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RIOTS!!

Redrup No2

By Redrup No2
in Combined Counties Forum

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Jurg78 Newbie

Jurg78

Posted
Posted

Our shop in Kensington has been advised by the police that they are expecting trouble on Kensington High St (near the tube) tonight and the police will look to move any rioters towards Olyimpia end (which is where our shop is)!!

 

 

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Oi Oi Saveloy Newbie

Oi Oi Saveloy

Posted
Posted

o come on bomaya its not funny at all the joke wasn't about how funny it is where being targeted all i was saying is the brand they have targeted cheap food stores i was questioning there brains

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Gluck_ab Newbie

Gluck_ab

Posted
Posted

While alot of people say put the scum on the front line,I for one am proud of our army,why would we want people fighting for our country who blatantly hate the place??

 

 

Agreed - the Armed Forces are certainly not the place for the rioters and nor is the return of national service as a means to 'sort them out' - far better a volunteer than a pressed man and I certainly wouldn't want any of them wearing uniform.

 

I hear your comments Gluck, but sorry I have to disagree on this one. I know many a young lad who said they could never be changed from being a disgruntled yob. They learn discipline and respect which none of these scumbags have. Yes, they will try to beat the system, but will fail no matter how hard they try. You would be surpised how much these yobs change after National Service, they actually come out decent young men and have a real realism about life in general. I know of many, many cases Gluck trust me !

 

This country has become an easy touch with this Human Rights thing, easy immigration, easy NHS possibilities.............so are you surprised we have this problem ! As a country we need to start being tougher like we were in the days gone by, when you could leave your front door open without any fear.....remember !

 

 

NG

 

National Service is not the answer to this problem - the Army (and Navy and RAF) now is a very different organisation to the one when national service existed. The issues that need addressing now are social, cultural, educational, historical, etc, and there are other means and methods to address those. Forcing individuals into a system which is not designed to meet this purpose would be counter-productive and the resources (in terms of personnel, finance and materiel) dedicated to training recruits are better served on those who actually want to be there and to make something of themselves as a stepping stone to other careers or as long-term career in HM Forces.

 

Gluck

By the time ones sorts out the social, cultural, educational and historical we wont have any towns left, do you honestly think these yobs care about these !

 

Please you tell me how you think you could change these mindless individuals ? What by going to class and telling them the wrongs and rights, it won't work entirely, they will nod their head and say yes but it won't make a blind bit of difference. These are horrible thugs and need to be dealt harshly and brought down to earth, no need to be nicey, nicey 'cos they will only abuse the effort everyone puts in to make them change. Yes, you may get the odd few, hence films like LEAN ON ME, STAND & DELIVER but then you have the film 187. COACH CARTER may I add was disciplined in making individuals change.

 

To be honest, parents must take some responsibility I'm sorry to say.

 

National Service was not counter productive, lets look at figures for murder, robbery, theft...........etc. compared to now !

 

At the end of the day, you have your way of sorting these thugs out which will be in the enviroment where they can still cause trouble.

 

National Service they are away from civil activity in their barrocks to learn a lesson, then us folks can feel safer in our society.

 

Another way is do what the Arabs do. Those caught throwing petrol bombs, stones and thieving....... simple cut of their hand, that would put a stop to this problem and make them think again.............!

 

 

NG

 

I never said National Service (NS) was not counter-productive, just that it would be now as the resources needed to make it work are better dedicated to training those who actually want to be in the Armed Forces and not those who are forced there as a means of attitude adjustment. Additionally, the demand on the Armed Forces is currently in the direction of operations in Afghanistan (Op Herrick 8) and Libya (Op Ellamy) be that in theatre, preparing to go there (again) or taking leave, undertaking training and career courses. I'll use an example to demonstrate that - units returned from Op Herrick 8 in mid-late September 2008, commenced pre-deployment training in spring / summer 2009 for the next operational tour and deployed on Op Herrick 13 in late September-early October 2010, returning in late March-early April 2011. During that time, factor in leave, courses, and many exercises to test and confirm readiness to deploy etc. Put simply there aren't the resources to meet NS, nor the will or inclination from those in HM Forces to deliver it.

 

The type of remedial action your words lend themselves to is one of locking up individuals as a form of punishment - and not providing service to their country in the way that NS aimed to - and appears more akin to prison. That is a separate matter.

 

As I said in my original post there are different issues now from the time when NS was in place and making direct comparisons between crime rates and types then and now without reflecting these will give a distorted (or rose-tinted) view that is neither useful or beneficial to those trying to address the root causes of the issues of which, in these riots, you're seeing the effects.

 

I'm aware too of how summary justice is applied in some Middle Eastern countries having worked in a number of them.

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bomaya Newbie

bomaya

Posted
Posted

o come on bomaya its not funny at all the joke wasn't about how funny it is where being targeted all i was saying is the brand they have targeted cheap food stores i was questioning there brains

 

Sorry Jack but people were making the same jokes last night about the Primark was that trashed. I guess this is all a bit too close to home and real for me to make a joke about. I'm not normally fussed about dodgy jokes but I just have zero sense of humour about this terrible situation.

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NICE GUY Newbie

NICE GUY

Posted
Posted

While alot of people say put the scum on the front line,I for one am proud of our army,why would we want people fighting for our country who blatantly hate the place??

 

 

Agreed - the Armed Forces are certainly not the place for the rioters and nor is the return of national service as a means to 'sort them out' - far better a volunteer than a pressed man and I certainly wouldn't want any of them wearing uniform.

 

I hear your comments Gluck, but sorry I have to disagree on this one. I know many a young lad who said they could never be changed from being a disgruntled yob. They learn discipline and respect which none of these scumbags have. Yes, they will try to beat the system, but will fail no matter how hard they try. You would be surpised how much these yobs change after National Service, they actually come out decent young men and have a real realism about life in general. I know of many, many cases Gluck trust me !

 

This country has become an easy touch with this Human Rights thing, easy immigration, easy NHS possibilities.............so are you surprised we have this problem ! As a country we need to start being tougher like we were in the days gone by, when you could leave your front door open without any fear.....remember !

 

 

NG

 

National Service is not the answer to this problem - the Army (and Navy and RAF) now is a very different organisation to the one when national service existed. The issues that need addressing now are social, cultural, educational, historical, etc, and there are other means and methods to address those. Forcing individuals into a system which is not designed to meet this purpose would be counter-productive and the resources (in terms of personnel, finance and materiel) dedicated to training recruits are better served on those who actually want to be there and to make something of themselves as a stepping stone to other careers or as long-term career in HM Forces.

 

Gluck

By the time ones sorts out the social, cultural, educational and historical we wont have any towns left, do you honestly think these yobs care about these !

 

Please you tell me how you think you could change these mindless individuals ? What by going to class and telling them the wrongs and rights, it won't work entirely, they will nod their head and say yes but it won't make a blind bit of difference. These are horrible thugs and need to be dealt harshly and brought down to earth, no need to be nicey, nicey 'cos they will only abuse the effort everyone puts in to make them change. Yes, you may get the odd few, hence films like LEAN ON ME, STAND & DELIVER but then you have the film 187. COACH CARTER may I add was disciplined in making individuals change.

 

To be honest, parents must take some responsibility I'm sorry to say.

 

National Service was not counter productive, lets look at figures for murder, robbery, theft...........etc. compared to now !

 

At the end of the day, you have your way of sorting these thugs out which will be in the enviroment where they can still cause trouble.

 

National Service they are away from civil activity in their barrocks to learn a lesson, then us folks can feel safer in our society.

 

Another way is do what the Arabs do. Those caught throwing petrol bombs, stones and thieving....... simple cut of their hand, that would put a stop to this problem and make them think again.............!

 

 

NG

 

I never said National Service (NS) was not counter-productive, just that it would be now as the resources needed to make it work are better dedicated to training those who actually want to be in the Armed Forces and not those who are forced there as a means of attitude adjustment. Additionally, the demand on the Armed Forces is currently in the direction of operations in Afghanistan (Op Herrick 8) and Libya (Op Ellamy) be that in theatre, preparing to go there (again) or taking leave, undertaking training and career courses. I'll use an example to demonstrate that - units returned from Op Herrick 8 in mid-late September 2008, commenced pre-deployment training in spring / summer 2009 for the next operational tour and deployed on Op Herrick 13 in late September-early October 2010, returning in late March-early April 2011. During that time, factor in leave, courses, and many exercises to test and confirm readiness to deploy etc. Put simply there aren't the resources to meet NS, nor the will or inclination from those in HM Forces to deliver it.

 

The type of remedial action your words lend themselves to is one of locking up individuals as a form of punishment - and not providing service to their country in the way that NS aimed to - and appears more akin to prison. That is a separate matter.

 

As I said in my original post there are different issues now from the time when NS was in place and making direct comparisons between crime rates and types then and now without reflecting these will give a distorted (or rose-tinted) view that is neither useful or beneficial to those trying to address the root causes of the issues of which, in these riots, you're seeing the effects.

 

I'm aware too of how summary justice is applied in some Middle Eastern countries having worked in a number of them.

 

WHAT !......Blimey Gluck, you're in the forces aren't you....or used to be. So whats the immediate remedy to stop this riot and prevent it from happening again ?

 

I've seen footage where the police are standing not being able to touch these thugs whilst being abused and intimidated...........absolutely disgusting...... if that was Italy, France water cannons & plastic bullets would be out to deter thugs without question, the poice there do not muck about !

 

Getting to the root of the problem/riots will take time, so whilst we wait these shops, stores, houses are completely damaged and burnt down ? I have just listened to an interview saying that these riots are due to frustration that nothing is being done for the youth society and depravation ! I think this is a time of ease for an excuse to loot the shops and cause public damage to hurt civilians........depravation ?

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