SURREY PREMIER CUP FINAL

[The Fan]

Well done South Park!

 

Re: ref being assessed... standard practice at all of the main Saturday and Sunday cup finals. We have certainly been instructed not to referee any differently just because it is (1) A cup final or (2) We are being assessed. If players don't want cards, don't perform any misconduct. Simples!

 

 

 

well thats all right then no pressure, im being assessed, mewey you dont think that officials act differntly, when there is a man in the stand with a clipboard, im sorry but you are way off the mark. i think the way forward, is not to tell the officials. then they really will see there everyday standards. thats not a negative,i think some of them let themselves down, under the pressure. bit like telling a player, that there are scouts watching them, some try harder, but stop doing what made them good in the 1st place.

[NICE GUY]

Well done South Park!

 

Re: ref being assessed... standard practice at all of the main Saturday and Sunday cup finals. We have certainly been instructed not to referee any differently just because it is (1) A cup final or (2) We are being assessed. If players don't want cards, don't perform any misconduct. Simples!

 

 

 

well thats all right then no pressure, im being assessed, mewey you dont think that officials act differntly, when there is a man in the stand with a clipboard, im sorry but you are way off the mark. i think the way forward, is not to tell the officials. then they really will see there everyday standards. thats not a negative,i think some of them let themselves down, under the pressure. bit like telling a player, that there are scouts watching them, some try harder, but stop doing what made them good in the 1st place.

 

HERE HERE TF ABSOLUTELY CORRECT IN BOTH POINTS ABOUT THE REF BEING ASSESSED AND ABOUT THE PLAYER KNOWING A SCOUT IS WATCHING THEM, YOU COULDN'T BE MORE RIGHT.

[Gluck_ab]

The Fan, NG

 

In my opinion in your last posts on referee assessing you both miss the point – appointments to finals (and other high-profile games, relegation / promotion deciders, etc) are made on the basis of a ref’s performance over the season and during which they will have been assessed regularly to see if they are up to the job. Ergo, an appointment to a final is therefore a positive endorsement of that referee's prior performance. Certainly at Supply and Contributory League levels, referees are assessed almost every second game as their respective leagues are mandated to assess a certain percentage of games to maintain their status at that level. That is the case in the CCL and, to date, of the 12 games I’ve had refereed on it this season, I’ve been assessed 6 times. The analogy about a player and a scout is a poor one as very few scouts will make a judgement on a player without having seen him play more than once. In the same way, a referee will be assessed by different assessors in a number of games, so a diligent scout would do the same for a player in order to get a clearer picture of their ability and potential.

 

GA

 

Edited March 18, 2011 by Gluck_ab

[Green_Fingers]

Doesn't the assessor have to be present at the Refs pre-match briefing to his assistants?

[Gluck_ab]

Yes, that's correct and is good practice as it ensures that he is aware of the instructions issued by the referee to his assistants and what responsibilities he is / is not delegating to them. Any matters that need clarification are addressed at this stage to ensure every member of the officiating team know what is expected of them. In that way, subsequently, if there is any issue during the game where those instructions aren't followed then the assessor is able to mark accordingly. The assessor can then raise any such issues in his verbal debrief after the game and in more detail in his written assessments to the officials a few days later.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Gluck_ab

[VPCTFC]

The problem you find Gluck is that a lot of people involved in football think assessors are there to catch refs out and get them demoted which is why they should be lurking in the shadows. They don't get the concept that it's not a test - the refs will have already passed their tests to be at the level they're at.

At my work we get assessors and auditors regularly - they're not trying to get people sacked.

[Mewcenary]

Gluck_ab is spot on.

 

In addition, what makes you think a referee would act differently just because they are being assessed at a cup final? Again, they will have been used to being assessed and will have performed well in order to gain the appointment on merit.

 

Is there a particular incident in this game that you feel the referee made a decision you did not agree with simply due to an assessor being present?

 

Pressure is mentioned but wouldn't you consider the fact that it is a CUP FINAL more likely to induce stress than an assessor being there? Assessors are friendly people, incidentally, there to help improve referee performance... they aren't just itching to use their red pen...

 

 

[Wattsy]

Thanks everyone a great squad effort, especially from the two lads who came on after playing 90 for the reserves the previous night. If we gain promotion i can retire a happy man . Thanks all that came to support.

 

 

Congratulations Stoney to all you guys at South Park. Was it you who missed the penalty?

 

And whats this rubbish about retiring?! Surely not, you're not that old are you??

 

 

No mate i was off injured, after watching TRS vids the Dons keeper dived to his right and saved 2 in 1 of the games so if we got a penalty i was putting it left, problem was i forgot to tell anyone when i went off! Doh! Be 33 this year and got another Molly due in the summer, so would be nice to go out on a real high, but who knows might get rid of the beer gut and give it another season.

Really? Jezz you don't look 33, got just over six years on me As for the beer gut, you look slimmer now than when you guys fist came into the league, but congratulations on the new arrival due

[Gluck_ab]

I agree - it's about quality control, maintenance of standards and identifying areas for development. Not unlike what managers do a regular basis with their players!

[Green_Fingers]

I agree - it's about quality control, maintenance of standards and identifying areas for development. Not unlike what managers do a regular basis with their players!

 

So Tristan - watch out for the "hairdryer" treatment or a boot being thrown at you next time you drop below standards expected

[Mewcenary]

I agree - it's about quality control, maintenance of standards and identifying areas for development. Not unlike what managers do a regular basis with their players!

 

So Tristan - watch out for the "hairdryer" treatment or a boot being thrown at you next time you drop below standards expected

 

Just not going to happen ;-)

 

 

 

[Ex EL_Gaffer]

Congrats to Joe Mc, Molly and all at South Park, well done on a great win

 

Great video highlights as always TRS

[The Fan]

Gluck_ab is spot on.

 

In addition, what makes you think a referee would act differently just because they are being assessed at a cup final? Again, they will have been used to being assessed and will have performed well in order to gain the appointment on merit.

 

Is there a particular incident in this game that you feel the referee made a decision you did not agree with simply due to an assessor being present?

 

Pressure is mentioned but wouldn't you consider the fact that it is a CUP FINAL more likely to induce stress than an assessor being there? Assessors are friendly people, incidentally, there to help improve referee performance... they aren't just itching to use their red pen...

 

 

to be honest i was thinking of the assessment in general, not a cup final. have been to many many games, of all levels this season. and i am not one to blame refs, for poor results. but nearly everytime, there has been an assessor there, the ref has had a game where, his decisions have been strange. now that might offend the refs on this site.but thats my observations. i think you have to look closer to home, re what the publics perseptions are. if the man with the clipboard did not stand out as much. or if the ref did not tell the skippers, im being assessed. they may acheive more in there chosen path. knowing that there is a man in the stand, gives certain managers and supporters, excuses for poor results.

[A.Gumbo7]

Well Done South Park

 

Good game to watch- Had everything.

 

Thought Steve Wilson (Centre back) was MOM

 

Special mention to Dale Burgess (Sub that assisted to OG/Winner)

[NICE GUY]

GLUCK & MEW,

 

I CERTAINLY AGREE THAT A SCOUT WILL NOT MAKE A DECISION ON A PLAYER OVER ONE GAME. IF SCOUTS SEE POTENTIAL THEY WILL WATCH THE PLAYER SEVERAL TIMES, COS WE ALL KNOW THAT WE HAVE BAD GAMES SO ITS THE CONSISTANCY WE ARE LOOK AT WHICH I FEEL GOES FOR REFEREE'S AS WELL.

 

I DON'T THINK THAT TF IS ONLY REFERING TO BEING ASSESSED AT A CUP FINAL, I THINK HE MEANS IN GENERAL.

 

I WATCH ALOT OF CCL GAMES THIS SEASON AND WOULD SAY THAT AT LEAST HALF OF THESE AN ASSESSOR HAS BEEN IN ATTENDANCE. NOW I'M NOT SAYING THEY ARE GOOD FOR REFEREES HOWEVER WHAT I WILL SAY, IS THAT WHEN PEOPLE WATCH A REFEREE'S PERFORMANCE A COMMON COMMENT I HEAR IS '' IS THE REF BEING ASSESSED'' SIMPLY BECAUSE THE MAJORITY OF SUPPORTERS FEEL THE SAME AS I AND TF. IN MY OPINION, I FEEL THAT REFEREE'S ARE PRESSURISED KNOWING THEY ARE BEING ASSESSED, A BIT LIKE A PLAYER IF HE KNEW A SCOUT WAS WATCHING THEM, THEY TRY TO BE PERFECT. NOW I KNOW WE WOULD ALL LIKE PERFECTION BUT BEING A REF I HONESTLY FEEL THAT THE MORE RELAXED THEY ARE THE BETTER PERFORMANCE, AGAIN LIKE A PLAYER.

 

AGAIN MY OPINION, ITS COMING TO A STAGE NOW THAT I CAN THINK TO MYSELF THIS REF IS BEING ASSESSED, AND MORE OR LESS I FIND I'M RIGHT. ALL WE ARE SAYING WITHOUT BEING DETRIMENTAL IS THAT I'VE SEEN SOME EXCELLENT PERFORMANCES BY REFS IN THE CCL (IE) THE DREADLOCK REF DONT KNOW HIS NAME ? BY AND LARGE THEIR PERFORMANCES HAVEN'T BEEN THAT BAD (THERE HAVE BEEN EXCEPTIONS). SHOULD YOU READ MY POSTS, I SUPPORT REFS AS MUCH AS I CAN, AS I AND I KNOW MANY, MANY OTHER SUPPORTERS, PLAYERS AND MANAGEMENT WOULD NEVER DO THE JOB, ITS A THANKLESS JOB BUT A HOBBY TO THE REFS LIKE PLAYERS WITH FOOTBALL.

 

MAJORITY OF THESE GOOD REFEREE PERFORMANCES, THEY ARE ''NOT'' BEING ASSESSED ! SO ONE CAN UNDERSTAND WHY PUT THE REFS UNDER PRESSURE WHICH NORMALLY GIVES A BELOW PAR PERFORMANCE. I KNOW THE FA SET THE RULES, BUT I PERSONALLY FEEL YOU DO NOT GET THE BEST OUT OF A REFEREE TO SHOW HIS/HER TRUE POTENTIAL ''KNOWING'' THEY ARE BEING ASSESSED.

 

THIS SUBJECT WILL CONTINUE ON AND ON WITH DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES OF EACH SIDE OF THE FENCE (IE) SUPPORTERS, PLAYERS, MANAGEMENT VS FA, REFEREES - AT THE END OF THE DAY, LETS ALL REMEMBER THAT WITHOUT REFEREE'S WE DON'T HAVE FOOTBALL MATCHES !

Edited March 18, 2011 by NICE GUY

[Smudge]

Why do Refs have to be told they are being assessed.I liken it to the 11 plus exams of many years ago.Many pupils could not handle the pressure of Exams and failed.Likewise Refs may be great in a normal game,but under pressure they cannot handle the situation,do they feel they have to apply the Laws to the strict letter,as the Ref. did the other night.14 yellows,2 Reds tells me he did .But once he had set his stall out,he could not use any common sense in the game whatsoever.

[Green_Fingers]

Why do Refs have to be told they are being assessed.I liken it to the 11 plus exams of many years ago.Many pupils could not handle the pressure of Exams and failed.Likewise Refs may be great in a normal game,but under pressure they cannot handle the situation,do they feel they have to apply the Laws to the strict letter,as the Ref. did the other night.14 yellows,2 Reds tells me he did .But once he had set his stall out,he could not use any common sense in the game whatsoever.

 

Better still why can't they be assessed every game - there's enough spare Refs to have a "4th" official who if trained could also act as match assessor ?

[Mewcenary]

There aren't enough spare referees. There are also not a great number of assessors to go around (you do need special training to be an Assessor). In addition, no-one who is actually involved in a match is permitted to assess it. A 4th Official is actively involved.

[Smudge]

Special Training?To be an assessor,are there not one set of rules?

[Gluck_ab]

Why do Refs have to be told they are being assessed.I liken it to the 11 plus exams of many years ago.Many pupils could not handle the pressure of Exams and failed.Likewise Refs may be great in a normal game,but under pressure they cannot handle the situation,do they feel they have to apply the Laws to the strict letter,as the Ref. did the other night.14 yellows,2 Reds tells me he did .But once he had set his stall out,he could not use any common sense in the game whatsoever.

 

I was unable to attend Wednesday's game so can't comment specifically on the number of cautions and the 2 sendings-off, however, I would be interested to know what the cautions were for and when the first of them was issued. The former could give an indication of the nature of the game - and no tjust that it was a Cup Final and the palyers would have been more up for it - whilst the second could give an indication that the referee did let the players play but they chose to do so outside of the laws of the game. Consequently, he then had to apply those laws with the use of cautions and sendings-off, mandatory or otherwise. I agree though that there is a balance to be achieved in setting out your stall - too early, or too soft, a caution dictates the same being applied for the remainder of the game but too late a caution and match control may be lost.

 

Put simply, players can make it hard or easy for a referee in a game. Think of last year's World Cup final which Howard Webb refereeed. Did either of those teams want to play football in a manner they had shown they were able to? And were the 13 yellows and 1 red card adminstered in that game a reflection of him as a referee or of Holland and Spain's players?

 

I agree with the unwritten Law 18 - common sense - but applying it should not be at the expense of the 17 written laws in the game. Greater knowledge of those by players, management, spectators, commentators, etc, would assist the referee and allow him to let the players play the game.