SURREY PREMIER CUP FINAL

[Gluck_ab]

Special Training?To be an assessor,are there not one set of rules?

 

Assessors are trained to assess in accordance with FA instructions and guidance on this subject. There are 7 categories that they mark - application of law, match control, positioning and work rate, alertness and awareness (including management of stoppages), communication, teamwork and advantage. Each of these are marked out of 5 but also given a weighting of 1 to 5 to reflect their significance and importance in a game. For example, application of law and match control are each weighted 5 as opposed to advantage which is weighted 2. That means those two former elements contribute a potential maximum of 50 marks (5 x 5 = 25 and 5 x 5 = 25) whilst the latter element contibutes a potential maximum of 10 marks. The marks for all categories are totalled up to give a score out of 100. From that score you can see where your performance fits in the marking scheme, i.e. for the CCL a mark of 70-73 is the expected mark. Additionally, at every refereeing level the key performance indicators within the 7 categories increase to reflect the level expected of the referee and the standard at which he is refereeing.

 

The marks that clubs submit after the game on a referee are based on broader bandings related to decision-making, match control, etc.

 

 

 

[Smudge]

Setting out his stall:- Example the young A.F.C. player came on as a sub,not up to the pace of the game,his first challenge he mistimes slightly,no malice or intent a Yellow,he later does a bad tackle rightly Yellow,so red card shown or was it a yellow then a Red.Another incident awards free kick to A.F.C. the player takes it quickly,kicks it straight at South Park player who is standing at near a right angle to him 3 yds away,no chance of getting out of way,Yellow Card.Even now having watched T.R.S.Video not sure if the South Park player handled the ball,prior to him giving a Penalty,what I did learn though,if you shouted loud enough at him it helped your cause.Suggest Referees if their doing nothing tonight should watch David Crick's performance tonight if the want to improve their game,BEST REFEREE I HAVE SEEN IN C.C.L.LOOK OUT FOR HIS GREEN SHIRT.

[NICE GUY]

Special Training?To be an assessor,are there not one set of rules?

 

Assessors are trained to assess in accordance with FA instructions and guidance on this subject. There are 7 categories that they mark - application of law, match control, positioning and work rate, alertness and awareness (including management of stoppages), communication, teamwork and advantage. Each of these are marked out of 5 but also given a weighting of 1 to 5 to reflect their significance and importance in a game. For example, application of law and match control are each weighted 5 as opposed to advantage which is weighted 2. That means those two former elements contribute a potential maximum of 50 marks (5 x 5 = 25 and 5 x 5 = 25) whilst the latter element contibutes a potential maximum of 10 marks. The marks for all categories are totalled up to give a score out of 100. From that score you can see where your performance fits in the marking scheme, i.e. for the CCL a mark of 70-73 is the expected mark. Additionally, at every refereeing level the key performance indicators within the 7 categories increase to reflect the level expected of the referee and the standard at which he is refereeing.

 

The marks that clubs submit after the game on a referee are based on broader bandings related to decision-making, match control, etc.

 

 

 

 

GLUCK YOU ARE AN ASSESSOR AREN'T YOU ?

[Gluck_ab]

Setting out his stall:- Example the young A.F.C. player came on as a sub,not up to the pace of the game,his first challenge he mistimes slightly,no malice or intent a Yellow,he later does a bad tackle rightly Yellow,so red card shown or was it a yellow then a Red.Another incident awards free kick to A.F.C. the player takes it quickly,kicks it straight at South Park player who is standing at near a right angle to him 3 yds away,no chance of getting out of way,Yellow Card.Even now having watched T.R.S.Video not sure if the South Park player handled the ball,prior to him giving a Penalty,what I did learn though,if you shouted loud enough at him it helped your cause.Suggest Referees if their doing nothing tonight should watch David Crick's performance tonight if the want to improve their game,BEST REFEREE I HAVE SEEN IN C.C.L.LOOK OUT FOR HIS GREEN SHIRT.

 

Difficult one on first example as he may have issued the first caution as the tempo of the game made it necessary. Remember there's nothing in the laws of the game - Law 12 Fouls and Misconduct - regarding malice or intent but there is about careless, reckless or with excessive force. Maybe he felt the tackle was reckless?

 

As for the second example, perhaps the referee told the SP player to get out of the way but he didn't? And had already told him that previously yet he did it again?

 

I'll watch the video at home this evening but remember the referee only has one view of it and in real time. He makes his decision accordingly.

 

David Crick is an excellent referee but has a reputation too for being a stickler for the laws!

[Smudge]

Gluck,so a Referee who plays more advantage is doing himself no favours.That would explain why they whistle,at the slightest contact,more points?

[Gluck_ab]

Special Training?To be an assessor,are there not one set of rules?

 

Assessors are trained to assess in accordance with FA instructions and guidance on this subject. There are 7 categories that they mark - application of law, match control, positioning and work rate, alertness and awareness (including management of stoppages), communication, teamwork and advantage. Each of these are marked out of 5 but also given a weighting of 1 to 5 to reflect their significance and importance in a game. For example, application of law and match control are each weighted 5 as opposed to advantage which is weighted 2. That means those two former elements contribute a potential maximum of 50 marks (5 x 5 = 25 and 5 x 5 = 25) whilst the latter element contibutes a potential maximum of 10 marks. The marks for all categories are totalled up to give a score out of 100. From that score you can see where your performance fits in the marking scheme, i.e. for the CCL a mark of 70-73 is the expected mark. Additionally, at every refereeing level the key performance indicators within the 7 categories increase to reflect the level expected of the referee and the standard at which he is refereeing.

 

The marks that clubs submit after the game on a referee are based on broader bandings related to decision-making, match control, etc.

 

 

 

 

GLUCK YOU ARE AN ASSESSOR AREN'T YOU ?

 

No, not at all. I turned to refereeing after playing as I couldn't see myself getting involved with a club in a non-playing position but wanted to remain in the game. I hope I can see both sides of the argument and try to be objective when watching games. Greater knowledge of the laws of the game - and not TV commentators providing the education - would make life easier for all involved.

[Smudge]

Setting out his stall:- Example the young A.F.C. player came on as a sub,not up to the pace of the game,his first challenge he mistimes slightly,no malice or intent a Yellow,he later does a bad tackle rightly Yellow,so red card shown or was it a yellow then a Red.Another incident awards free kick to A.F.C. the player takes it quickly,kicks it straight at South Park player who is standing at near a right angle to him 3 yds away,no chance of getting out of way,Yellow Card.Even now having watched T.R.S.Video not sure if the South Park player handled the ball,prior to him giving a Penalty,what I did learn though,if you shouted loud enough at him it helped your cause.Suggest Referees if their doing nothing tonight should watch David Crick's performance tonight if the want to improve their game,BEST REFEREE I HAVE SEEN IN C.C.L.LOOK OUT FOR HIS GREEN SHIRT.

 

Difficult one on first example as he may have issued the first caution as the tempo of the game made it necessary. Remember there's nothing in the laws of the game - Law 12 Fouls and Misconduct - regarding malice or intent but there is about careless, reckless or with excessive force. Maybe he felt the tackle was reckless?

 

As for the second example, perhaps the referee told the SP player to get out of the way but he didn't? And had already told him that previously yet he did it again?

 

I'll watch the video at home this evening but remember the referee only has one view of it and in real time. He makes his decision accordingly.

 

David Crick is an excellent referee but has a reputation too for being a stickler for the laws!

 

 

Gluck,thanks for your comments,very informative,keep posting you explain things well.Maybe you should become a Ref's Advisor.

[Gluck_ab]

Gluck,so a Referee who plays more advantage is doing himself no favours.That would explain why they whistle,at the slightest contact,more points?

 

No, that's not the case. In some games there'll be plenty of opportunities to use the advantage clause, in other games few opportunities. It's a case of using it as appropriate, i.e. is it a genuine advantge (and not just possession), the nature of the foul committed (is a caution or sending-off required), where on the pitch the foul took place (attacking or defensive opportunity), the ability of the players (to use that advantage), the tempo of the match (and how it will affect your match control). All those factors need to be considered.

[Smudge]

Like that bit 'ability of players to use advantage'no wonder they are so quick on the whistle at this level.They have made their minds up before the Game. lmao

 

 

[Weeble]

Without them there would be no games........Who is perfect.....................Stones and glass houses...................

[Smudge]

Setting out his stall:- Example the young A.F.C. player came on as a sub,not up to the pace of the game,his first challenge he mistimes slightly,no malice or intent a Yellow,he later does a bad tackle rightly Yellow,so red card shown or was it a yellow then a Red.Another incident awards free kick to A.F.C. the player takes it quickly,kicks it straight at South Park player who is standing at near a right angle to him 3 yds away,no chance of getting out of way,Yellow Card.Even now having watched T.R.S.Video not sure if the South Park player handled the ball,prior to him giving a Penalty,what I did learn though,if you shouted loud enough at him it helped your cause.Suggest Referees if their doing nothing tonight should watch David Crick's performance tonight if the want to improve their game,BEST REFEREE I HAVE SEEN IN C.C.L.LOOK OUT FOR HIS GREEN SHIRT.

 

Difficult one on first example as he may have issued the first caution as the tempo of the game made it necessary. Remember there's nothing in the laws of the game - Law 12 Fouls and Misconduct - regarding malice or intent but there is about careless, reckless or with excessive force. Maybe he felt the tackle was reckless?

 

As for the second example, perhaps the referee told the SP player to get out of the way but he didn't? And had already told him that previously yet he did it again?

 

I'll watch the video at home this evening but remember the referee only has one view of it and in real time. He makes his decision accordingly.

 

David Crick is an excellent referee but has a reputation too for being a stickler for the laws!

 

Gluck, did you get a chance to view the video?

[Gluck_ab]

Setting out his stall:- Example the young A.F.C. player came on as a sub,not up to the pace of the game,his first challenge he mistimes slightly,no malice or intent a Yellow,he later does a bad tackle rightly Yellow,so red card shown or was it a yellow then a Red.Another incident awards free kick to A.F.C. the player takes it quickly,kicks it straight at South Park player who is standing at near a right angle to him 3 yds away,no chance of getting out of way,Yellow Card.Even now having watched T.R.S.Video not sure if the South Park player handled the ball,prior to him giving a Penalty,what I did learn though,if you shouted loud enough at him it helped your cause.Suggest Referees if their doing nothing tonight should watch David Crick's performance tonight if the want to improve their game,BEST REFEREE I HAVE SEEN IN C.C.L.LOOK OUT FOR HIS GREEN SHIRT.

 

Difficult one on first example as he may have issued the first caution as the tempo of the game made it necessary. Remember there's nothing in the laws of the game - Law 12 Fouls and Misconduct - regarding malice or intent but there is about careless, reckless or with excessive force. Maybe he felt the tackle was reckless?

 

As for the second example, perhaps the referee told the SP player to get out of the way but he didn't? And had already told him that previously yet he did it again?

 

I'll watch the video at home this evening but remember the referee only has one view of it and in real time. He makes his decision accordingly.

 

David Crick is an excellent referee but has a reputation too for being a stickler for the laws!

 

Gluck, did you get a chance to view the video?

 

Just watched the video and saw 3 main incidents;

 

1. Late tackle by blue 16 on red player - in my opinion the caution was justified and as it was a 2nd yellow then the red follows thereafter.

 

2. DOGSO by handball by red player - despite watching it a number of times i can't clearly see whether it was deliberate handball or not. However, the referee obviously thought it was and was very positive in making that decision. From that you can infer that he clearly saw it as a deliberate handball that denied an obvious goal-scoring opportunity hence the red card and penalty.

 

3. Foul on attacking red player by keeper that a penalty was awarded for. From the angle of the video it's difficult to tell the direction the player was moving in relation to the goal - directly at goal or at , an angle away from goal. The referee did consult with his AR - and asked for his opinion - and decided it wasn't worthy of a red but a yellow. There is a blue player (no 2) who is running back towards the goal so the referee may also have thought he would cover that area if the red player got to the ball.

 

For Denying An Obvious Goal-Scoring Opportunity (DOGSO) a player has to be moving directly towards goal and the referee would consider if the attacking player had the ball under control, distance from goal where the foul was made, were there other defenders who could make a tackle or block the ball and is it a genuine goalscoring opportunity (would the attacker have had a genuine chance of scoring but for the intervention (by a foul) of the defending player).

 

From the video it's apparent that In each of those incidents the referee was close to play and could clearly see them occurring (and in the 3rd of them got a second opinion from the AR). As such, he was confident making his decisions - if he had any doubt or was unsure, he wouldn't have given them. Having not been at the game i can only comment on what the video shows - which is from a fixed position - as opposed to the referee being closer to each incident. I'm not aware of the nature of the other cautions issued and the other red card but if the reasoing behind them was applied equally to both sides then at least the referee was consistent, and the players should have worked that out!

[Smudge]

Gluck,a very detailed reply,and well explained I must say..I do see it in a different light though,having watched the video numerous times,as regards the Keepers Yellow,the defending player was behind the fouled attacking Player,and in no way was a covering player.By consulting his Linesman,in my opinion he used his get out of jail card,if as you say he was in a good position to see the incident why consult the linesman.As for the deliberate handball incident it did not occur as the video clearly shows,so where he got his decision from,I can only assume that a blue player shouted HANDBALL REF,and he fell for it.

[SurreysFinest]

Why ask for Glucks opinions Smudge, he put the points across well and all made sense of the decisions. Yet still the ref is at fault in your eyes.

[Smudge]

Surrey'sFinest,have you watched the video I ask,have you an opinion?The point in Forums is discussion,if we all agreed, that would be very boring.Refs in your eyes do not make errors,but video evidence proves otherwise,like the Younghammerwhitby case,The hole in the net at Warlingham,the Tonbridge Angels case of blatant handball on the line, .Now this game.COVERED BY T.R.S. EXCELLENT VIDEO'S.I was at the Premier Final,were you,saw the Ref's performance first hand.was not impressed.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Smudge