3G/4G Pitches

[readingrebel]

In absolutely no circumstances should we go for any type of pitch which gets us excluded from FA competitions or sees us having to play ties on a netural ground. My favourite Slough memories are in the FA Cup and Trophy and we would be poorer without them. A good cup run could see the club net a fortune, the vast majority of that would be wasted if we were seeking netural venues for our home ties.

 

I am all for making the club as profitable as possible but football has been played on grass for generations without any real difficulties. A couple of freak winters followed by wet springs does not mean we should immediately be looking for a different surface.

 

As Chris says it would still get frozen and the surrounding areas would still be dangerous so we would still have postponements in bleak winters.

 

I think we can build enough into the stadium complex to secure our long term future without having to go down the 4G route. In addition if other clubs in the area also opt for it, it may lose its novelty. Perhaps 4G is the latest fad that will soon go by the wayside like the plastic pitches we saw in the 80s.

 

 

My initial thoughts are that I tend to agree.

 

What with Rubber balls, a surface not ideal for normal boots, games still being called off for Snow and Ice and probably playing all our FA cup games away from home if allowed to.

 

As Martin has said, if our main concern is trying to make the club profitable, we need to build enough into the complex to bring in some revenue i.e. Clubhouse/social club, functions hall, training pitches etc.

[Martin]

And just to add that the most recent games we have had postponed/abandoned are Daventry, Woodford, Arlesey and Barton all of which were away from home so we could have been playing on a surface as good as the Emirates and it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference because we can't control the oppos pitch!

[rebelade]

I don't know if there is a difference betwwen 3G and 4G pitches but i have played on the 3G pitches at Powerleague at Slough and the ball runs well and normal football boots can be worn, although the old hard artifical pitches needed flat soled trainers. The grass is covered by rubber particles and these tend to end up everywhere from my boots, car,washing machine and stuck to my bald head. The main problem with artificial pitches is how far Slough would climb the non league pyramid. As i understand it these pitches are not allowed to be used in the conference north/south or higher, therefore if Slough where to get promoted this season the Premier is the highest we could be, as Durham City found out last season. Also no FA cup games could be played at home neither could the youth team play any further than the qualifying rounds of the FA Youth cup, but FA Trophy games are fine

It's strange the English FA are like this when World Cup/World Cup Qualifying games hace been played on artificial pitches

Another possibilty is the use of platic pitch covers which i believe are used by Woking and Fleetwood. A lot cheaper than 3G pitches (apprx £15,000) but do require a little bit of man power to clear

 

Adrian (not irishadrian)

[chris sliski]

keep your views coming... very interesting...

 

 

Just to say again...

 

the FA cup ..will be revamped by the FA soon , non league teams will most properly get re seeded and may never ever get to the stage where

Crawley found themselves...ever again ..but time will tell what they have for this great competition , but its more and more thatonly non league clubs

find it to be a great competition ..The Elite just see it as an irritant these days and treat it with contempt ...the 909 debate last saturday ..had lots and lots of new ideas how to exclude the non league clubs ! where would that leave us ?

 

Normal football boots can be worn on the 4g surface

 

 

We could always enter the european cup , where games can be played on plastic pitches ? maybe the FA need to accept this maybe the way we have to go , if football its to remains a winter sport ? just ideas and thoughts for more debate ....

 

chris s IMO

Edited February 23, 2011 by chris sliski

[Matt]

Chris, you keep banging on about revamping the FA Cup, but whilst I think they may change a few things, I can't see a change as radical as seeding. It would be an outrage. It's almost as if you're resigned to this and are happy for us to do without the FA Cup, which I will never agree with.

[chris sliski]

Matt... Its not me banging on about the FA cup...its a major debate ....within football circles....

 

909 on the BBC had 2 hours about last saturday ! interesting... views....and some radical ideas..

 

 

 

All my views are personal and open for discussion on this message board.

 

 

The idea of 4g is and only a thought (Idea) to ensure enough money is generated with a stadium to be used for more than a few matches a week ..

 

I am also under the impression that this is a community stadium , and STFC will be only use the complex a few times a week in the football season .. so its

 

important to investigate all options... Football does not generate enough money to keep football alive ... and the ideas of a social club or wedding venue are not the answer either these days...

 

 

we need ideas on what or the needs of people in this day and age ... to ensure the venue is used and generates money....sadly football does not do this...

 

 

ideas please....

Edited February 23, 2011 by chris sliski

[GarySTFC]

All, just moved this into it's own (deserved) separate topic for discussion from the Barton postponement thread. Some good points being made and plenty still to discuss.

[readingrebel]

Apparently there are already '5G' pitches about and there will probably be 6G etc. in the future.

 

As an alternative what about 'Desso Grassmaster' which is 100% grass re-inforced with Synthetic grass fibres as used by Arsenal etc?

 

 

[Ian]

Apparently there are already '5G' pitches about and there will probably be 6G etc. in the future.

 

As an alternative what about 'Desso Grassmaster' which is 100% grass re-inforced with Synthetic grass fibres as used by Arsenal etc?

 

 

Watford use the same although the egg chasers (Saracens) have trashed it! It needed replacing some years ago but we haven't had the money to do it. Not sure how the cost of a 'desso' pitch compares to a 4G.

[chris sliski]

Cheers gary... I would love that desso grassmasters if it could be proved that it would last extra ware and tear on it..

 

any ideas of what things could be incorporated into the new ground, to ensure enough revenues are made, to ensure our future ?

 

 

How about a dog track ? around the ground ... similar to our old dolphin days ? (just jesting) !

 

come on ideas please..

 

cheers Chris s

[Chris]

My view is simple:

 

1) If it plays a major role in us getting a new stadium or can generate a lot of revenue for the club then get whatever pitch in.

 

2) If it doesn't then stick to grass!

[Tom]

I would love that desso grassmasters if it could be proved that it would last extra ware and tear on it..

 

I'm pretty sure it can cope. Arsenal, Wembley and Reading have it. Wembley has multiple events a year (rugby, American Football, entertainment, motor racing) and Reading FC also host London Irish. Admittedly they have full time grounds men but Slough wouldn't need one, all it would need is a bit of care and attention on a regular basis. Which SYCOB haven't done on their pitch.

 

I think one point that has been missed in this debate so far is the cost. A quick Google suggests the average 4G/desso pitch installation ranges between £250,000-£500,000, then you have to factor in regular life cycle maintenance. Will the club have that again in 5-10 years time? I very much doubt it. Does any non-league club (Crawley aside perhaps) have that sort of money? It would also be pointless spending that amount on a pitch without the associated under soil heating and drainage.

 

In comparison, Farnborough FC have just spent £500,000 on their new 1350 seater stand which includes disabled facilities and a concourse featuring toilets, catering, bar and shop - see here - If the club is seriously considering spending £000's on a 4G pitch which limits the clubs entry into competitions when it could potentially improve it's overall facilities then I think it has it's priorities wrong.

[readingrebel]

I would love that desso grassmasters if it could be proved that it would last extra ware and tear on it..

 

I'm pretty sure it can cope. Arsenal, Wembley and Reading have it. Wembley has multiple events a year (rugby, American Football, entertainment, motor racing) and Reading FC also host London Irish. Admittedly they have full time grounds men but Slough wouldn't need one, all it would need is a bit of care and attention on a regular basis. Which SYCOB haven't done on their pitch.

 

I think one point that has been missed in this debate so far is the cost. A quick Google suggests the average 4G/desso pitch installation ranges between £250,000-£500,000, then you have to factor in regular life cycle maintenance. Will the club have that again in 5-10 years time? I very much doubt it. Does any non-league club (Crawley aside perhaps) have that sort of money? It would also be pointless spending that amount on a pitch without the associated under soil heating and drainage.

 

In comparison, Farnborough FC have just spent £500,000 on their new 1350 seater stand which includes disabled facilities and a concourse featuring toilets, catering, bar and shop - see here - If the club is seriously considering spending £000's on a 4G pitch which limits the clubs entry into competitions when it could potentially improve it's overall facilities then I think it has it's priorities wrong.

 

 

Apparently a Desso pitch is supposed to last 10/15 years and Drainage is already built in.

 

When the time comes for it to be renewed, all that needs re-placing is the playing surface.

[A Rebel and a Saint]

In my opinion I would prefer to stick to grass rather than paying out for a fancy pitch that will still probably freeze up (or at least the surroundings will), and use the money to produce a good stadium - terracing, covering, a decent bar and facilities, and even the money to pay for a groundsman and equipment to look after the pitch properly.

While no one likes games being called off, it happens and no fancy pitch will change that at our level because we cannot afford the luxuries of undersoil heating and proper drainage that make sure that the top level games are played. It would be better to develop a good facility which will help to make the club money IMO.

 

 

[3spirit]

Cheers gary... I would love that desso grassmasters if it could be proved that it would last extra ware and tear on it..

 

any ideas of what things could be incorporated into the new ground, to ensure enough revenues are made, to ensure our future ?

 

 

How about a dog track ? around the ground ... similar to our old dolphin days ? (just jesting) !

 

come on ideas please..

 

cheers Chris s

 

 

Well Chris S, I think the new stadium should copy the old Wexham Road stadium,in regards to the excellent car park.This is ideal for bringing revenue into the club without the need to go on the pitch.Being that I live opposite our old ground,I know that the car park there has been used for various functions ie car boot sales,haulage lorry driver tests,double decker/single decker road tests and as a car park. I'm surprised they haven't tried using it as an overflow car park for Wexham Hospital. What point I'm trying to make is that the hard standing car park is an asset ,worth considering for the new ground.

I would urge the use of CC TV/proper stewarding though,as I remember distinctly,a scam going on,in our Conference days, when at most home games,some lowlife was breaking into cars.

 

What wasn't a money spinner was the driving range and the one thing about that function which was poorly thought out, was the fact that the range faced the Wexham Road because despite high nets,golf balls found their way over them,as my front garden testified ! lol ! If they had put the range the other way around it wouldn't have been a hazard to traffic or people's houses.

So you see,good well thought out,deliberated plans for our long-awaited new stadium are a must because there are always gaffes.

 

We must also ensure that the council provide far more signposts to the new ground and we must have a widespread advertising campaign to put the new stadium on the map.This was something never really achieved with the old Wexham Park ground.When walking my dog,I often got asked by cars and coaches,where Slough Town Football Club was !

 

I think we should consider building a small but intimate theatre to be part of the facilities.Say about 300-500 seats for performances of all types ie bands,theatre performances, acts,speakers, etc. The venue could be hired out to all our local instituitions ie council,NHS,schools,private businesses for lectures,etc. This would be a sideline money-spinner,if run correctly and wouldn't be such an extortiate cost to build.Perhaps with the West Wing/Art Council involvement we may be able to share the costs. To my knowledge,the town currently hasn't anything like that.

[Ted]

.When walking my dog,I often got asked by cars and coaches,where Slough Town Football Club was !

 

 

That's scary. Talking cars and coaches!!

 

I think I'll avoid that area.

[readingrebel]

Cheers gary... I would love that desso grassmasters if it could be proved that it would last extra ware and tear on it..

 

any ideas of what things could be incorporated into the new ground, to ensure enough revenues are made, to ensure our future ?

 

 

How about a dog track ? around the ground ... similar to our old dolphin days ? (just jesting) !

 

come on ideas please..

 

cheers Chris s

 

 

Well Chris S, I think the new stadium should copy the old Wexham Road stadium,in regards to the excellent car park.This is ideal for bringing revenue into the club without the need to go on the pitch.Being that I live opposite our old ground,I know that the car park there has been used for various functions ie car boot sales,haulage lorry driver tests,double decker/single decker road tests and as a car park. I'm surprised they haven't tried using it as an overflow car park for Wexham Hospital. What point I'm trying to make is that the hard standing car park is an asset ,worth considering for the new ground.

I would urge the use of CC TV/proper stewarding though,as I remember distinctly,a scam going on,in our Conference days, when at most home games,some lowlife was breaking into cars.

 

What wasn't a money spinner was the driving range and the one thing about that function which was poorly thought out, was the fact that the range faced the Wexham Road because despite high nets,golf balls found their way over them,as my front garden testified ! lol ! If they had put the range the other way around it wouldn't have been a hazard to traffic or people's houses.

So you see,good well thought out,deliberated plans for our long-awaited new stadium are a must because there are always gaffes.

 

We must also ensure that the council provide far more signposts to the new ground and we must have a widespread advertising campaign to put the new stadium on the map.This was something never really achieved with the old Wexham Park ground.When walking my dog,I often got asked by cars and coaches,where Slough Town Football Club was !

 

I think we should consider building a small but intimate theatre to be part of the facilities.Say about 300-500 seats for performances of all types ie bands,theatre performances, acts,speakers, etc. The venue could be hired out to all our local instituitions ie council,NHS,schools,private businesses for lectures,etc. This would be a sideline money-spinner,if run correctly and wouldn't be such an extortiate cost to build.Perhaps with the West Wing/Art Council involvement we may be able to share the costs. To my knowledge,the town currently hasn't anything like that.

 

 

Looking at the original stadium plans, there obviously is parking space provided but nowhere near the size and shape of Wexham Park and I would hazard a guess any new plans that have been drawn up since would not have included any extra parking space.

 

I'm sure I read somewhere that the West Wing are no longer to be part of the new stadium plans?

 

As far as well thought out, deliberated plans go, wasn't the final plans (after numerous changes) supposed to have been agreed by all concerned parties at the meeting 2 weeks ago?

 

As for the Theatre facilities your talking about, I would assume that's the same as a Functions room for Weddings, Groups etc. that I've previously mentioned to help make the club profitable and I think it was Chris S that we need more than those things to make the club profitable.

[chris sliski]

The theatre is out of the question right now ...as this will be in corporated into the new art centre in Town..

 

Car Park Space ..will always be a problem .how ever many spaces that are made and this .will need careful planing ...The reason for this site is that it will be a very green site , with fantastic

 

transport links..on major bus routes and also is only 3/4 mile away from the Railway station and a new futuristic bus station

 

...a much better prospect that public transport will be key to a better infrastructure and access for all...

 

Ideas needed on the more money raising items or facilities that could sustain a healthy future for the club and the community stadium..

 

cheers chris s

 

 

[chris sliski]

The original plans were just outline plans , of where things could be put on the site ,

this will need a lot of tweaking I guess ?

and a more detailed plan , I would have thought is being worked on..

 

Thus the reason for this posting to get some good ideas from you our supporters..

 

cheers chris s

 

 

 

 

 

 

[readingrebel]

The original plans were just outline plans , of where things could be put on the site ,

this will need a lot of tweaking I guess ?

and a more detailed plan , I would have thought is being worked on..

 

Thus the reason for this posting to get some good ideas from you our supporters..

 

cheers chris s

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well blow me, after all the draft plans that have been drawn up and altered over the past months/years, I'm sure I read that an agreement was reached on the final stadium/complex plans.