Broken Legs

[Barking Mad]

Following a flurry of broken legs this season and comments from Danny Murphy blaming particular managers for their style of play I wondered what peoples thoughts were.

 

We had a lad at Barking suffer a hurrendous injury following a dispicable challenge from an Eton Manor player. A lad broke his leg for London APSA last night. There have been other incidents where players have suffered broken legs in our league and the Ryman One league.

 

There seems to be players suffering these type of injuries week in week out and is it to do with the style of play? I know in this league in particular there is a tendency for thuggery on the football pitch where the bigger and stronger teams "beat up" the footballing teams. It is not pretty to watch but it has been successfult (to an extent). But are we starting to go too far? Is leaving your "mark" on an opponent acceptable any more? Players that break legs in the Premier league get around the clock treatment from the moment the injury occurs until the moment they are fit to play again. The same can not be said for players at this level who have jobs to think of and families to feed.

 

How refreshing is it to see a young team like stansted play great great football and be rewarded.

 

Perhaps referees and the FA could concentrate more on stamping this out of the game rather then worry about what colour undershorts a player has on!

 

The message here to players and managers is THINK before you act on the pitch and look after each other.

[No.6]

I can't comment on the incident at Eton Manor (although by all accounts it was a nasty tackle), however I was there last night and saw the injury. Whilst I understand the general point being raised here what happened at APSA last night was extremely sad but in no way nasty or mallicious

 

It was the result of a committed 50/50, neither player was 'over the top' and I'm sure anyone that saw it last night on either side would agree. Clearly the APSA lad came out worst but the other player involved was extremely upset by what happened and I know everyone at Basildon would like to send on their best wishes for a speedy recovery. All the best mate

[FCFAN]

The Eton Manor incident was a very poor tackle indeed, but I don't think that is indicative of the way Eton Manor try to play or their style as a team, and I actually think it's a bit naughty of Barking Mad to imply that. From what I hear and what I read on here last night was a 50/50 tackle..... and sadly just one of those things.

 

 

[Barking Mad]

FC Fan - I am not trying to point the finger at Eton Manor here. Far from it. Perhaps you have miscoonstrued what I actually mean. I simply used that isolated incident in my point because I witnessed it. My point here is that in this league (in general) there is a focus on the physical aspects of the game rather then the footballing. Are you telling me I am wrong about this?

 

No 6 - Once again I was not there last night and I am not pointing fingers. My point is that there are a lot of broken legs this season and I am wondering why that is. Are we more worried about winning the physical battle then the footballing one?

[FCFAN]

I wouldn't say that there is a focus on the physical aspects more than the footballing ones. I think in the ESL the balance is pretty good. Yes there is a physical element, but at the same time see some decent football in the ESL. I grew up watching the Northern Alliance (now just called the Northern League) up in the North East.... and then in my 30s lived in the North West briefly and watched the early years of the North West Counties........ and the ESL is a pussy cat league in comparison.

 

Nobody wants to see broken legs and the one in the Barking game was a bad one but I don't think at this point that the situation is out of control. Of course there is a responsibility on players and managers to play within the rules of the game and not behave in a reckless manner but I don't believe that there are teams in the ESL whose game plan is "kick 'em." And I see everyone at different points through the season........ and I just don't get that impression.

 

 

[GAFFA1]

Apart of me agrees with barking mad but then a part of me don’t I agree there are some teams that try and hurt your players cause there not has good has them has a footballer my players get kicked and hurt every week but its part of the game and my gk has not played since the stansted game out with ligament injury, look I agree statnsted play good football but no how to mix it has well and put a foot in and there is nothing wrong with that, I have learnt from last season that the teams we lost against where the ones that kicked us of the park, so this season I have broght more physical players in cause if you cant beat them then join them, a good team has to be able to do both play and be physical, I agree tho there are some players and teams that go out to hurt players but what can you do. Its football and that’s why we all love it.

 

 

Im just glad we have a game this weekend feels like weeks ago we played are last game against barking.

 

 

 

 

[Barking Mad]

I don't believe that there are teams in the ESL whose game plan is "kick 'em."

 

I think you are very naive FC Fan if you believe this. But that is just my opinion and it doesnt mean I am right.

[Barking Mad]

Yes you have a point Gaffa. I would rather see teams beat eachother playing football which I know is wishful thinking but I just prefer that then seeing one side getting lumps taken out of them.

[Jenko]

Danny Murphy's comment about some footballers having no brains was superbly highlighted when Phil Neville made his contribution and stated...'if I was faced with a tricky left winger my first job was to kick him up in the air...' ...says it all really.

 

 

[GAFFA1]

jenko but u was that kind of player kicking people in the air, @ eaton m u would always say to me back in the days smash the little c#nt.

 

 

 

Barking mad i agree would rather see football being played rather then hurting people but if football was that straght forward it would be boring and we would have nothing to moan about:grin:

[Talk_Is_Cheap]

Hopefully I will articulate this in the right way.

 

I have played in the ESL for 10 years and played for both good and bad sides, i think that the reason why the physical element plays such a big part in any ESL fixture is because of 2 reasons.

 

1. The technical ability of the majority of players is not that great.

 

2. The standard of some of the mangement is not that great.

 

Before this rattles to many cages, let me explain.

 

When I say the technical ability of the players is not the best, I dont mean this as an insult and I'm more than aware that people could provide me with a list of players as long as their leg who have played in the ESL and gone on to achieve big things. But in my opinion the average player in the ESL is of a good satandard but not a great standard, therefore players who are commited, fit and passionate can play in the ESL and do a great job because the skill gap between themselves and the average ESL player is usually fairly small - Could these players play in the Ryman league - not a chance, because their work ethic and comitment alone is not enough at that level, the players at that level are either technically better or have both ability and work rate.

 

Therefore you can put an ESL side together that can compete and hold their own in the division by adopting an "Up and at them" approach with players who are committed but maybe not as technically as good, because they can close that skill gap with work rate / Aggression alone.

 

Secondly (I'm sure this is not always the case as well) but almost all half time team talks envolve the manager talking about "[censored]" "Want" "Commitment" "Work Rate" "Passion" and very little on tactics, phases of play and how to stop your opponents strenghts and exploit their weaknesses. Therefore, you usually get a second half performance that involves players who are over pumped...and thus more likely to rattle into challenges.

 

Please dont get me wrong, I love the ESL and enjoy the physcial side of the game, and as Gaffa said, if it was always the best footballing side that won the game would be boring..........I suppose my point is that the ESL is towards the bottom of the non league pyramid, therefore the standard of the average player is going to be lower, the lower the standard the easyier it is for the skill gap to be bridged with effort, work rate and aggression - Thus the ESL will always be a physcial and commited league, and a hard league to get out of if a side has ability alone - As with everything the best sides have a blend.

 

If its any consilation the ESL of 10 years ago was a tough tough place to play - Today there is probably more football played than ever before..!!

[GAFFA1]

Talk is cheap – think you made some valid points there but 1 thing I would disagree with is the teams at the top end and challenging for honours there manager’s would have to do a bit more then just shout to get stuck in or work hard, against good teams u would have to explore there weakness to try and get an advantage over them, they best tactics against BGU last season came from the Burnham management and the smartest GK in the league smallsy new what they where doing when they beat us 2.0 last season, I want lie against the good teams I will try and exploit there weakness, cause every team has one but in the main your right if your in the oppositions face and close them down tackle hard you will do well in the league but have to have a bit more to win trophies, but if we all played the game how MR WENGER wants it played it would be great for the fans but would be boring if we where all the same, so I say there is nothing wrong with going in hard but I hate when a player goes into hurt someone and iv seen that its not nice a fair 50/50 is great to watch so lets not take the physical side of football out otherwise the game will be boring.

 

 

[Talk_Is_Cheap]

Fair enough Gaffa - Dont get me wrong, I tried to highlight that my sweeping statements were not the case in every scenario and I also agree that the 'top' teams are obviously less likley to fall into the points I mentioned above as they have better quality players and presumably better quality managers.

 

I just think that in the 'majority' because the ESL is the lowest step on the ladder you can get average players playing at a higher level than their talent warrents due to work rate / agression and commitment.

 

Obviously the higher the level the greater the skill gap, the more you need an all round game and the less you can relie on work ethic etc alone..!!

 

 

 

 

[onebreast]

talk is cheap i think youve hit the nail on the head .

 

I have despaired sometimes playing against and/or watching ESL teams play and they have young players who are making their way in the game and all they are being taught is to go around being a physical presence and getting the ball forward early as possible.

 

For me it is just one more tiny reason as to why England is falling so far behind other countries , as we dont teach people to play football , we just teach people to win by any means possible, and that is to stop anyone on the opposition playing football.

 

For a lot of clubs in the ESL their ground grading isnt good enough to be promoted , and there is no relegation , if i were in that situation , a la southend manor or london apsa's of this world ( to name but two ) surely would it not encourage the gaffer to try and teach his players the game , and for the boys with enough ability he can teach them enough that they are able to progress up the football pyramid.

 

Now you could just try and win every game by smashing it , and yeah ok it could win you the league , but you couldnt get promoted so whats the end result for you there ?

 

Or you could just ignore the league table and teach your side how to play football properly , and yes if you do it right you might lose half your team to ryman sides, but surely knowing that youve put players on the road to playing a good standard is more reward than a cup ??

[FCFAN]

Onebreast - in principle I totally agree. One thing I'd say though is it's demoralising to get beat every week even if you know you're playing the right way because everyone involved in football is competitve and to ignore the table and the results is pretty difficult.

[GAFFA1]

In my opinion there are @ least 5 teams in the ESL that could hold there own and are defo better then some of the teams in the bottom of the Ryman’s north or south.

 

 

but you made a good point onebreast in this country young players are taught to win @ all cost my son who is 8 plays for a team and when they loose they all cry and i have to has his my son say it dont matter you played well, but the manager will have a face like thunder, in my opinion there should be no league table for all ages under 14 and all games should be played for improving there talent not playing for points, but thats why i dont think i will ever be alive to watch england win the world cup, coaching in this country is shocking.

 

 

some coaches i see with Pro A badges makes me laugh

Edited October 8, 2010 by GAFFA1

[onebreast]

You are right mate , no one likes getting beat each week, but the coaching goes hand in hand with results to a point . if you are feeding boys through to the higher levels then your team will get a good rep and then talented boys will want to join.

 

I agree aswell that we will never be around to see England win the world cup unless something drastic happens to coaching .

 

I took my boy over to Southend Manor earlier in the season and their under 8's coaches just did not have a clue , i mean they gave all the spiel about being qualified but they did not have the first idea about teaching a young child to play football. One of them started having a go at one poor kid he had put at right back because he was wandering out of position. How is a 7 year old supposed to know how to play right back without any kind of teaching.

[whatzzzzuuuuup]

In my opinion there are @ least 5 teams in the ESL that could hold there own and are defo better then some of the teams in the bottom of the Ryman’s north or south.

 

 

but you made a good point onebreast in this country young players are taught to win @ all cost my son who is 8 plays for a team and when they loose they all cry and i have to has his my son say it dont matter you played well, but the manager will have a face like thunder, in my opinion there should be no league table for all ages under 14 and all games should be played for improving there talent not playing for points, but thats why i dont think i will ever be alive to watch england win the world cup, coaching in this country is shocking.

 

 

some coaches i see with Pro A badges makes me laugh

Which badge the pro licence or A licence? and which coaches?

[Jenko]

jenko but u was that kind of player kicking people in the air, @ eaton m u would always say to me back in the days smash the little c#nt.

 

 

 

Barking mad i agree would rather see football being played rather then hurting people but if football was that straght forward it would be boring and we would have nothing to moan about:grin:

 

PMSL...that is true Justin!!!!! However although I may have been known to be physical the one thing I never was, was dirty and I never went into hurt someone.

 

TIC you have made some good points and I agree the ESL a few ago was much more physical. When I played in the Ryman League and you got a team in the ESL in a cup match you knew it would be physical. I played against Woodford once and people were getting laided out off the ball, 2 footed challenegs every minute. It was mad.

 

With regards the coaching I couldn't agree more with people. When I completed my badges, the course was crap might I add, there were people on the course who couldn't even kick a ball. Now how are they meant to coach kids? The guy teaching us basically told us the FA wanted to get more people qualified so basically it was near on impossible to fail. Now that to me is all wrong! I could probably name on one hand the amount of superb coached I know. Qualifications don't make a good coach it just makes you legal as such. With kids football we need to do what nearly every other country does and make it non competitive until kids are older. Mouriniho made a great quote on a programme with Gary Lineker about the failures of the English game. He said, "Spain teach kids to play football, England teach kids to win".

 

Howard Wilkinson, not the brightest person I'll add, wrote a blueprint for the development of the game in this country about 10-12 years ago. The FA rejected it but Spain adopted it, due to their failures at World Level, as did Germany I believe some years after. You can see the results. One of the main points other than the non competitve issue for younger kids, was the development of the game nation wide, from 5 year olds though to professional level. It basically says that every child in spain is taught to play a certain way right up to when they turn pro, no matter who they play for and are coached by. That way every Spanish player can play the way the National team play. Many of the pro teams also play the same way. Germany adopted the same blueprint but got opposition from the pro teams but still developed it in the youth ranks. The pro teams didn't want to be dictated to as to what tactics and style of play that had to use. Klinsman as manager of the National team basically wanted the country to be above the pro teams in terms of importance. Although I don't agree with that and can see the issue of trying to get pro teams to adopt a certain style, the fundamental issue of teaching kids to play a certain way from 5 through to 18 is a good one. You can see this happening at Arsenal.

 

When my son gets to an age when he hopefully wants to play sport reguarly, as much as I love football and want him to play it, the issue of coaching and all the s**t that comes with football I think I would like him to try all the other sports out there.