How good is the ccl???

[bomaya]

 

Chertsey are just the latest in a long line of teams to go up from the CCL and not come back. I know it's hard to be relegated from step 4 but none of the clubs promoted from the CCL under the current pyramid structure have been relegated back down to it. You can't say that for other leagues like the Kent and Sussex.

 

 

Not looking too great for North Greenford and Bedfont Town at the moment though...

[NICE GUY]

 

Chertsey are just the latest in a long line of teams to go up from the CCL and not come back. I know it's hard to be relegated from step 4 but none of the clubs promoted from the CCL under the current pyramid structure have been relegated back down to it. You can't say that for other leagues like the Kent and Sussex.

 

 

Not looking too great for North Greenford and Bedfont Town at the moment though...

 

Remember what I said on other threads................soon managers will be looking over their shoulders.......watch this space !

[mattwefc]

smudge i would love to know exactly how you think ive been disrespectful? my opinion as stated already and you will notice i make no mention of windsor and eton. that is becasue as you point out money was important and in the end it cost me the club i loved. the other clubs i have named do not have those issues to the best of my knowledge (as in they are not well publicised). as a loyal fan however there was a vast amount of hidden truths behind the downfall of the old club that never came to the fore. right now i am grateful for the club that i can now support and enjoy visiting new grounds that until this season i had not been to.

all i have done is stated my honest opinion that s+w1 clubs are of a better standard that the ccl. nothing more than that. if you want to attack me on here for having that opinion then feel free but don't start arguments about the old windsor and eton. the majority of fans, including me had very little insider knowledge of what exactly was happening so i refuse to be drawn in to an argument regarding the deceased clubs and its finances as i do not know the true details.

[NCEL fan]

Interesting discussion. I'm loosely connected to people in Guernsey so have seen 3 games this season in CCL1.

 

I have been very close to non league football in the north and I get the impression that the CCL is not the strongest step 5/6 set up. I do think sides have frozen against Guernsey so its hard to get a fair/balanced view. I also have seen the CCL prem in action yet.

 

What I will say is that the CCL seems have just as strong a spirit, passion and collective pride in itself generally as any other league at this level.

 

I look at Vase results to address this one and on that basis, I would suggest the Northern League is the strongest around. Crowds are up, some players are picking up 200 quid plus with their clubs having playing budgets around the 2.5k a week mark - I don't think that's the case with the CCL Prem! Spennymoor and Shildon are signing players from clubs like Blyth and Harrogate Town because they pay more money! That's 3 steps lower in the pyramid from BS North down to NL1.

 

I live near a few NCEL clubs and watch the odd game when I can - watching Brid Town v Tadcaster Albion 2 weeks ago was a great experience - 1st v 5th in the league at the time. Great ground (ex-Northern Prem so 4 or five stands around the ground), 300 or so watching and a great game of football (about Guernsey's level I would say).

 

That said, 1600 at Footes lane was some experience too! The NCEL has Scarborough in their league (who play at Brid's ground and pay pretty big money) but they only get 300-600.

 

I've loved seeing a few CCL games (been to Westfield and Cobham) and I don't think its the best step 5/6 league in the pyramid but I'm not sure there's a friendlier bunch around at this level.

[NICE GUY]

Interesting discussion. I'm loosely connected to people in Guernsey so have seen 3 games this season in CCL1.

 

I have been very close to non league football in the north and I get the impression that the CCL is not the strongest step 5/6 set up. I do think sides have frozen against Guernsey so its hard to get a fair/balanced view. I also have seen the CCL prem in action yet.

 

What I will say is that the CCL seems have just as strong a spirit, passion and collective pride in itself generally as any other league at this level.

 

I look at Vase results to address this one and on that basis, I would suggest the Northern League is the strongest around. Crowds are up, some players are picking up 200 quid plus with their clubs having playing budgets around the 2.5k a week mark - I don't think that's the case with the CCL Prem! Spennymoor and Shildon are signing players from clubs like Blyth and Harrogate Town because they pay more money! That's 3 steps lower in the pyramid from BS North down to NL1.

 

I live near a few NCEL clubs and watch the odd game when I can - watching Brid Town v Tadcaster Albion 2 weeks ago was a great experience - 1st v 5th in the league at the time. Great ground (ex-Northern Prem so 4 or five stands around the ground), 300 or so watching and a great game of football (about Guernsey's level I would say).

 

That said, 1600 at Footes lane was some experience too! The NCEL has Scarborough in their league (who play at Brid's ground and pay pretty big money) but they only get 300-600.

 

I've loved seeing a few CCL games (been to Westfield and Cobham) and I don't think its the best step 5/6 league in the pyramid but I'm not sure there's a friendlier bunch around at this level.

 

 

Thanks NCEL for your input, it was very interesting to hear a view from the North.

 

No disrespect to CCL Div. 1 clubs, but I think in all honesty, we should gauge Guernsey when they step upto the CCL Premier, which having seen them, will be title contenders if not winners.

 

So in brief NCEL, are you saying that Northern Clubs like Spennymoor and Shildon are paying players +£200.00 per week with a weekly budget of £2,500.00 at level 5....wow ! If that is the case, is it not surprising that Northern Clubs are stronger ! You would get a very good Ryman Div 1 (level/step 4) team and a good Ryman Prem (level/step 3) for that maybe even higher !

 

Vase 4 time winners Whitley Bay get 300-500 spectators, which is way above what CCL Premier clubs get so again, we can see how difficult it is for them to compete.

 

Of course the better supported clubs are better financially if managed well, can pay their players this kind of wage subsequently become the better team. Basically and unfortunately, at ALL level's it's down to money I'm afraid, look at Man City even the top 5-6 in the Premier they are all the richest clubs in the league.

 

Not enough money is put into grass roots by the FA to help the countless volunteers who work their butt off week in and week out (some not appreciated by players may I add) to ensure their club survive and maintain the ground to meet the required regulations.

 

Alas, unlike the CCL clubs who are lucky to have attendances of 50 in Div.1 and 100 in Premier. So with this minute financial backing how can clubs in the CCL compete, when some clubs are paying NOTHING to their players, some cover traveling costs say £20-£30 albeit there are a few clubs that are ''alledegly'' splashing out money, the likes of Guildford, Badshot Lea, Camberley, Egham....but that is why there is so much hu ha about Hanworth Villa's achievement.

 

Now when you have clubs like Guernsey draw 1400, 1500 and 1600 spectators each paying £4.00/£5.00 (whatever it is) each thats in the region of lets say £5000.00 I do find it hard to believe the comments that no Guernsey player bets paid, they play for what ?... the prestige of playing for their NATIONAL team I suppose. Is it no wonder the likes of Guersney again with their financial backing are and will do well.

 

It's all about money............thats why we all love a banana skin !!!

Edited October 28, 2011 by NICE GUY

[Penfold]

How many times do people have to post about the fact that GFC players do not get paid to play. It is not and never has been part of the football culture in the Island to pay players, so playing for free has never been questioned. Obviously the club takes a good sum of money at each home game but that money is used for travel expenses that are far higher than other clubs. Finally I would just like to point out that GFC is not the national representative side. It is a club team affiliated to our Governing body the GFA. It is they who run the Island (representative) team.

[Brunty.]

Bit off subject but why havent Whitley Bay been promoted....? surely 4 time vase winner must have won their league....

[Farnborough fc manager]

They've only applied once and that year only finished 3rd. Dont want the further costs and winning the Vase each year is very profitable rather than being potential also rans higher up the Leagues-lovely people up there and they love their football and their team could easily handle step 4 and beyond

Edited October 28, 2011 by chertseytown

[Green_Fingers]

How many times do people have to post about the fact that GFC players do not get paid to play. It is not and never has been part of the football culture in the Island to pay players, so playing for free has never been questioned. Obviously the club takes a good sum of money at each home game but that money is used for travel expenses that are far higher than other clubs. Finally I would just like to point out that GFC is not the national representative side. It is a club team affiliated to our Governing body the GFA. It is they who run the Island (representative) team.

 

GFC do have most if not all of the (successful) Guernsey National / Representative squad signed on though Penfold, so the comment is a valid one. Do you think GFA will continue to select GFC Club Members for the National side, or will GFC commitments come 1st?

 

One of the more interesting articles on the whole GFC project is linked here:

 

http://twofootedtackle.com/non-league/guernsey-fc-ready-for-combined-counties-league-debut/

[VPCTFC]

Interesting discussion. I'm loosely connected to people in Guernsey so have seen 3 games this season in CCL1.

 

I have been very close to non league football in the north and I get the impression that the CCL is not the strongest step 5/6 set up. I do think sides have frozen against Guernsey so its hard to get a fair/balanced view. I also have seen the CCL prem in action yet.

 

What I will say is that the CCL seems have just as strong a spirit, passion and collective pride in itself generally as any other league at this level.

 

I look at Vase results to address this one and on that basis, I would suggest the Northern League is the strongest around. Crowds are up, some players are picking up 200 quid plus with their clubs having playing budgets around the 2.5k a week mark - I don't think that's the case with the CCL Prem! Spennymoor and Shildon are signing players from clubs like Blyth and Harrogate Town because they pay more money! That's 3 steps lower in the pyramid from BS North down to NL1.

 

I live near a few NCEL clubs and watch the odd game when I can - watching Brid Town v Tadcaster Albion 2 weeks ago was a great experience - 1st v 5th in the league at the time. Great ground (ex-Northern Prem so 4 or five stands around the ground), 300 or so watching and a great game of football (about Guernsey's level I would say).

 

That said, 1600 at Footes lane was some experience too! The NCEL has Scarborough in their league (who play at Brid's ground and pay pretty big money) but they only get 300-600.

 

I've loved seeing a few CCL games (been to Westfield and Cobham) and I don't think its the best step 5/6 league in the pyramid but I'm not sure there's a friendlier bunch around at this level.

 

Interesting post NCEL.

I've got no problem with NL teams, or anyone else, paying silly money for players if they can afford it. What they do with their dosh is their business but, in the case of the Northern League, you have to question why they're spending that much.

Very few NL sides apply for promotion and those that do, such as Whitley, haven't finished high enough to get promoted. A lot of the club's excuses for not wanting promotion is due to the travelling they'd have to do at step 4. Completely understandable based on what's happened to teams like Durham in the past but it's clearly not a financial issue if they're paying that much on players. It sounds like some players are taking the pee out of clubs by playing at a lower level for more money knowing that if the club got promoted the money wouldn't increase but the travelling would so they'd probably just join another Northern League team.

I know there are some players around here that will drop a level or two for more money whilst others would rather play at a higher level for less so it's not just a northern thing. Having said that, I can understand footballers trying to maximise their income while they can. Farnborough shifted out their part-timers and have got a squad of full-time youngsters in for less money. Meanwhile their old players have scattered themselves around the south east picking up more money for their part-time job than some of us earn in our full-time jobs. Nice work if you can get it!

I've long been of the opinion that all this stuff about travelling in the higher levels of non-league football is a red herring while players are getting paid as much as they are.

[Penfold]

How many times do people have to post about the fact that GFC players do not get paid to play. It is not and never has been part of the football culture in the Island to pay players, so playing for free has never been questioned. Obviously the club takes a good sum of money at each home game but that money is used for travel expenses that are far higher than other clubs. Finally I would just like to point out that GFC is not the national representative side. It is a club team affiliated to our Governing body the GFA. It is they who run the Island (representative) team.

 

GFC do have most if not all of the (successful) Guernsey National / Representative squad signed on though Penfold, so the comment is a valid one. Do you think GFA will continue to select GFC Club Members for the National side, or will GFC commitments come 1st?

 

One of the more interesting articles on the whole GFC project is linked here:

 

http://twofootedtack...s-league-debut/

 

 

Green_Fingers the GFA would be naive to make GFC players unavailable for representative selection as the rep side would be weakened considerably. To make the players choose, as seems to be the case, would be similarly naive, as they will all choose regular football of a high standard over the odd friendly and biannual tournament football. Plus of course the Muratti v Jersey. I think that all local football supporters hope that the GFA and GFC can work together for the better of local football. Currently the GFA have stated that any player who chooses GFC commitments over the Muratti semi final ( against Alderney, as it clashes with the Bookham fixture ) will not be available for Muratti final selection. Oddly enough though, Tony Vance is the coach of both sides!!!

Sorry for going off topic again, but I was just answering G_F's question.

[NCEL fan]

I can understand why some lads do drop down for the money - playing for Blyth and travelling to places like Bishop Stortford!! That's some journey. Average away trip for them must be 3 hour drive, and I know that's an extreme case but if Spenny and Shildon pay more brass and only have to travel a maximum of an hour, its understandable for lads who are maybe on their way down, perhaps have been pros but are now having to put the development of a normal career outside the game first to secure their future.

 

The fact that Guernsey play for no money (fact, believe me) is great but the island knows nothing else - the corinthian spirit is so strong because they are representing their island (its an unofficial full island side after all), they are becoming heroes for young Guernsey kids and they are led by an outstanding and inspirational coaching team. You just have to look at Chris Tardif - last season he was with Basingstoke in the BS South probably earning 2-300 a week and he's playing for free now. That said, his move back to the island is all about family so he'd have only been playing locally anyway. I'd hazard a guess that he'd say playing for GFC means more to him than most teams he's played for in the UK, despite the fact his work limits the number of away trips he can make.

 

In my experience, money's not great for the game at this level but you can't ignore it.

[LionHerts]

How many times do people have to post about the fact that GFC players do not get paid to play. It is not and never has been part of the football culture in the Island to pay players, so playing for free has never been questioned. Obviously the club takes a good sum of money at each home game but that money is used for travel expenses that are far higher than other clubs. Finally I would just like to point out that GFC is not the national representative side. It is a club team affiliated to our Governing body the GFA. It is they who run the Island (representative) team.

 

GFC do have most if not all of the (successful) Guernsey National / Representative squad signed on though Penfold, so the comment is a valid one. Do you think GFA will continue to select GFC Club Members for the National side, or will GFC commitments come 1st?

 

One of the more interesting articles on the whole GFC project is linked here:

 

http://twofootedtack...s-league-debut/

 

 

Green_Fingers the GFA would be naive to make GFC players unavailable for representative selection as the rep side would be weakened considerably. To make the players choose, as seems to be the case, would be similarly naive, as they will all choose regular football of a high standard over the odd friendly and biannual tournament football. Plus of course the Muratti v Jersey. I think that all local football supporters hope that the GFA and GFC can work together for the better of local football. Currently the GFA have stated that any player who chooses GFC commitments over the Muratti semi final ( against Alderney, as it clashes with the Bookham fixture ) will not be available for Muratti final selection. Oddly enough though, Tony Vance is the coach of both sides!!!

Sorry for going off topic again, but I was just answering G_F's question.

 

Apologies but I'll start off topic. GFC/Guernsey representative selection is down to Tony Vance. If he doesn't select GFC players against Alderney they won't have the opportunity to make themselves unavailable so a full strength team can go out against Jersey. That said, why should the match against Jersey be seen as such a big deal, after all their take on a rugby inter-insular is to put a professional outfit against the egg chasing equivalent of a CCL Prem team.

 

As to the quality of the CCL I can only comment on having seen GFC's away games this season. On paper, some easy wins seen for GFC (eg Frimley Green, Cobham, CB Hounslow (and others)). In reality hard fought wins with cracking displays (eg Frimley and Hounslow goalkeepers) and a bloke called Ross Allen helps as well.

 

Off the field, the CCL seems to have it cracked - really good times everywhere we've been so far.

 

Before GFC my last experience of non-league football was 15 or so years ago watching Berko Town in the Ryman League as was. Lots of clubs paying silly money to 'gunslinger' strikers and the like and often ending in tears. Seem to recall Croydon losing pretty much their whole squad mid-season one year and shipping 13 or 14 against Berko (who were bottom half themselves).

 

CCL seems pretty healthy and, importantly, sustainable to me.

[NCEL fan]

Lionherts - really good point about sustainability, the lack of mega bucks clubs in the CCL means that we shouldn't see the nonsense that occurs one one or two clubs raise the bar money wise and in trying to compete, clubs nearly go out of business.

 

Re - the Muratti being a big deal, it just is, and all the GFC players are desperate to play in it. I watched every one from about 1985 to 1996 and played in a couple as well. Its not quite the event it was in terms of crowd size (12,000 in the 50s, now about 2,500 to 3000) but it means the world, believe me.

[Krooner]

I have seen a couple of other sides from around the other local leagues and for me there is no difference in the CCL, Hellenic or Sussex league.

 

For me part of the problem in this area is that we are not a natural footballing area. I went to Matlock on holiday and there last FA Trophy match was sponsored by the local county council. when was the last time Surrey county Council sponsored a non league football match ?

[VPCTFC]

I have seen a couple of other sides from around the other local leagues and for me there is no difference in the CCL, Hellenic or Sussex league.

 

For me part of the problem in this area is that we are not a natural footballing area. I went to Matlock on holiday and there last FA Trophy match was sponsored by the local county council. when was the last time Surrey county Council sponsored a non league football match ?

 

I know where you're coming from re. not a natural footballing area in some people's minds but I disagree.

Surrey was one of the main areas of the early game's development. The first ever meeting of the FA was dominated by clubs from what was then Surrey and surrounding areas. The full list - Barnes, War Office, Crusaders, Forest of Leytonstone, No Names (Kilburn), Crystal Palace, Blackheath, Kensington School, Percival House (Blackheath), Surbiton, Blackheath Proprietory School and Charterhouse.

Even today the county has more clubs than nearly every other.

When another was alive he did a database based on postcodes and it turns out the GU area had more clubs down to step 6 than any other postcode area and then there are the Amateur Leagues which are full of teams from this neck of the woods.

There are all sorts of demographics in play and the feeling that Surrey is now a commuter/overspill county where people don't have an affinity with their home town or county anymore. Because of that I can see what people mean by saying it's not a natural football area.

 

Must go. Got a busy day today. After football I'm attending a function at Dorkinians FC in Pixham Lane (Dorking CC play there as well I think). One of the oldest football grounds in Surrey that's still used. I don't know where it ranks in terms of historic cricket grounds.

Edited October 29, 2011 by VPCTFC

[Krooner]

You sort of prove my point VP

 

There is also the ability to provide facilities too which do appear a little easier the further north you go. Perhaps sides should look at coming together. Camberley and Frimley Green for example or Sandhurst and Bracknell etc. Now that will start it all off !!!

[Green_Fingers]

You sort of prove my point VP

 

There is also the ability to provide facilities too which do appear a little easier the further north you go. Perhaps sides should look at coming together. Camberley and Frimley Green for example or Sandhurst and Bracknell etc. Now that will start it all off !!!

 

You and Duncs as a team - what a good idea

[Krooner]

Yeah I would need someone to carry my cones.

[duncs]

you couldnt lace my boots fat boy