The 'OLD BOYS SCHOOL' of officials in the CCL

[Redrup No2]

I'll shake the refs hand after a game, no matter what. If he's had a great game or an absolute terrible game, I think it takes a lot to be a ref and admire anyone that does it.

[newby marvel]

I'll shake the refs hand after a game, no matter what. If he's had a great game or an absolute terrible game, I think it takes a lot to be a ref and admire anyone that does it.

Pinocchio...............

[tonydk]

Some of the problems with assistant referees is that they have been on the leagues for a number of years, and the referees know them and just mark them because they are there, and its better to have one doing the job, be it good or bad. . As the assistant referees manager of the Suburban fl, the league hold a meeting before the season for all match officials, where we advise the new rules if any, and then have a chat about the marks they give to assistant referees. I did ask them to mark the assistant referees on the performances they give, not that they have been on years and are know to them...didnt expect to see any marks of 100 (they didnt listen as had 6 this season)..Once the season has started, i get the marks and i write to any referee that marks his assistant referee a mark of 60 or below. I request them to give a small report on why he gave this mark, and it has to have various reasons in the assistant referees performance, not just that he was bad. Once received i will then try, when possible, to get to the next game that this assistant referee is on, mainly a north or south division game (assistant referees on the Suburban FL cover all leagues no matter who they are), and have a look at his performance. I will then have a chat with him either after the game or on the phone, give him some advice and then get to another game he is on over the next couple of weeks. Before the monthly appointments are made, i look at the fixtures, where the teams are in the table, , and then appoint to the games with assistant referees that are doing well on the big games...ie top two , bottom two...local derby's..and these will get assistant referees i feel can help the referee on what could be a hard game. I also have seen every new assistant referee on the Suburban FL list this season, so i know a face to the name, and also know what they are like, they all start on the North or South Division games. After a few games, and having seen them and the marks received, they may get a Premier Division game. All new assistant referees will get a game involving a Premier Division side within the first few months of the season, and hopefully after chating with the assessor apppointment person, will get them assessed. This can only help with the progress, and therefore get the better assistant referees onto the important games towards the end of the season.

 

Not sure if your league officials get to many games, but feel that the as FA place referees onto leagues, and some live miles away from the referees manager, so he does see them first hand, just relies on the club marks. Now while the referees manager was away, i got the club marks for the referees, and i know of one club that marks a referee 70. every game..no matter if good or bad...what use is that to the referees manager!! I will also say on the Suburban FL, when a club marks below 50,,,and you are right its not often, the management committee are advised, and normally the referees manager writes to the referee and asks for his view of the game...

 

and the comments regarding re referees just getting away with bad games.....i know of a number of level 5 referees that were not invited back onto the Suburban FL because of the marks, and i have over the last few years removed most off the older and not up to it assistant referees.

 

We also have meetings for the clubs before the season, and advise them every year that we would pefer to have marks that relate to a referees performance, and thats why the marking system was raised to be out off 100. Before you may have thought referee quite good, but when just out of 10, no half marks were allowed, now he can be marked anything...so if not an 80...can be anything between 71-79 Also in the handbbok there is a guide to marking referees to help the clubs. And as far as i know, there is no fine for marking a referee under 50, and putting comments regarding his performance. It isnt a separate form, unless its really long, there is a section under the marks on the form that all clubs have to send back after every game.

[Big J R]

Thankfully, I don't have the job of marking officials.

 

HOWEVER........... I do meet, greet and deal with them before the game. Generally speaking, most are great, 99.99% to be honest........

 

Having said that, there are still the arrogant little wannabees, young enough to be my grand-son, who wish to treat home club officials as if they are naughty little school-boys. Sorry guys, but I reckon you know who you are !

 

NO NAMES - NO PACK DRILL - My little black-book still has plenty of room and like an elephant, I have a VERY long memory.

[Ace1]

Tonydk,

 

Seems like a great way of dealing with all aspects of officiating. Maybe the CCL should use this model? If not.....why?

[HKP]

The mst pompous official I ever met was a uk one that refused to drink out of a polystyrene cup, insisted he only drank of china! I did his marking for that game...

[Terrence Collina]

Some of the problems with assistant referees is that they have been on the leagues for a number of years, and the referees know them and just mark them because they are there, and its better to have one doing the job, be it good or bad. . As the assistant referees manager of the Suburban fl, the league hold a meeting before the season for all match officials, where we advise the new rules if any, and then have a chat about the marks they give to assistant referees. I did ask them to mark the assistant referees on the performances they give, not that they have been on years and are know to them...didnt expect to see any marks of 100 (they didnt listen as had 6 this season)..Once the season has started, i get the marks and i write to any referee that marks his assistant referee a mark of 60 or below. I request them to give a small report on why he gave this mark, and it has to have various reasons in the assistant referees performance, not just that he was bad. Once received i will then try, when possible, to get to the next game that this assistant referee is on, mainly a north or south division game (assistant referees on the Suburban FL cover all leagues no matter who they are), and have a look at his performance. I will then have a chat with him either after the game or on the phone, give him some advice and then get to another game he is on over the next couple of weeks. Before the monthly appointments are made, i look at the fixtures, where the teams are in the table, , and then appoint to the games with assistant referees that are doing well on the big games...ie top two , bottom two...local derby's..and these will get assistant referees i feel can help the referee on what could be a hard game. I also have seen every new assistant referee on the Suburban FL list this season, so i know a face to the name, and also know what they are like, they all start on the North or South Division games. After a few games, and having seen them and the marks received, they may get a Premier Division game. All new assistant referees will get a game involving a Premier Division side within the first few months of the season, and hopefully after chating with the assessor apppointment person, will get them assessed. This can only help with the progress, and therefore get the better assistant referees onto the important games towards the end of the season.

 

Not sure if your league officials get to many games, but feel that the as FA place referees onto leagues, and some live miles away from the referees manager, so he does see them first hand, just relies on the club marks. Now while the referees manager was away, i got the club marks for the referees, and i know of one club that marks a referee 70. every game..no matter if good or bad...what use is that to the referees manager!! I will also say on the Suburban FL, when a club marks below 50,,,and you are right its not often, the management committee are advised, and normally the referees manager writes to the referee and asks for his view of the game...

 

and the comments regarding re referees just getting away with bad games.....i know of a number of level 5 referees that were not invited back onto the Suburban FL because of the marks, and i have over the last few years removed most off the older and not up to it assistant referees.

 

We also have meetings for the clubs before the season, and advise them every year that we would pefer to have marks that relate to a referees performance, and thats why the marking system was raised to be out off 100. Before you may have thought referee quite good, but when just out of 10, no half marks were allowed, now he can be marked anything...so if not an 80...can be anything between 71-79 Also in the handbbok there is a guide to marking referees to help the clubs. And as far as i know, there is no fine for marking a referee under 50, and putting comments regarding his performance. It isnt a separate form, unless its really long, there is a section under the marks on the form that all clubs have to send back after every game.

 

thats fine moving them off if they are not up to it, but I think that there are more officials who wan to to officiate on the SFL rather than the CCL.

 

What did you make of the report we almost put in?

[tonydk]

TC

 

and why do you think that is?? Are the teams in the Suburban FL showing more respect!!! to the match officials... at the last meeting we were running at 2.1 cautions per game and .75 red cards per game. and i know that the person who advises the committee has advised that very few are now for dissent.

 

The Suburban FL do have some weeks when we are short of assistant referee, mainly when the FA Cup & Vase earlier rounds are been played, we seem to have a large number been used by the FA.

 

will have another read of the report and reply again..

 

tk

[Terrence Collina]

all I am saying Tony is that the Suburban is a better standard that CCL1 and a lot of CCL Prem so the better officials are going to want to go there, so it is easier for you to 'bin' the poor officials than the CCL becasue you will always have people queuing up. The CCL can't do that as we'll end up with no officials.

[tonydk]

tc

 

a few years ago the suburban fl was struggling for assistant referees, due to the way the appointing was done, and a number went to the CCL and other leagues . A lot of them have not come back to us, just been lucky that i went to a number of referees meetings in all areas and put the case of the suburban fl to the referees and slowly got more coming over, and also i think that the more i went round to games the more i could help them by giving some advice and therefore seening those that were not up to the standard i and the league expected.. Also have had a number of meetings with all match officials, getting in very good speakers to talk to them, giving advice in all areas. We are about to have a mid season meeting with all referees regarding various matters that as a league feel they are not doing correctly, and in this meeting the marking of assistant referees will be mentioned again, and a number of assessors will also be there and the main points that they have raised in the assessements so far over the first part of the season will be highlighted to them, so hopefully they can improve in the 2nd part of the season.

 

There are a number of assistant referees who do both leagues, and i must admit a lot say to me that there is more dissent from the teams on the CCL.

[Krooner]

IMHO having done bothe leagues is that there is that the dissent level at suburban Prem was a lot lower than the CCL. I personally put that down to one reason. The majority of Suburban sides are run by coaches and not managers. The coaches are more concerned with their players reactions to decisions and how they set up for the next phase of play. A lot of the CCL managers are ex players who are more worried about a decision the ref makes rather than what their players are doing. From my experience the regional divisions of the suburban were no better than the Reserve section of the CCL. Just my experience and I stopped doing Suburban a few years ago.

[Ace1]

The Surburban League is also a reserve or youth league with less pressures on teams and managers to get results. The main emphasis is on developing players or getting first team players match-fit after injury etc, due to this it is easier to officiate. From my experiance in the league for three years there was also an assessor at every game we played in!

[HKP]

On the subject of dissent, this is very much in the hands of the officials (hopefully backed up by the League), apply the Laws of the game and diessent will stop. Player swears at you, again apply the Laws of the Game. I have been campaiging for this to happen in the Premier league for years, its like ps$$ing in the wind though.

[JPH]

On the subject of dissent, this is very much in the hands of the officials (hopefully backed up by the League), apply the Laws of the game and diessent will stop. Player swears at you, again apply the Laws of the Game. I have been campaiging for this to happen in the Premier league for years, its like ps$$ing in the wind though.

 

Referees are in a lose lose on that one though arent they? Clamp down and they are too harsh and "dont understand the game" and be tolerant and they "lose the game"

[HKP]

it comes down to respect, in Rugby a player would never talk to a referee in the way a footballer would. Why is that?

I have no problem with a Referee applying the Laws of the Game as long as they are applied across the board.

 

I have never understood why footballers think its OK to swear etc at the referee, just because they think hes given an incorrect decision.

Edited November 15, 2011 by HKP

[Eastside Urchin]

Disagree,referees through the governing bodies need to stamp out dissent.Nothing is more infuriating as a fan than seeing one of your players booked for mouthing off.

I appreciate football is a passionate game but officials must be able to make a decision without having each decision questioned by the players.

About time players got on with the game,accepted the decision and moved on.

Edited November 15, 2011 by Eastside Urchin

[Terrence Collina]

agree JPH, it has been mentioned before but a referee will be on a hiding to nothing if they do clamp down. I would love for it to happen, but it requires every single referee doing it and human nature dictates that it won't happen.

[HKP]

it also needs to start at the top... i.e. in the Premier League and then let it filter down.

[newby marvel]

it also needs to start at the top... i.e. in the Premier League and then let it filter down.

this wont happen look at the terry situation its dragging on yet other scenarios are dealt with straight away the spitting alcaraz was dealt with its a shambles!!

 

agree with tc clamp it out if takes for a team to have 7 or 8 yellows before shutting up about the refs descisions then so be it

[Gluck_ab]

On that note, I was an official recently at a game in which the referee cautioned 5 (five) players from one team for dissent so it does happen. However, my thoughts (for what they're worth) are;

 

- in the same way that referees are encouraged to attend a Respect workshop, our club officials, management and players encouraged to also?

 

- are players fully aware of the Laws of the game and how the referee must apply those?

In my experience, the majority are not and I am particularly sceptical when a player queries a decision by including 'I've done the course / i am a referee too' in his words to me when, in reality, the reason for that decision is obvious.

 

- have clubs considered inviting the County FA, League officials or practising referees to deliver some form of training / discussion on the laws of the game and their application. As i see it, part of the problem is understanding and communication (by all parties), and getting the relevant people involved in one room to discuss the issues might well help things subsequently.