How good is the ccl???

[Ftfc]

after several games out of the ccl and speaking to several people is the ccl prem poor compared to other step 5 leagues just wondering what you lot think ?

[Ace1]

The Combined Counties is not as well supported ie, getting people through the turnstiles, and sponsered as other leagues at Step 5. Certainly the Hellenic is better supported and sponsered. Do the League actively recruit sponsers? Is the sponsers money fed into clubs?

[Weeble]

It is a good league but when was the last time a club from the CCL won the Vase or have 3 or 4 in the last 8 / 16 of the Vase. I know the Villa are doing great in the FA cup this year and I hope it continues but as a league it does not happen consistantly enough like it does with some of our Northern equivalents.

[NICE GUY]

It is a good league but when was the last time a club from the CCL won the Vase or have 3 or 4 in the last 8 / 16 of the Vase. I know the Villa are doing great in the FA cup this year and I hope it continues but as a league it does not happen consistantly enough like it does with some of our Northern equivalents.

 

The problem we have Weebs is that within the CCL teams are MAXIMUM 1 hour or so apart from each other unless you have to go to Croydon that is !!! But seriously, there lies the problem because as you know players do their normal travels withing the CCL circuit which suits them because of the acceptable traveling, thats why many Ryman level players come down to play CCL.

 

Lets take your Hampton, they have so many many other clubs around them, for players to choose from, then we have the likes of the Camberley, Sandhurst, Badshot Lea, Cove area just too many clubs.

 

Teams from midlands upwards do not have so many clubs in close vacinity to each other so they can pick and choose better players without so much competition from other clubs.

 

I think that makes sense ???

 

Also lets not forget how well (or not) the CCL clubs are supported in comparison to those up north, which as we know generates money. This money helps bring a bigger player budget, for example look up the home attendance that Whitley Bay get between 400-600 it all helps to get better players so more successful...........usually !

Edited October 23, 2011 by NICE GUY

[Footy Mad]

It is a good league but when was the last time a club from the CCL won the Vase or have 3 or 4 in the last 8 / 16 of the Vase. I know the Villa are doing great in the FA cup this year and I hope it continues but as a league it does not happen consistantly enough like it does with some of our Northern equivalents.

 

The problem we have Weebs is that within the CCL teams are MAXIMUM 1 hour or so apart from each other unless you have to go to Croydon that is !!! But seriously, there lies the problem because as you know players do their normal travels withing the CCL circuit which suits them because of the acceptable traveling, thats why many Ryman level players come down to play CCL.

 

Lets take your Hampton, they have so many many other clubs around them, for players to choose from, then we have the likes of the Camberley, Sandhurst, Badshot Lea, Cove area just too many clubs.

 

Teams from midlands upwards do not have so many clubs in close vacinity to each other so they can pick and choose better players without so much competition from other clubs.

 

I think that makes sense ???

 

 

Makes sense to me NG

[VPCTFC]

Teams from midlands upwards do not have so many clubs in close vacinity to each other so they can pick and choose better players without so much competition from other clubs.

 

I think that makes sense ???

 

It makes sense but it's not necessarily right. Have a look at the maps on the non-league matters site, have another think and come back with another theory.

Here's a map with the 2008-09 teams on it which was the last national one done before another passed away.

http://www.tonykemps...co.uk/step5.htm

 

Most leagues do cover a wider area but if you look at the Northern League it's virtually the same as the CCL apart from Penrith. We could say the same with Guernsey. if you're talking about travelling time then some of these leagues are a lot easier to get around than the CCL as they don't have the M25 and that big lump called London in the way although the M6 can be a bugger at times as well.

 

All maps down to step 6 and some below at http://www.nonleague...teps/steps-5-6/

 

The only way to tell how strong leagues at the same level are is to compare their results when they play each other. I've got the CCL cup results listed so can sort out a table. Hold on a while....

Edited October 23, 2011 by VPCTFC

[NICE GUY]

It is a good league but when was the last time a club from the CCL won the Vase or have 3 or 4 in the last 8 / 16 of the Vase. I know the Villa are doing great in the FA cup this year and I hope it continues but as a league it does not happen consistantly enough like it does with some of our Northern equivalents.

 

The problem we have Weebs is that within the CCL teams are MAXIMUM 1 hour or so apart from each other unless you have to go to Croydon that is !!! But seriously, there lies the problem because as you know players do their normal travels withing the CCL circuit which suits them because of the acceptable traveling, thats why many Ryman level players come down to play CCL.

 

Lets take your Hampton, they have so many many other clubs around them, for players to choose from, then we have the likes of the Camberley, Sandhurst, Badshot Lea, Cove area just too many clubs.

 

Teams from midlands upwards do not have so many clubs in close vacinity to each other so they can pick and choose better players without so much competition from other clubs.

 

I think that makes sense ???

 

Also lets not forget how well (or not) the CCL clubs are supported in comparison to those up north, which as we know generates money. This money helps bring a bigger player budget, for example look up the home attendance that Whitley Bay get between 400-600 it all helps to get better players so more successful...........usually !

 

VP and the last paragraph ?

[VPCTFC]

I agree with you on the attendance front although the Hellenic as mentioned in the earlier post is pretty poor - actually slightly lower than the CCL so far this season. Again, all the figures from around the country are on the NonLeagueMatters site.

It's good to see some CCL teams experimenting with Friday games / free entry games etc and they generally work but getting punters through the gate week in, week out is a struggle.

It doesn't help that hardly any CCL sides say how much it is to get in on their websites. We all know it's usually £6 but the idea is to attract new people to the games and keeping these things a secret is one of the things that winds me up. It doesn't happen in any other form of entertainment and almost every other club in the country down to step 4 makes this information available. I've given up trying to get our web fella to put the prices on our website so I've started my own CTFC website on Pitchero which should hopefully provide more information and be more accurate and up to date when I've got it and running properly.

 

Anyroad - back to the original question and here are the stats. I haven't split them between CCL Premier & CCL1 but in the last ten years of Combined Counties v other step 5 leagues in the FA Cup and Vase the scores on the doors (ignoring draws) are:

 

CCL 59 Sussex One 60

CCL 39 Kent 69

CCL 18 Hellenic Premier 22

CCL 18 Wessex Premier 28

CCL 9 Spartan SM 7

CCL 8 United Counties Premier 9

CCL 5 Essex Senior League 8

CCL 5 Eastern Counties Premier 11

CCL 1 Northern Counties East 0

CCL 1 Northern League 1

CCL 1 Midland Alliance 1

CCL 1 Western Premier 2

CCL 0 North West Counties 1

 

Like I said - this is the CCL combined. I'll see if I can come up with some figures based on Premier Division teams only for accuracy and maybe do a table for the last five years as the leagues have changed so much in ten years.

Edited October 23, 2011 by VPCTFC

[tempestward]

Hugely impressive stats, VPCTFC. What it does show, though, is that generally we are the poorer league in cups. We beat Greenwich Borough on Saturday (and as this is written on Monday morning I have no idea who we have got in the next round of the Vase) and I have to say that they played some decent football which would compare with some I have seen in CCL Premier, even though Greenwich are bottom of the Kent Premier. It is true that we tend to swap players a lot between us. We have just signed Enrico Rossoni from Eversley (and he scored on Saturday on his debut).

[VPCTFC]

Here you go.

Combined Counties Premier v other step 5 divisions in the FA Cup and Vase in the last five years.

 

CCLP 39 Sussex One 28 (with 15 draws)

CCLP 21 Kent 40 (6 draws)

CCLP 10 Hellenic Premier 7 (1 draw)

CCLP 8 Wessex Premier 8 (5 draws)

CCLP 4 Spartan SM Premier 4

CCLP 4 United Counties League Premier 5

CCLP 2 Essex Senior 6

CCLP 1 Northern Counties East 0

CCLP 1 Midland Alliance 0

CCLP 1 Western Premier 0

CCLP 1 Northern League One 1 (1 draw)

CCLP 1 Eastern Counties Premier 7 (2 draws)

 

So it looks like you can say we're stronger than the Hellenic and Sussex Leagues. I'm sure they'd both deny it though.

Kent are beating us a hell of a lot more than we're beating them at the moment.

One other thing to note - in the past the Wessex League were usually beating us but over the last few years the balance has shifted. I know a couple of people involved with teams in the Wessex say the standard of that league is going down fast!

[Rother]

I am now into my 4th season of watching Windsor (& Eton) and IMO the standard of the CCL Premier is (overall) at least as good as the Southern League Div 1.

[Fat Boy]

Think you are on drugs Rother. That is a step 4 league that is far far far better than the CCL. I would say the CCL is about average among equivalent other step 5 leagues.

[johnnojudo]

Well I've now played in both those levels/leagues and can report that the ccl and southern league are miles apart. Players at step 4 are fitter, stronger, quicker and just much better. Also I'm sorry to say that in a ccl team you will usually get 1 or 2 weak links/players in the team. I've not come across this in the southern league. Not once have we come across a team and been able to say "play on the left back... he's dog s**t". The whole team are top quality thru to the subs too.

[Mrs_Cat]

Have to agree with the previous couple of comments. I've not seen a team so far this season that wouldn't be bottom three in the Southern S/W division. In saying that we still haven’t played Guildford, Hanworth or Horley, so my opinion might change.

Having seen Windsor play at several levels of football now I would have to say the biggest difference between the leagues is the quality of the strikers. In the Southern Premier it seemed like a 50% chances to goals ratio whereas in the southern Div1 that probably dropped to around 25% and in the CCL it seems to be lower.

 

Diffcult to compare the different step5 leagues as the only other team I've seen recently is Flackwell Heath, who were quite impressive and would do well at step4.

[mattwefc]

i couldn't agree more with that, the strikers are definitely not as good as you go down the divisions and that shows in the amount of chances that go begging every game. the south and west is a class above anything in the ccl, spare possibly guildford who we'll see this weekend.

the squads at the higher level are better too, theres options to change from the bench and there are players who are more than capable of psuhing for places in the conference at least. facilities at clubs at that level are, barring a few exceptions, a lot better that those in the ccl. the big difference for me though is the fitness of the players and the higher leagues are definitely more physical.

 

the fact that guildford won the title last season having dropped 40 odd points says that a lot of the teams are roughly the same quality too. compare that to the s+w 1 where there have always been stand out clubs that rack mammoth points totals and a set of 8 - 10 clubs that constantly push for the play offs every season. the quality is there for all to see.

Edited October 26, 2011 by mattwefc

[VPCTFC]

i couldn't agree more with that, the strikers are definitely not as good as you go down the divisions and that shows in the amount of chances that go begging every game. the south and west is a class above anything in the ccl, spare possibly guildford who we'll see this weekend.

the squads at the higher level are better too, theres options to change from the bench and there are players who are more than capable of psuhing for places in the conference at least. facilities at clubs at that level are, barring a few exceptions, a lot better that those in the ccl. the big difference for me though is the fitness of the players and the higher leagues are definitely more physical.

 

the fact that guildford won the title last season having dropped 40 odd points says that a lot of the teams are roughly the same quality too. compare that to the s+w 1 where there have always been stand out clubs that rack mammoth points totals and a set of 8 - 10 clubs that constantly push for the play offs every season. the quality is there for all to see.

 

That's not a fact regarding Guildford. They only dropped 27 points last season. Totton in SL1S&W dropped 23 in winning the title but I don't see what that's got to do with anything - the SL is a step up so should be better than all the step 5 leagues although Chertsey are just the latest in a long line of teams to go up from the CCL and not come back. I know it's hard to be relegated from step 4 but none of the clubs promoted from the CCL under the current pyramid structure have been relegated back down to it. You can't say that for other leagues like the Kent and Sussex.

From the little I've seen of Isthmian 1 South there are some dreadful teams in it who would struggle in the CCL, on the other hand I've seen Bognor this season and they were a class above in all departments but then they only lost out on promotion last season by one goal and then lost to a team who finished 31 points behind them in the play off! I don't know if they missed any penalties last season but, if they did, the player taking it must be gutted!

I agree that a big difference is that step 4 sides are more solid with no obvious weak points.

Edited October 26, 2011 by VPCTFC

[NICE GUY]

i couldn't agree more with that, the strikers are definitely not as good as you go down the divisions and that shows in the amount of chances that go begging every game. the south and west is a class above anything in the ccl, spare possibly guildford who we'll see this weekend.

the squads at the higher level are better too, theres options to change from the bench and there are players who are more than capable of psuhing for places in the conference at least. facilities at clubs at that level are, barring a few exceptions, a lot better that those in the ccl. the big difference for me though is the fitness of the players and the higher leagues are definitely more physical.

 

the fact that guildford won the title last season having dropped 40 odd points says that a lot of the teams are roughly the same quality too. compare that to the s+w 1 where there have always been stand out clubs that rack mammoth points totals and a set of 8 - 10 clubs that constantly push for the play offs every season. the quality is there for all to see.

 

Did I not say that about the strikers on the other thread ? Good Div1 strikers do not normally produce the same amounts of goals in the league above, as like CCL Prem to Ryman and Southern leagues. This is simply because the defences in higher leagues are better organised, players are better and stronger so strikers are more tightly marked and less chances become available.

 

Now a proloific goalscorer is someone who is prolific at all his levels as he progresses in football.........every striker, even player will eventually know their level. I find that players who have committment, a good attitude, a desire to improve, listen to coaches and advice, who look after themselves in close season and out of football along with obvious ability go further.

 

I've been told that when they were younger, Arsenal's Kieran Gibbs was not as good as Jaydon (Guildford City) but Kieran had the above where apparently Jayden didn't, he couldn't be bothered, thats why Kieran is at Arsenal and playing 1st team where Jaydon is playing Guildford City 1st team........ with his mates ? What a waste.......!

 

This is a fine example of what can be achieved if players put their mind to it.

 

nb: I stress this is what I have been told, so if it is inaccurate I apologise.

 

Without being disrespectful, my experience informs me that the CCL is a glorified Sunday morning (play with my mates) league. In my opinion, players (not all) tend not to take their football and training seriously, and certainly are not professional enough...... only my opinion, but if players look at themselves honestly, they may see some truth in my comments..........

Edited October 26, 2011 by NICE GUY

[mattwefc]

apologies i stand corrected, i was looking at the wrong league table. the point i was trying to make was that there seems to be a larger set of teams with the capability to pull away from the pck throughout the season in the s+w1 compared to in the ccl. i was only making comparisons with the s+w although from what i remember of the isthmian league i would say the difference between the ccl and that is a lot smaller than the difference between the ccl and the s+w. there are certainly stand out teams in almost every league, ie bognor like u said, and then totten in the last few seasons (now top of the southern premier) in the s+w and truro before them.

 

the key as highlighted is general fitness, strength and ability in the higher league, which is to be expected.

[Smudge]

Nice Guy/Mattwefc how disrespetful to C.C.L. Clubs and players.So by Nice Guys chronology,A.F.C Windsor should be pissing this Sunday Morning League,but lets look at who has beat them this year,Mole Valley,Dorking,drew with Croydon as well,hardly big hitters.Windsor and Eton went bankrupt like so many others have done before them,start up again with a squad of players that have all played higher,are they 10 points clear at the Top,NO,reason to many has beens in their squad,who are just robbing them blind.

 

As for Matts comments,he names general fitness,strength,and ability in a higher League,but he forgets the most important ingredient that makes a promotion side,MONEY.be it through attracting good crowds Bognor,Totton,have that ingredient.But Windsor and Eton had these ingredients,yes it got them promotion but at what cost BANKRUPTCY,so how can he preach to us about the standard of our beloved C.C.L.,you are lucky to be playing at this level at all.

 

NICE GUY,after nearly 2 years of posting on here,no wonder you do not want anyone to know who you are.You forgot your L.O.L.

[Rother]

Maybe I've misunderstood but I really don't see it is logical to suggest that because there are normally 1 or 2 teams who pull away from the rest in Southern S&W that is any kind of indication that the rest are miles better than CCL. Quite the opposite I'd have thought.

 

And Smudge, how dare you talk about others being disrespectful when you then accuse Windsor's players of robbing the club blind. Empty bs rhetoric which is about all I ever see against your name. Contrary to what you'd love to believe the senior players are not being paid much and they are simply not as good or fast as they once were but they always put in maximum effort.

 

The ones who have come in, not got up to the level of fitness required by the management and / or not performed are not at Windsor now. Do you really think Keith Scott would allow players to take the p1ss?