Pitches and Postponements

[Krooner]

Been looking around a few forums and have noticed a huge increase in moans about Refs calling games off (including our own VP

 

I have found this very interesting. Games are being called off and the refs are getting grief cos everyone else thinks it is unplayable. 4 months ago the same state of pitch meant the groundsman was bellowing saying if the game is played it will ruin the pitch for months !!! (Bedfont Sports being a good example where it did)

 

So with Refs so worried about people getting hurt and them getting the blame perhaps we need to look at a change within certain league rules (Prob no higher than CCL TBH due to travelling)

 

1 - Perhaps clubs have to agree to get a ref in to do an inspection before the game and not just on the say so of the home club.

 

2 - If a referee is in doubt but both clubs want to play then the game should go ahead but with something noted on the teamsheet and signed by both clubs.

 

Be really interested in all views on this from players, admin, fans, neutrals, other refs and Smudge

[Mewcenary]

Comes down to our 'blame and sue' culture, unfortunately. What if both club managers sign, but several players are unhappy about the decision... and one of them snaps their leg as a result of the conditions?

 

The lawyers will have a field day on that... "But the qualified referee said it was unsafe to play on".

[Smudge]

Kroons was under the impression that Clubs cannot call games Off,unless an Official Referee has Inspected the Pitch.Not like a few years back when if you were short of a few Players,The Groundsman called games off.Your 2nd point makes sense, but what happens if the Officials get injured,can the Officials then sue the Clubs or Players,because in their opinion the Ground was unfit for Play.Can anyone remember anyone suing anyone in a Football related matter,I can't.The only way I see is in moving the Football season Forward,everything else has changed in this Country,and moved with the times,so why not Football.

[Smudge]

How about this for a scenario Ref says pitch is fit for Play,many players are unhappy and don't want to play.Can they refuse to play without redress from the League,I think the answer is No.One of the Players then gets injured and as he was unhappy about Playing,can he take action against anyone.

 

 

[Guvnor No1]

From what I gather Bedfont Sports is fine they could of played quite a few times when called off the problem has been the new flood lights, when it rains it floods all the 4 posts where they have dug down......what a nightmare

[Krooner]

Fair does Guv. Not a good example then

[Chris Clapham]

RPV v Guildford OFF tonight

[Big J R]

As usual, a very interesting point raised by our leader, and I whole-heartedly agree with his thoughts..

 

At Meadowbank, we are lucky in having a 'local' referee who meets all the criteria for early pitch inspections, and he is more than happy to oblige for both DFC and Bookham. We at DFC would NEVER call a game off without an official inspection.

 

There are, as mentioned two main aspects to the problem.

 

1)... and probably the most important, Health and Safety.

 

2)... preserving the state of the pitch, as it is at the point of inspection. One hard game on an 'iffy' pitch can ruin it for days. Not a good idea where a ground-share is involved, and before you all start decrying ground-share, remember, many clubs use their pitch for reserve games, and Under 18's games.

 

At the end of the day, NO-ONE can control the weather, and to the best of my knowledge, neither God, nor Allah are registered League referee's.

 

Q.E.D.

 

:coffee (2):

Edited March 4, 2010 by Big J R

[VPCTFC]

Mewcenery - you've fallen into the trap that a lot of refs fall into, along with coppers - you think you've got more powers than you have.

A couple of clubs have questioned the FA about this point, asking for legal advice. Who is responsible in law? Whenever there have been cases in the courts it's players and clubs (as the employer) that've been sued for tackles that've ended careers and only when negligence can be proved. As far as I know there isn't a single case of a ref ever being sued in any sport for an injury that's happened except for when they haven't applied the laws correctly.

The FA don't seem to know if clubs are the employers of referees or whether the FA are. Maybe they're self-employed.

This needs to be sorted out so we all know where we stand.

It's all very well clubs having to make sure they have insurance and pay all their taxes, isn't it about time refs did the same?

 

Regarding the original post and groundmen moaning - that is a valid point, especially early in the season but it's now March so what are clubs saving the pitch for?

And even the youth leagues have reminded clubs that all games must be called off by a qualified ref. I didn't think it was possible these days for a groundsman to call it off at any level unless it's a council pitch.

Edited March 5, 2010 by VPCTFC

[Krooner]

There are a lot of things that haven't happened yet but we are all scared they will !!!

 

And here is a first that we all probably thought would be difficult to prove.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/coventry_warwickshire/8550455.stm

[Terrence Collina]

Thats what happened to me when I broke my leg, titanium rod, 4 bolts and leg cut open to relive swelling. Could only stitch one of the splits up and had to have a skin graft on the other one. If I was an outfield player I would have had to stop playing.

[Big J R]

This thread on another Forum posted by Ian might make interesting reading, if you've got a few spare minutes.

 

http://www.nonleague.co.uk/forum/topic/142702-pitches-fit-or-unfit-what-are-your-thoughts/

 

This isn't a subject that is going to 'go-away', unless we get seasons and seasons of exceptionally GOOD weather.

[Smudge]

This thread on another Forum posted by Ian might make interesting reading, if you've got a few spare minutes.

 

http://www.fansfocus...-your-thoughts/

 

This isn't a subject that is going to 'go-away', unless we get seasons and seasons of exceptionally GOOD weather.

 

 

Excellent read,In the hands of the F.A.so sure to be sorted by 2020.But do not hold your breath.

[VPCTFC]

Perhaps football should take a tip (!) from horse racing and bring in instruments that measure the going.

Course going used to be done with the clerk of the course and his trusty walking stick ambling around and giving his opinion, now it's gone all high tech.

 

There are several objective methods available that allow experienced and inexperienced users to determine the level of going. These include, amongst others, the Penetrometer, the Clegg Impact Hammer, the Clegg Shear Tester and the GoingStick.

 

http://www.pitchcare.com/magazine/the-going-stick.html

 

So come on clubs and refs - get yer Penetrometers out for the lads!

The FA can set a level of hardness beyond which games should be postponed. It may take five minutes longer to do a few measurements around the pitch but at least it'll be the same everywhere which is basically all we're asking for.

[Big J R]

I'm sure 'Our Leader' has enough to worry about without carrying a boot full of scientific instruments with him.

[Big J R]

I've just heard from staff already down at Meadowbank.

 

The pitch looks good apart from one or two slightly damp areas, (no funny comments, perleeez !), so lets hope the match referee is happy with it.

 

Yes, I'll be there as usual, so come and say 'hallo' if your making the trip over from Krooner Park.

 

I am reliably informed that extra burgers will NOT be required, as a certain person is officiating elsewhere today !

Edited March 6, 2010 by Big J R