Coaching badges or experience, whats more important?

[CW1975]

Hi all.

 

I have just signed up to the fans forum after reading your posts throughout the last season. I feel that I would like to join in and you seem a friendly bunch so I will start with this topic.

 

I have followed clubs and some managers from a far over the last two seasons after getting involved in the Combined Counties at a coaching level. I have noticed that there have been some well decorated managers/coaches with FA coaching badges levels 3 and 4 that have not really achieved very much. This leads me to the question of whether the badges are really required. I have no coaching badges and have done reasonably well for myself for ten years now.

 

Would an experienced ex player at this level and above be able to do a better job than someone with FA badges who may have only played park football? It would be interesting to hear your views.

[pearcey]

I think experience is better,but as with everything else in life you have to have a bit of paper to say you can do it.I have this issue as I have been coached by an England international for 2 years and another ex international for 14 months and played in goal for more than 22 years yet if I want to further my carear in Gk coaching I have to do the badges:(

[Krooner]

IMHO I think that they are both equally as improtant especially when you get further up the footballing ladder. I only coach youngsters and have done both my Level 2 Outfield and Level Goalkeeping Badges. Doing both of these have helped make me a better coach. Also the fact I have now been coaching for 5 years has also helped a great deal.

 

I would imagine a decent semi pro footballer will know enough to breeze through Level 2 and that was backed up when I did my Level 2 with at least 1 candidate. And that is due to experience.

 

People are different and need different things. Also it can depend a lot on the people you are dealing with. For example when I was going my Level 2 I did some of my hours with a team. When I turned up one of the players asked what I was doing there. I said my coaching and he said "WTF do you know you are a ref" and that was his attitude throughout the time I spent there. Funny enough I knew a great deal more than him !!!! But there were people there who actually took on baord what I said and it seemed to make a difference.

 

Bit like learning to drive really. You have to do it but get better with experience.

[Jeff Hamnett TSF]

relevant experience is whats needed, allied with education and training , which badges show.

for managers its more about the ability to get good players playing for you, trusting you, doing the job they were asked.

 

 

 

[FOX IN BOX]

I Believe both are important, the trick is getting the right balance. Would recommend any new coaches to take the badges as the more knowledge you have you can put to better use. couple that with what you've learnt yourself along the way from various managers/coaches you've respected then you will hopefully be not to far away.

If we didn't learn new things then would still be doing shuttles and hill runs for an hour every session before 10 a side kick fest

 

 

 

[Brunty.]

Id say in general - expierence but badges are important - i dont have any coaching badges but i reckon i could put together a pretty good coaching/training session by just taking various drills i have seen throught out my playing career. (around this level of football obviously) and players who have played higher could do the same at there level. if you have played football at this level for a while you know what its all about and the training required.

 

Having said that we have a coach at Hartley who has every badge/licence under the sun and some of his drills / training sessions are supurb but he isnt a great footballer.

 

 

Would an experienced ex player at this level and above be able to do a better job than someone with FA badges who may have only played park football? As for this question - definately the player who played at this level and higher.

[Terrence Collina]

I think experience is better,but as with everything else in life you have to have a bit of paper to say you can do it.I have this issue as I have been coached by an England international for 2 years and another ex international for 14 months and played in goal for more than 22 years yet if I want to further my carear in Gk coaching I have to do the badges:(

I agree with you on that one pearcey. Also, it is quite a financial committment to do the coaching courses compared to the refs course.

 

What has aided to my view is that I have come across some coaches who have all the badges under the sun, but they have never played or been involved at a level higher than park and are clueless.

 

Krooner, that certain player you mentioned, wasn't the lad who went for a ride in a children's helecopter ride by chance?

[Smudge]

T.C. Works the other way also,Coaches that have played at a much higher level,find it hard to communicate with players of a lesser standard and get frustrated.Rather have a Good Man Management Manager,than a technically gifted one,one that can get the best out of what he has,rather than expect the impossible.At this level Fitness is the key,give me 14 fit players,that stay out of the Pubs and Clubs on a Friday Night,I could walk this and Ryman South,Footballers nowadays are nowhere near fit enough.

[YHWhitby]

T.C. Works the other way also,Coaches that have played at a much higher level,find it hard to communicate with players of a lesser standard and get frustrated.Rather have a Good Man Management Manager,than a technically gifted one,one that can get the best out of what he has,rather than expect the impossible.At this level Fitness is the key,give me 14 fit players,that stay out of the Pubs and Clubs on a Friday Night,I could walk this and Ryman South,Footballers nowadays are nowhere near fit enough.

 

 

As with most things its about a balance however there is no substitute for experience. You can't beat understanding of your league, minds of players and man management. Mangement is not just about being able to put on a good training session.

 

From a keepers point of view looking at the outfield players training sessions it looks like massive art attacks with cones thrown about for the sake of it. In games you don't run round cones and while you can gain sharpness of movement its nothing on match practise,

[CW1975]

Some great views all with valid points.

 

Have to agree with Smudge and YHW as far as management goes. If you have a coaching team then you normally include a football coach and a fitness coach. The manager is the man who can get the players performing to their best ability. Players are all different and have different abilities. I have seen many players this season being asked to do jobs they are not as effective at. If you have experience of the game and a good knowledge of the league you played/managed in then you should know what is required of the players. Building a squad of players that have the right attributes in the areas you want them to perform is key to being a successful team. Gaining respect from players and letting them express themselves on the pitch as they know how to keeps them performing well. Asking a winger to play holding role creates a negative attitude. Managers need to know how to manage players/people, coaches need to know how to coach, in their respective fields.

 

So ultimately to be a coach, experience and badges. To be a manager, maybe not as necessary to have badges if you have the right coaches but the ability to man manage coupled with years of playing experience at this level or above and good tactical knowledge. If you disagree with something your coaches are doing, your the boss, ask them to change it. If you want them to work on individual areas then again, ask. It's not good just to do a training session for the sake of it, a training session to work on the faults within the team will better educate a player.

 

As I said in my original post, I haven't got any badges. I have done everything based on experience. I have always had respect from the players and even today had three calls from players who want to play where I go next season. However I have already been turned down without an interview at clubs due to not having badges.

 

Frustrating. Booking level 2 now.

 

Thanks for your responses on my first post on Fans Forum.

[Smudge]

Young veteran,don't give up the ghost you talk a lot of sense,but coaching badges are expensive courses to take,but even a lot of younger players have wised up to the fact,that if you get your badges there is a lot of money to be made nowadays.Kids Coaching is more rewarding than Managing a Team at this level,with all the heartbreaks that it entails.And unfortunately like many young players,how do you get your chance to get your foot in the door,if your not a name,therein lies the problem.Many Names who have plyed there trade higher,have never won a bean,but will always get 1st pick,and send your club down the drain in the process,then move on to their next job.

 

 

[CW1975]

Young veteran,don't give up the ghost you talk a lot of sense,but coaching badges are expensive courses to take,but even a lot of younger players have wised up to the fact,that if you get your badges there is a lot of money to be made nowadays.Kids Coaching is more rewarding than Managing a Team at this level,with all the heartbreaks that it entails.And unfortunately like many young players,how do you get your chance to get your foot in the door,if your not a name,therein lies the problem.Many Names who have plyed there trade higher,have never won a bean,but will always get 1st pick,and send your club down the drain in the process,then move on to their next job.

 

 

 

I will never give up Smudge, love the game too much. Tried kids footy, parents can be a pain. Managing a team at this level is my aim for now, I have confidence in my ability so hopefully no heartbreaks. Usually get my foot in the door through playing, at 35 it becomes harder but willing to do it this year if I have to. Not well known round here as played most of my football in Wessex League so better known managers/coaches are instantly recognised before me. I will persivere. Cheers.

[pearcey]

I think experience is better,but as with everything else in life you have to have a bit of paper to say you can do it.I have this issue as I have been coached by an England international for 2 years and another ex international for 14 months and played in goal for more than 22 years yet if I want to further my carear in Gk coaching I have to do the badges:(

I agree with you on that one pearcey. Also, it is quite a financial committment to do the coaching courses compared to the refs course.

 

What has aided to my view is that I have come across some coaches who have all the badges under the sun, but they have never played or been involved at a level higher than park and are clueless.

 

Krooner, that certain player you mentioned, wasn't the lad who went for a ride in a children's helecopter ride by chance?

Tc that's my point these guys/girls read the manual and haven't played any higher than their own back yard,but if I want to go higher in my cadacity as a Gk coach I have to do my badges,I haven't a problem with this as it's another string to my bow and i'll use it as a refresher.

[Krooner]

TC. Not at all he has respect for me so did the decent thing.

 

Pearcey. Do the badges they help undoubtedly. In saying that I wouldn't want to do mens football and will only ever use it for coaching youngsters.

[shoelessjoe]

TC. Not at all he has respect for me so did the decent thing.

 

Pearcey. Do the badges they help undoubtedly. In saying that I wouldn't want to do mens football and will only ever use it for coaching youngsters.

 

 

 

Its all about JOBS FOR THE BOYS !! Badges are a bonus but its all about who's your mate.Simple!! When youve got a mate you cant FAIL ,as a manager you can acheive sweet FA and even be relegated every season,and still walk into another club because youve had experience,

loads of club names look great on CV's but when you actually check what a prospective manager for your club has done its usually nothing!!!

 

Former players have a tendency to not do too well in management but will usually get the job because they have played at that said level.............

.Does the manager know his players?,does he understand there strengths and weaknesses?does he respect his players? Answer yes!! and they will be a decent appointment ..........................

[Smudge]

Shoelessjoe,absolutely spot on comments,now I know why I have never got a Managers job,I got no mates.Plus if you tell it as it is,rather than paint a rosy picture many Clubs do not like it.Anyway back to the original thread,Coaching badge Level 1 Course £150 in Surrey,£100 in Sussex,£60 in Kent which one shall I choose.A bit like Harrods and Aldi,will the Surrey one make me a better coach,definitely make me poorer.

[Terrence Collina]

Can you not go straight onto Level 2 Smudge?

[Smudge]

Dan, I'm getting on a bit,so need to get my foot in the door,and being a slow learner with no Football ability at all,I thought it was better to start at the bottom.

[Big J R]

Dan, I'm getting on a bit,so need to get my foot in the door,and being a slow learner with no Football ability at all,I thought it was better to start at the bottom.

 

Isn't that a bit kinky, Smudgey boy ??

 

 

Edited May 20, 2010 by Big J R

[shoelessjoe]

Dan, I'm getting on a bit,so need to get my foot in the door,and being a slow learner with no Football ability at all,I thought it was better to start at the bottom.

 

Smudge do the Aldi one as all the players that play at this level,will respect it more!!! Remember when you do get a 1st team job ,just throw a large fishing net around Lidl's to get your squad,easy!!

Success will follow!! And yes clubs do not like telling the truth and the have problems with loose cannons even if they are the best candidate for the job!! All too many chairman and commitees are too blinkered they can never see the bigger picture!!!

If they'd only stick with running the club!!! Not manage the team!!! Theres plenty of clubs in the CoCo with over busy chairman!! But if say anything !!!!