When is offside not offside.

[jertzee]

OK, before I ask the question let me just say the game in question was a girls U-14 game in the Morden Little League (Which isn't really a league as there is no league table, just a tournament at the end of the season).

 

I was running the line for the team that my daughter plays in. The attacking side were constantly offside and after, about the fifth decision a qualified referee standing on the side watching the game told me that most of my decisions were wrong. (I think he may have been helping the young lady who was the referee as he spoke to her after the final whistle).

 

He told me that my decisions were wrong because no player from the attacking side had touched the ball, and they weren't "offside" until they played the ball.

 

 

I agreed that on one occassion he was right (there were two players offside and neither touched the ball) but I think I m right as there is part of the law that states the attacking player in an offside position does NOT have to touch the ball if he is the only player that could possibly have touched the ball (i.e. only one attacking player the ball could been aimed at).

 

When I spoke to the referee after the game she agreed with the old guy, not me.

 

Anyone else any thoughts on the right decisions??

[Krooner]

PIG

 

P lay the ball

I nterfering with play

G aining an advantage

 

Unless this has changed and not too sure it has. I think they were wrong. And I will offer this. If a striker is offside but doesnt play the ball but is in the way of the defender running back surely he is ?

[Gsy_Spurs]

Take a look at FIFAs laws of the game

 

http://ar.fifa.com/m...me_2011_12e.pdf

 

Page 33 Law 11. I think you are right.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Gsy_Spurs

[MiddleMan]

Like a number of issues around the Laws, the question is one of interpretation. If you read Law 11, you could well argue that in every case of an attacker being in an offside position, anywhere close to the ball, he/she should be penalised for 'attempting to gain an advantage'. The practise in senior football has developed whereby an Assistant Referee is directed not to indicate an offside until/unless the player in question actually plays the ball. Whilst you can understand the thinking, the 'late flag' does have a downside in that it really does wind up players & spectators, who often do not have an understanding of the situation. At local/youth level, where club assistants are being used, the usual practise is to indicate for offside far earlier. You would normally expect a flag once the attacker moves towards the ball.

The bottom line is that referees must make it clear to assistants (both neutral & club) on just when an offside flag should be raised.

[jertzee]

Thanks - I think middleman has it spot on in that most people are ignorant of the offside law and when you flag a few seconds after they take that as the moment they believe you are referring to and therefore think you have made the wroong decision.

I partly raised the flag early because I wanted everyone to see the player was in an offside position (and seeking to gain an advantage).

 

I think Page 105, example 4 (from the FIFA Laws pdf above) was the case in point for virtually everyone of my decisions, apart from where two players were pushing up, one offside and one onside, when the law states that you have to wait for the touch in case the player onside gets it first.

[Gluck_ab]

The technique alluded to by Middleman (MM) in his post is that of 'wait and see' and neutral ARs are encouraged and advised to employ this with regards to offsides. It used to be referred to as a 'late' flag but that implied the AR had missed something so it's more commonly referred to now as a 'delayed' flag, the delay (in reality, a pause) being while the AR waits to see if a / the player has become active and therefore, in his opinion, offside.

 

Similarly, to assist the 'wait and see' technique, ARs (running the LB / RW side of the pitch) would have their flag in their left hand as they faced the field and, in doing so, the temptation to flag early, and potentially incorrectly, for an offside is reduced as the time taken to transfer the flag from left hand to right hand is, in effect, the 'waiting and seeing' time.

 

As MM states the referee will brief his ARs on offsides and where neutral ARs are used the brief is usually along the lines of 'offsides are all yours unless you're incorrect in law, employ the 'wait and see' technique and the only time I want a quick flag is if there's chance of a potential collision between an attacker and the goalie.'

 

It's worth noting too that it is not an offence for an attacking player to be standing in an offside position. It's only when he becomes active should he be penalised. Too often players, officials and spectators call for offside before a player has actually become active and offside, i.e. if the attempted through ball has been cut out by a defender the AR will not need to raise his flag as it never reached its intended target and so there is no offside.

[Don't Blame Me]

I remember Brian Clough saying that if any of his players were not interfering with play then they shouldn't be on the pitch at all!

[jertzee]

The problem is that for every decision I gave the girl was offside because she was tring to gain an advantage.

 

On one occassion I flagged as the ball was kicked forward but it didn't reach her as the defender intercepted - as it was the ref should have overruled and waved play on but she gave a free kick after seeing my flag. (Making it almost certain that the old man told her the player should be receiving the ball for her to be offside, after the game had finished, and incorrectly).

 

Either way I have printed off page 105 and will show it to him next Saturday while reminding him it's not the f***ing World Cup final.. ..

Edited October 17, 2011 by jertzee

[Don't Blame Me]

This thread has reminded me of Molesey's first goal against Windsor earlier this season. A Molesey free kick was played into the Windsor penalty area where a Molesey player in an offside position moved to wards the ball. He left it but his movement distracted our keeper and the ball nestled in the bottom corner. It was from this point onwards that the referee lost control of the game. IIRC, the AR raised his flag then lowered it. Of all the laws, the offside one has to be the most contentious.

[Gluck_ab]

I think that particular element of the offside law - interfering with an opponent - is potentially the most problematic. As the guidance in the Laws states it 'means preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision or movements by making a gesture or movement which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or distracts an opponent.'

 

Krooner's way of remembering the criteria help but the fact of these and how they are applied is not widely enough known. Certainly misinterpretation is often taken incorrectly as fact although some of the other laws of the game are more obvious and easy to understand, and explain, in a simplistic way that avoids this.

[jertzee]

To me, it is surely the spirit of the law that should be considered, especially at junior levels.

 

When a 12 yo girl is 5 yards offside it's not because Justin Bieber has strayed onto the pitches down Tudor Drive, it's because she wants to score a goal and is seeking to gain an advantage, whether she touches the bloody ball or not!

[streetcar named despair]

This is a fascinating topic - but it seems to me, as a mere observer, that the late flag is seriously out of fashion at the moment. Any number of offsides are being given when the ball has been cleared by the centre backs. The forward has made his run towards where he hopes the ball will go - and would surely be offside if he played the ball - but the ball never gets past the last man. I'm not concerned by this, having to make a desperate clearance to stop a man who is offside getting the ball is no advantage to the defending side, but it seems to run contrary to the guidelines.

 

In any case, the touch the ball aspect hasn't been a factor in practice for years. Common sense seemed to prevail when attackers started moving forward from an offside position then shepharding the ball and making defenders tackle/foul/conceed throw ins etc.

[Footy Mad]

I believe that if an attacker in an offside position has an influence over how a defender has to clear the ball then he should be given offside.

I think it was stated earlier that if the player in an offside position is the only attacking player who is attempting to play the ball then there is no need to wait for him to play it.

[Terrence Collina]

I believe that if an attacker in an offside position has an influence over how a defender has to clear the ball then he should be given offside.

I think it was stated earlier that if the player in an offside position is the only attacking player who is attempting to play the ball then there is no need to wait for him to play it.

 

Spot on, the defender has to try and clear the ball as he can't tell whether the attacker is offside or not, fluffs his clearance as it was a last ditch clearance, ball falls kindly to attackers team mate and they go on and score. Not right.

[catweazle]

Always bear one thing in mind. Offside is a position, NOT an offence!

[Terrence Collina]

Always bear one thing in mind. Offside is a position, NOT an offence!

 

and has been since the year dot. Doesn't mean if the striker is in on offside postition and not going for the ball he is not putting the defender off.

[Mewcenary]

I've come to this thread too late: All the other great officials on this forum have already commented! :-(

[Big J R]

I've come to this thread too late: All the other great officials on this forum have already commented! :-(

 

 

Hmmmmm !! Don't think I dare comment, Mewc !