CCL promotion / relegation

[VPCTFC]

It's Sunday so I've got my anorak on and looking into promotion & relegation.

 

Assuming one of Guildford or Chertsey get promoted there'll be two spaces in the Prem. At the moment no-one in the relegation places at step 4 looks CCL bound. Horsham YMCA are down and Chatham look most likely to join them from the Ryman League. In the Zamaretto League Northwood & Beaconsfield are in the relegation places. I can't see either of them joining us.

 

In division 1 the top 3 at the moment all look likely to come up but, if Worcester Park finish up there then there'll only be two promoted.

I can't see any other step 5 clubs moving across to the Premier from other leagues so, in my opinion, if WP get in the top three there'll be no relegation from the Premier this season.

 

On the other hand, Corinthian-Casuals, Whyteleafe, AFC Hayes and North Greenford aren't safe yet. Three of those would almost certainly come into the CCL, NGU may go elsewhere.

 

There are always surprises when it come to promotion and relegation though but just thought I'd give Bookham, Croydon & Dorking some (false?) hope.

[Big J R]

I don't think anything will become definite until sometime in May !

[Krooner]

Sorry to say this but I do hope teams are relegated from the Prem becuase teams that keep getting reprieved do not deserve it.

 

 

[Big J R]

I quite agree with you Kroons. The problem seems to be teams that want to enter/cross over.

 

We still don't know for sure howm many/up down ! Rediculous state of affairs.

[SaoPaulo]

IMO due to how tight the top 4 in Div 1 are; if worcester park finish in the top 3 (more than likely) then 4th place should be considered for promotion. especially considering the other 3 clubs in the top 4 have worked so hard on their ground grading. This would then allow for a (deserved) relegation from the prem. Maybe even a playoff between the bottom Prem club and 4th placed div 1? maybe something to consider for future as year on year worcester park finish top 3 but are unable to progress.

[The KnapMeister]

IMO due to how tight the top 4 in Div 1 are; if worcester park finish in the top 3 (more than likely) then 4th place should be considered for promotion. especially considering the other 3 clubs in the top 4 have worked so hard on their ground grading. This would then allow for a (deserved) relegation from the prem. Maybe even a playoff between the bottom Prem club and 4th placed div 1? maybe something to consider for future as year on year worcester park finish top 3 but are unable to progress.

 

I think we have covered this point at some length, but if you don't finish in the top 3 you will NOT get promoted. The issue is to get all clubs in Div 1 to have lights (easy for me to say now!), once that is the case, then no issues!!

[NICE GUY]

IMO due to how tight the top 4 in Div 1 are; if worcester park finish in the top 3 (more than likely) then 4th place should be considered for promotion. especially considering the other 3 clubs in the top 4 have worked so hard on their ground grading. This would then allow for a (deserved) relegation from the prem. Maybe even a playoff between the bottom Prem club and 4th placed div 1? maybe something to consider for future as year on year worcester park finish top 3 but are unable to progress.

 

TO BE HONEST BETTA THE OBJECT IS TO GO ONE BETTER THAN WORCESETER PARK THEN THERE WILL NOT BE AN ISSUE, BUT DO SYMPATHISE FOR THE TEAMS WHO HAVE WORKED HARD TO GET THEIR GROUND GRADING ONLY TO FAIL BECUASE A TEAM WHO DOESN'T HAVE THE GRADING FAILS THEM.

 

PERHAPS WORCESTER PARK SHOULD GROUNDSHARE ?..............SORRY KROOONTZZZ !

Edited April 12, 2011 by NICE GUY

[SaoPaulo]

im relatively new to the forum so may have missed previous discussions explaining the point, so aplogies if i am going over old ground. but if as u have said - lights are the issue, then surely we should be rewarding clubs that have made the requirements. By allowing worcester park to claim a promotion place which they cannot fulfill, are the league not dis-heartening clubs who have worked so hard to get the required work done (such as yourselves) and rewarding a team that has not made the grading? It could after all go down to Worcester Park claiming 3rd place on goal difference over the team that finish 4th, a massive blow to any side that have been intent on gaining promotion this year - and possibly lead to losing players or funding.

 

Also with Guernseys dream team set to join the league next season, it seems a lot of people believe there will only be 2 promotion places up for grabs alongside them next term anyway! With Worcester park no doubt challenging for another one.. is this not slightly unfair on other CCL div 1 clubs?!

 

I understand at the moment this is all 'ifs,buts and maybes'... just seems an injustice to me.

 

 

[SaoPaulo]

IMO due to how tight the top 4 in Div 1 are; if worcester park finish in the top 3 (more than likely) then 4th place should be considered for promotion. especially considering the other 3 clubs in the top 4 have worked so hard on their ground grading. This would then allow for a (deserved) relegation from the prem. Maybe even a playoff between the bottom Prem club and 4th placed div 1? maybe something to consider for future as year on year worcester park finish top 3 but are unable to progress.

 

TO BE HONEST BETTA THE OBJECT IS TO GO ONE BETTER THAN WORCESETER PARK THEN THERE WILL NOT BE AN ISSUE, BUT DO SYMPATHISE FOR THE TEAMS WHO HAVE WORKED HARD TO GET THEIR GROUND GRADING ONLY TO FAIL BECUASE A TEAM WHO DOESN'T HAVE THE GRADING FAILS THEM.

 

PERHAPS WORCESTER PARK SHOULD GROUNDSHARE ?..............SORRY KROOONTZZZ !

 

 

I do agree NG, at the end of the day other teams should treat the situation like WP HAVE got the facilities to go up, and make sure they finish above them. Its just frustrating that they havent! Whats worse is they are a really good side who would do well in the prem.

[Jurg78]

The one way you can really sort it out, is if the FA/League uphold the ground grading requirements they set at each level (they don't appear to esp when you visit other leagues in the FA Cup/Vase).

 

Unfortunately at CCL Div 1 (senior standard), if you don't have lights then you shouldn't be in the league (unless you have the approval for them to be installed in a set period of time). If it means reducing No's for a season or 2 then so be it.

 

Yes you might loose a very good side in WP and others (Eversley spring to mind, but I think they may well be getting lights??), but being a good side doesn't mean you should get in the way of others progressing.

 

When I first started out in Senior football at Eton Wick FC, they were a CCL side (not sure how good they were in the league, but remember they were county champions 3 years on the bounce in the mid 90's so were certainly a successful and very good side), but they were expelled from the league over ground issues like not being able to get permission for lights.

[Green_Fingers]

 

The Management Committee feels that all clubs in Div 1 should now be reaching the required standards as laid down by the FA and intends to propose at the AGM that all clubs in Division One must meet the full requirements of Grade G, including floodlights, in time for the 2013-2014 season. In other words clubs would have two more seasons in which to fully comply, failing which they would be demoted. To avoid stagnation, new clubs, who meet the CCL's current reduced entry criteria would still be allowed in, but would then have two seasons from the date of entry in which to achieve lights and all other requirements. As always, everything is subject to FA approval.

 

Farnborough North End will have until 31 May in which to enter into an acceptable ground share or, of course, find their own acceptable ground, if they wish to continue in the League next season. The present "roaming" arrangement is only up to the end of the present season.

 

Clubs seeking promotion from Div 1 to the Premier (i.e. the top three) have until 31 March to reach the requirements of Grade G, and then a further 12 months in which to reach Grade F. The mechanics of promotion and relegation are dictated by the FA and there is no provision at present for play-offs and the like.

 

Jurgs - Whitelaw has already stated that Div 1 Clubs will have two more seasons in which to fully comply, failing which they would be demoted. So the problem is no longer long term.

[Jurg78]

Ah thanks, I thought it would have been at some point in the past.

 

As long as they are true to their word then!!

[SaoPaulo]

Thanks GF, that's a good, informative post from whitelaw. Personally think thats a bit too lenient but guess it's just tough luck whinging about WP until then!

[sparky100]

It's Sunday so I've got my anorak on and looking into promotion & relegation.

 

Assuming one of Guildford or Chertsey get promoted there'll be two spaces in the Prem. At the moment no-one in the relegation places at step 4 looks CCL bound. Horsham YMCA are down and Chatham look most likely to join them from the Ryman League. In the Zamaretto League Northwood & Beaconsfield are in the relegation places. I can't see either of them joining us.

 

In division 1 the top 3 at the moment all look likely to come up but, if Worcester Park finish up there then there'll only be two promoted.

I can't see any other step 5 clubs moving across to the Premier from other leagues so, in my opinion, if WP get in the top three there'll be no relegation from the Premier this season.

 

On the other hand, Corinthian-Casuals, Whyteleafe, AFC Hayes and North Greenford aren't safe yet. Three of those would almost certainly come into the CCL, NGU may go elsewhere.

 

There are always surprises when it come to promotion and relegation though but just thought I'd give Bookham, Croydon & Dorking some (false?) hope.

 

The Sussex County League will have to change their rules to allow Horsham YMCA back into their league as they do not allow groundsharing and Horsham YMCA have Horsham groundsharing with them therefore they might have to come to the CCL

Edited April 12, 2011 by sparky100

[Smudge]

Cannot see a problem with Horsham Y.M.C.A. the Sussex League changed the Rules in the first place to get them promoted.Easier solution would be for Y.M.C.A. to get rid of their Groundsharers Horsham,who are without their own Ground,problem solved.

[Green_Fingers]

Cannot see a problem with Horsham Y.M.C.A. the Sussex League changed the Rules in the first place to get them promoted.Easier solution would be for Y.M.C.A. to get rid of their Groundsharers Horsham,who are without their own Ground,problem solved.

 

Not sure that's correct Smudge. Didn't YMCA get promoted (from 3rd place I might add) which conveniently allowed Horsham FC to groundshare with them? Had YMCA not been promoted the Sussex League probably wouldn't have allowed the groundshare. Would think now that the FA will force the issue by directing YMCA to the Sussex League - Aren't Leagues obliged to do what the FA direct them to do ?

Edited April 13, 2011 by Green_Fingers

[Smudge]

Yeah when it suits the F.A .So finishing 3rd in the Sussex League is a promotion place,but finishing 2nd in the Combined Counties gaurantees you nothing.Thought the F.A. set rules that have to be followed by all Leagues,until of course it does not suit them,DEMOCRACY,RESPECT.The 2 clubs who finished above them did not have the Ground Grading,and Horsham had no ground,so lets promote Y.M.C.A. so Horsham have a groundshare.So Guernsey is a done deal,because the Clubs will not vote against the F.A.s wishes now,it's called Dictatorship.

[Green_Fingers]

Yeah when it suits the F.A .So finishing 3rd in the Sussex League is a promotion place,but finishing 2nd in the Combined Counties gaurantees you nothing.Thought the F.A. set rules that have to be followed by all Leagues,until of course it does not suit them,DEMOCRACY,RESPECT.The 2 clubs who finished above them did not have the Ground Grading,and Horsham had no ground,so lets promote Y.M.C.A. so Horsham have a groundshare.So Guernsey is a done deal,because the Clubs will not vote against the F.A.s wishes now,it's called Dictatorship.

 

Finishing 1st guarantees you nothing either - there's only 12 places available with 14 teams chasing

[manager50]

Yeah when it suits the F.A .So finishing 3rd in the Sussex League is a promotion place,but finishing 2nd in the Combined Counties gaurantees you nothing.Thought the F.A. set rules that have to be followed by all Leagues,until of course it does not suit them,DEMOCRACY,RESPECT.The 2 clubs who finished above them did not have the Ground Grading,and Horsham had no ground,so lets promote Y.M.C.A. so Horsham have a groundshare.So Guernsey is a done deal,because the Clubs will not vote against the F.A.s wishes now,it's called Dictatorship. (quote Smudge)

 

Agree on the YMCA thing, as it did look like the Ryman wanted Horsham to retain their status and having YMCA in the Sussex League meant that they had the final say about groundsharing. The only way to bypass that was to somehow elevate YMCA to the Ryman, who were happy to accept the deal, as it reprieved Horsham. To this day it still rankles with many people. I would imagine that the fact YMCA are again to be relegated will still mean the groundshare can stand, as it will have been in place prior to the change in circumstances.

 

Wrong on Guernsey - the clubs attended a meeting - apart from 1. A unanimous vote (75%) was required to move this on and was achieved on the night. Had the clubs voted "no" it would not have proceeded. We are led to believe that this will still be subject to ratification at the AGM so is still not a done deal. If they get in, it will be down to the member clubs. You may have a point that the clubs are not keen to vote against the FA, but that is their choice and the process is a democratic one, and no pressure was put on the clubs that evening.

[VPCTFC]

 

The Sussex County League will have to change their rules to allow Horsham YMCA back into their league as they do not allow groundsharing and Horsham YMCA have Horsham groundsharing with them therefore they might have to come to the CCL

 

Every league in the pyramid has the same standard set of rules now. Ground sharing is allowed as long as clubs don't do it to gain promotion or avoid relegation. That's open to interpretation though.

 

It is possible for leagues to get the rules changed but they have to ask the FA now. The Sussex League doesn't publish the rules online and it's possible they have asked the FA and had it agreed that no groundsharing can stay as a rule but I doubt the FA would allow it to happen in just one league.