a lifelong union member and I fail to see how the unions have been the ruin of this once proud nation. Perhaps you can enlighten us as to why you feel this way.

 

IMO this is a fight the unions have to win, and they can only achieve victory by showing steadfast solidarity. I feel though that the odds are firmly stacked against them, and all the public service workers will have to look forward to is an old age spent in relative poverty. The career average pensions the government are proposing are inferior, and if we have a few years of high inflation they could prove to be worthless. This will also have a knock-on effect on private sector workers who are already witnessing the demise of final salary pensions.

 

The only good thing that could come out of this dispute is that all the publicity regarding pensions might make people actually think about how pensions work. It never used to fail to amaze me how people can spend thousands of pounds annually on something they don't even make am effort to understand.

[Eastside Urchin]

Perhaps if the leaders of the unions weren't taking home "fatcat" salaries they may be taken more seriously

All these strikes will do is hammer more misery into an already ailing economy,we are in the middle of a worldwide recession but still people think that this government should hand over money left right and centre.It's also convenient that these strikes always happen when the Tories are in power yet under a labour government when they actually ran the country into virtual ruin nothing was said

[missunderstood]

Perhaps if the leaders of the unions weren't taking home "fatcat" salaries they may be taken more seriously

All these strikes will do is hammer more misery into an already ailing economy,we are in the middle of a worldwide recession but still people think that this government should hand over money left right and centre.It's also convenient that these strikes always happen when the Tories are in power yet under a labour government when they actually ran the country into virtual ruin nothing was said

Apart from Gordon Taylor at the PFA union leaders earn far less than the fat cats that run similar size organizations.

 

Although the strike will undoubtedly cause a great deal of misery thats not the fault of the unions, because their overriding responsibility is to look after the best interests of its members, its the British electorate that voted for this government that must take their share of the blame, as historically the Conservatives have always been anti union and anti working class, so the situation we now find ourselves in is hardly unexpected.

 

I would imagine that if self employed people like yourself had to pay the same national insurance contributions as the rest of us, lost all your tax concessions and was then told you would not be allowed to charge any extra to maintain your own standard of living you would feel pretty upset as well, and would also be looking to take collective action that was detrimental to the public at large.

[Loose]

Loosely - The Unions have been the ruin of this once proud Nation so you being a member since the tender age of seventeen says it all about you, I hope you're proud of yourself

Loosely - You think you know it all don't you, what will striking achieve at the end of the day and inconveniencing millions of people, 99.99% who want to work.

Rhodesy you plonker - why are you quoting yourself and claiming that I'm a "know-it-all" lol. You crack me up, have you taken your medicine today.

 

So Rhodesy, apart from a rabid fear of unions what do you actually disagree with, a living pension as promised by the employers, my own opinions on how to find the money - which at the end of the day are just opinions not my claim for a perfect answer? Do you actually have any ideas of your own - come on even mentally imbalanced you're still a clever chappie - what is it that you as a right wing Thatcherite have to offer? Or is it that you haven't a clue?

 

I'm sure we all wait with baited breath.. haha.

[Rhodes]

Phew folks, I had to fight my way into work this morning through the picket line of three or four sheepish looking blokes in yellow jackets who attempted to shove a leaflet in my hand

[missunderstood]

Phew folks, I had to fight my way into work this morning through the picket line of three or four sheepish looking blokes in yellow jackets who attempted to shove a leaflet in my hand

In my working life anyone colleague that crossed a picket line was forever known as a scab, and thought of as the lowest form of life imaginable. Collectively we made their work life as miserable as possible, as did many of our managers who were more often or not sympathetic to our cause. Not many of them lasted more than a year, and they ended up leaving well paid jobs, with great working conditions because of their own greed and selfishness.

[Loose]

My bet is that Comrade Rhodes won't be turning down any improved benefits gained in his pension package. An example of the type of hypocrite scum that leech from the honest sacrifices of others losing a days pay fighting for their due.

 

Hypocrite scum.

[Rhodes]

Loosely - I had no idea what my pension package was going to be before the goalposts were moved and I have no idea now, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, if a handful of Militants want to stand outside in the freezing cold fighting for their due as you put it, without getting paid, whilst I'm inside a warm office working for Queen and Country then more fool them

[missunderstood]

My bet is that Comrade Rhodes won't be turning down any improved benefits gained in his pension package. An example of the type of hypocrite scum that leech from the honest sacrifices of others losing a days pay fighting for their due.

 

Hypocrite scum.

 

 

Rhodes will probably lose tens of thousands of pounds in his civil service working life, and even more in his retirement years because of the government's spiteful actions against him and all the other public service workers, and by crossing a picket line he is showing support for the very people that treat him with so much contempt. I would hate to be in Rhodes shoes tomorrow when he has to face his ex workmates.

Edited November 30, 2011 by missunderstood

[Eastside Urchin]

Phew folks, I had to fight my way into work this morning through the picket line of three or four sheepish looking blokes in yellow jackets who attempted to shove a leaflet in my hand

In my working life anyone colleague that crossed a picket line was forever known as a scab, and thought of as the lowest form of life imaginable. Collectively we made their work life as miserable as possible, as did many of our managers who were more often or not sympathetic to our cause. Not many of them lasted more than a year, and they ended up leaving well paid jobs, with great working conditions because of their own greed and selfishness.

 

 

And Alan,that is exactly why I despise the majority of unions,with a few exceptions,they are bullies who work on intimidation.Everyone has a right to work and to think how they want.If they don't agree with the unions actions or simply want to work to support their families they are victimised,bullied sometimes violently for just wanting to work.As far as many unions and their members are concerned their way is the only way and while not every member of a union will be a socialist the two go hand in hand and it's no surprise that the minute the Tories get into power,the unions suddenly spring into action.It's no surprise to me after the last few days when the Tories have been saying they want to continue talks,the union leaders (the majority of whom have their own political agendas )have been saying the Tories wouldn't come to the table.When it became obvious today that the disturbances have been minimal,the protests smaller than anticipated,some of the union leaders are now saying that talks have been ongoing.I thought striking was the last option but it appears that since this government came to power striking is just another threat from those with political agendas to unsettle the government and make sure the masses vote labour next time.Make no mistake,this government is far from perfect and like any other government will make many decisions that many people will not like but if you think they are any worse than the last administration you are in for a shock.This government was left with a very difficult economy due to a number of reasons,one being a world wide recession and since day one they have had the unions all over them like a bad rash,not helping the situation at all.

[BUFC]

historically the Conservatives have always been anti union and anti working class

 

 

Bring back an Arthur Scargill type....................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

then bring back a Maggie Thatcher type to smash him

[Eastside Urchin]

If only

[Horace]

If you guys think that Rhodes will be victimised for crossing a ((Whitehall) Civil Service) strike picket line, you are very mistaken.