What communication do you expect/respect from the referee?

[The Fan]

I think there lies the problem, it is a them and us thing. you might notice its many fans that think we have a number of bad officials, im a neutral i watch many games yet if i point out a bad official, you get the silly have you never made a mistake mentality from some officials on here. smudge has put some thoughts into the arena for discusion, yet these are ridiculed, all we are left with is what we have now poor officials. yes i think officials should be respected by all. but this is not just about respect, this is being allowed to happen year on year.

and so far the only thing that anyone has come up with is respect officials. i watched R P V v N G last night.

i know that on the pitch there were at least 3 people being paid they wore black. if we paid more money would we get more consistant officials.

[Big J R]

I have no problem at all with Referee's going into home and away dressing rooms, PROVIDED, they knock first and are invited in by the team Manager.

 

Playing the advantage rule has too many drawbacks. The number of times I've heard supporters moaning that 'the other side are getting all the advantage decisions and we're getting none'. It's far too easy to make a rod for your own back. Personally, I am of the opinion that if an offence has been commited, then the appropriate action should be taken by the Referee. That way. he keeps 'consistancy'. OK, I can hear the cry of.... 'That won't let the game flow'.

 

RESPECT TO OFFICIALS: It has recently become obvious to me that certain managers tell and expect their players to constantly appeal decisions, especially from the assistants. One team in particular springs to mind, (no names - no pack drill !)

 

I could go on and on and on and...........

Edited April 16, 2010 by Big J R

[Smudge]

Name them B.J.R.

[Mewcenary]

I am certainly not ridiculing any of the suggestions put forward. I absolutely welcome the thoughts that are being placed here.

 

I don't consider not wishing to enter the dressing rooms as a 'Them and Us' attitude. It is simply a level of authority and professionalism. I may consider myself 'in charge' but that doesn't mean I am going to puff my chest out and flourish the cards because I AM THE MAN. I want to promote an image, where possible, of a great game of football where in an ideal situation nobody can even remember I was the referee because of how it went!

 

The players deserve their sanctuary....

[Krooner]

I tend to agree but disagree Fan. There is a them and us mentality. where does that come from ? I will tell you it comes from being constantly accused of mistakes even when you know you are right. As I have stated many many times before the players at this level get the referees at the same level. If you paid more money you wouldnt get better officials you would get more accusations thrown at the officials. I have played, watched, officiated at and even coached this level. When it comes down to it I referee because for a majority of time I enjoy it. If I get a throw in wrong is it because I meant to or beacuse I made a mistake. If I give a wrong call on a throw in I get called useless, rubbish and other less than complimentary things. I watch a striker, some on a damn site more money than I get, miss a 1 on 1 and all I hear is "unlucky son you will score the next one". this breeds a "them and Us" mentality.

 

Last week I did a game where there was a call over an incident. I made my decision and it wasn't agreed with by the away side. I had 3 players question me and as I blew the half time whistle I had the manager come up to me and question the decision. Each of those people questioned my decision and each of them listened to what I had to say. They didnt agree but had the decency to listen to my view and not one of them threw any abuse at me That to me was respect from everyone to everyone. As I walked off a specator came up to me and called me "A f****** disgrace and a f******* joke" So are you surprised I feel a little embattled. Most of my decisions are agreed with by 50% of the people and disagreed with ny 50% of the people. It can be tough.

 

I will always talk to players and managers if they want to talk to me rather than shout. There is a % of players that you just cannot talk too and I am afraid to say it is the same way with officials. I dont have an answer but will almost always defend the officials because more often than not they are right.

[Terrence Collina]

Challenge to non officials - go and do the course and then referee a couple of games. Shoe on the other foot etc.

 

There will still be a plus and a negative side

 

Plus - players/managers etc understanding the laws of the game better and why decisions are given

Negative - players/managers saying that the decision is incorrect based on Law no.....

 

There are poor officials at this level just like there are poor players and most of the players/refs are at this level because they are not good enough to go higher.

[Smudge]

I think a lot of People have missed the Main Point why Refs at Combined Counties do not improve,it's not because they do not know the Rules,its not because the Players do not know the rules.The reason is at any Trade or Profession you do the job on a regular basis,which keeps your hand in,keeps you fit etc.Just Imagine getting or Playing 2/3 games a month,when your in a pool of 80 plus,bit like phoning for a cab,your not happy when there are not enough to get you home.But the Car hire boss is not happy either when he has far too few drivers to satisfy his customers,so he employs more than he needs,a bit like the Lower Leagues do.So how can we expect our Officials to be any better than they are,it's not their fault.Just take a look at Football Mitoo and see how many Refs they use,surely they could have an Elite League of Officials.Lets shop at HARRODS not LIDL'S.

[VPCTFC]

My view as a supporter - the original question was 'what communication do we expect' from the ref. Answer - none. All we expect is that the correct decisions are made consistently. The odd mistake is allowable, just as it is from players but when he hear officals shout out 'he got the ball' when a horrific challenge is made it shows they haven't listened to what the county FA have said. I believe Mewc. has even said it on this thread. Whether the player gets the ball or not is irrelevant. Surrey FA re-iterated this point at the beginning of the season but even the officials don't seem to have taken it in. The lino at Bedfont the other week and the ref in a game or two before that both used that as an excuse to not give us a penalty or free-kick.

 

I've been a club lino in the past on Sunday mornings. I know it's not comparable to this level but I was officiating games that involved CCL players at the time. They swear and threaten you when you give them offside but I've got a thick skin so it didn't bother me. If I was getting paid £25 a time for doing it (before tax, not that any of them ever ask for a receipt for tax purposes) then it would bother me even less.

What wound me up more on Sundays was speaking to the ref, telling him a player had just called me a f**king cheating b*stard, only to see the ref do nothing about it cos they haven't got the balls. That's the main problem IMO. Refs are scared of applying the laws of the game properly cos they get shouted at.

 

In groundhopping circles it's well known that our league and the Spartan South Midlands League have the whingiest players at this level in the country. I'm including Camberley's players in this but they can be embarrassing with their calls.

'It's his first one ref' is a stupid call that should result in the player uttering it getting sent from the ground and banned from football for life.

The foul language coming from some teams is appalling. I swear. Quite a lot. Especially when I've had a drink but when you see some players at some clubs constantly effing and blinding, even when it's not having a go at someone, it even puts me off watching it's that bad. I don't want to pay £6 a game to hear you lot mouth off all the time. Why don't refs clamp down on this in our league like they do in others? Never mind communication - how about applying the laws of the game properly?

Sadly I think players have been allowed to get away with too much for too long and it's too late to try to reverse the tide so any communication issues are irrelevant.

[Krooner]

Smudge - Quite Agree with your last post.

 

VPCTFC - You are in a minority on that I am afraid. If a ref sent off 4 Cambo players at Krooner Park for swearing, other than you agreeing, how do you think it would be received by evryone else and how do you think the ref would be treated. Multiply that by 30 games going on each Saturday in the CCL.

 

I would like to put this to everyone on here. A referee has a poor game. How is he treated in the clubhouse ? Is he chatted to, asked to explain decisions politely and generally treated with a degree of respect. Or is he shunned, do people make comments behind their back before they get into the bar and when they are in there ?

 

The clubs best player has a stinker. How is he treated in the bar after the game ?

 

I would bring something in that would probably be unpopular. At the moment on the Premier Division match officials are invited into the boardroom. Do away with that and let them have their refreshments in the main bar. Lets encourage dialogue with people. In Div 1 referees go into the bar and I think that encourages people to communicate with each other. Just a suggestion.

[Weeble]

AHHHH That reasurring voice of reason....Totally agree Kroons.

[The Fan]

I would also like to see, 3 people officiating at the games. too often the ref tries to do everything. let the linos do there jobs. as for, the take the course argument, not sure that stands up. what is being pointed out time and again that people that have done the course, and reached a good level. are still week in week out, interpreting

the rules of our game, in differnt ways, i dont need a qualification to understand that. i just get confused, at petty things. i watched a fa cup tie R P V play someone where the ref held up the game for 5 mins because a keeper had black leggings. and according to him it would have been ok if it had been stated on the team sheet. he seemed to be on a power trip. but was then the worst ref i had seen no flow and again decisions that left people asking what was that for. if its like that for people like me that flit from game to game. it must get to players.

[Mewcenary]

I've lost count of the number of games now where I have had to explain how 'I got the ball!' does not exempt a player from punishment! Typically, "Okay, someone tackles you, gets the ball first, and breaks both your legs in the process.... happy with him getting away with that?"

 

Ultimately, players get their behaviour from the managers and to a degree the captains. Had a manager storm into the changing room because he was angry after a comprehensive loss. He had to blame someone and it certainly wasn't his team! He complained about a penalty. Not because it WAS a penalty (I heard them agreeing it was one during the game!) but because the referee had taken a few seconds to blow his whistle!

 

I hold the same view as the Krooninator. As referee I will hold up my hands if I feel I have made a mistake, or explain the reason for my decision ("From my position..."). I just wish teams would do the same sometimes (It is very refreshing on these forums to read match reports from players where they do this actually).

 

For all its bad reputation, I find youth teams and managers have the better behaviour in this area. Even around the U16s and U17s bracket.

[Big J R]

Name them B.J.R.

 

 

As I said Smudgie, dear Chap, 'No Names - No..........

 

(You could of course, PM me !)

[Smudge]

Lets all be honest now,the fault lies firmly at the door of the F.A.They have been milking the Cow for years,bit like Governments make out they really care when they do not.Respect looks good on paper,but if it was backed by hard cash to the lower reaches of the Football Pyramid,Refereeing Standards would improve.Another side to the story is the amount of travelling Officials have to do,spoke to one the other day had to do a 60 mile Round trip,that including the game,consumed 5 hrs of his time,all for £33,where is the Minimum Wage when you need it.Lets have a National No Moaning Day for Refs.

 

 

[Big J R]

Lets all be honest now,the fault lies firmly at the door of the F.A.They have been milking the Cow for years,bit like Governments make out they really care when they do not.Respect looks good on paper,but if it was backed by hard cash to the lower reaches of the Football Pyramid,Refereeing Standards would improve.Another side to the story is the amount of travelling Officials have to do,spoke to one the other day had to do a 60 mile Round trip,that including the game,consumed 5 hrs of his time,all for £33,where is the Minimum Wage when you need it.Lets have a National No Moaning Day for Refs.

 

 

I quite agree, but it's the home-side that pays the Officials.

 

When you look at some of the 'gates' being recorded in the CCL this season, you quickly realise the 'take' doesn't even cover the Officials costs !

[Terrence Collina]

in todays game I did a better job of explaining some of the refs decisions that he did.

 

Unfortunately with the assistant referees there is no happy medium - either they are too busy, or just want to flag for offsides and ball in and out of play. Today, free kick given to Horley on the touchline in front of the assistant, assistant didn't flag to 'assist' the referee. Then, the Horley player moved the ball 10 yards forward and 5/7 yards infield, and neither the referee nor 'assistant' told the ball to be moved back to where is should be. Everyone takes a yard or 2 fine, but this was silly.

 

I put assistant in quotes becasue a few years back they had their title changed from Linesman to Assistant Referee to assist the referee, but too many don't.

[chessy boy]

I have to say the amount of refs that simply are not willing to talk to players at the moment is amazing i can understand it when the tone is wrong from the player or it is constant but as often happens players are shut down far to early by refs which leads to a them and us scenario again.

 

A clearer picture of what happens on the field of play is needed. We had an instance in front of our dugout in the game vs Chertsey on saturday two players came together (not in a romantic sense!) followed by some handbags and some verbal one of those players was on a yellow card at the time, after the situation had calmed down the referee calls two players in and without speaking to his assistant who was 3 feet away from it maximum, issues two yellows. The ref goes to restart the game and the assistant has said nothing as he says the ref is dealing with it, after some objections by one bench he decides to raise the flag and tell the ref that he has booked the wrong player and the man in quiestion has done nothing wrong and in fact the player he really wanted was pointed out (this player is already on a yellow) so the ref looks at his book looks at us and simply explains it all by saying i booked that one for something else lets play!.

 

I dont want to get players sent off and i say that honestly but why not use all the tools provided to do the job and speak to the assistant before making any decision. It happens far to much one incident lost him all respect in the ground and it showed, we had a full volume F__k off aimed at him from 35 yards away by a defender who is about 3 yards from the crowd women children included i was approached by an old couple with grandchildren there who left the ground because of it they were shocked by the aggression of it. The man in the middle does nothing only 3 weeks after we had a player dismissed at Hanworth Villa for saying within earshot we are playing like a bag of s--t at not even a quarter of that volume.

 

The long and short of it is tell us what is acceptable and stick to it.

 

Blaming referees is a losers excuse and i support you guys to the hilt but try to meet us halfway pleeeeease !

[Krooner]

I will try Chessy as long as you promise next time you ask a question that you actually listen to the answer

[Footy Mad]

I will try Chessy as long as you promise next time you ask a question that you actually listen to the answer

 

 

Made me smile Kroons. I had an instance a few weeks ago when a manager approached me after the game and said he wanted to ask me a question. Three times I tried to answer his question but each time he interrupted me so I walked away and left him even more angry than he was before!!

[Smudge]

What was his Question B.J.R.