It's True, Honest! (one for AFF?)

[ESG]

There was no escaping the propaganda as war raged in The Gulf. Whilst all reports being sent out from Iraq by our own reporters were under scrutiny by the Iraqi authorities, so we're told, obviously reports that were reported to us by our own media services were not screened by our own censors? Amazingly, Blair was sussed as merely speculating, or lying, however you want to view it, with regards to statements he made during the conflict. Like it or not, lying is one thing that governments do well.

 

Every time Saddam appeared on screen that familiar reminder that as to exactly which one of the several Saddam Hussein look-a-likes should be taking the credit wasn't 'quite clear'. After all, only our enemies lie don't they? The KGB used to murder its own people to keep the status quo, we would never do that. And that was it, we could do no wrong. Anyone who thought that this war was over the imperial interests of the US and UK was branded a 'conspiracy nut', whereas anyone who refused to believe that those tv images of Hussein during the war were, in fact, look-a-likes and not the man himself were presented as naive. Amazingly, that's how many dim fuchers saw it. So top marks to those who planned it that way.

 

30 years ago in Chile a coup was carried out against a democratically elected government which resulted in the murder of many under orders from General Augusto Pinochet. A little while back, the former dictator was in a situation which could have saw the UK government hand him over to the Spanish authorities to answer charges concerning violation of human rights with murder and torture. However, the government which now takes human rights so seriously as to constantly remind the UK public of the 'former' Iraq's lack of 'em did not see things that way when Pinochet was in their hands and could have been dealt with accordingly. Instead they let him go and he shuffled frailly to his awaiting aircraft in the UK and on touching down at Santiago airport perfected a somersault and forward roll worthy of anything Nadia Comaneci could offer at gold level.

 

So, it's worth remembering that not everything you hear is kosher. And our crowd have as much reason to lie as most. Most disgracefully is what happens when democracy is not quite going as planned. World opinion was in a majority against the war, and there was much anti-war feeling in the UK. Labour MP George Galloway became one of those who was not afraid to provide a voice to the anti-war movement. The media has since slurred him and no doubt with a push from more sinister forces. Blair and his cronies intend to destroy George Galloway for nothing more than exercising a democratic right to oppose military action in the region. It would appear that democracy is fine, but not in the ranks of New Labour.

 

[AFF]

Moi?

 

Hi ESG.

 

Sad, but absolutely true. Those against the war had many different reasons for their opposition. It was frustrating then, as now, that those in support of the invasion of Iraq would acknowledge not the slightest doubt that Saddam had Weapons of Mass Distraction; not for a moment did they accept the immorality of this particular war.

 

One of the points made by some when the Allies were gathering in Kuwait was "Have you given a moments thought to what happens after the glorious victory?". Frighteningly, amazingly, the answer from the lunatics appears to have been "No". The start of the rest is on the T.V. screens most evenings.

 

Back to your point, ESG. The first casualty of war is, indeed, truth, And you can't always rely upon the guys in the white hats.

 

 

[pabird]

Although I suspect we spend our thinking time on differing sides of the political spectrum I agree with circa 99.9% of all you have said

As a nominal Hawk I spent my time prior to our invasion warning against trust in our Tony in matters as serious as war

Where I disagree is in giving any credibility to Mr, Galloway, This with other labour MPs was photographed on a Russian tank durin the Afgan set to and if Tony is see through then George could get under skirting boards wearing a top hat

[AFF]

Hi pabird.

 

As the end of my youth begins to come into distant view on the far horizon, I find myself beginning to turn a shade of light pink, in the political sense, of course. [That probably makes me a 21st Century Conservative!]

[pabird]

According to Winstone you are turning the wrong colour

His feelings went something like this

 

"Any man who does not vote labour in his twenties has no heart but

Any man who does not vote conservative in his thirties has no brain"

 

This present new labour mob appear to prove Winnie right again

Great man the Winnie

[EFM's Librarian]

George Galloway - Two of the three main claims against him have now been proven to be absoutely made-up. The third is impossible for him to disprove. His detractors claim he took money from Iraq and hid it in a secret account. He can't prove that he didn't do this, because they keep saying, 'its in a scret account'.

 

Did anyone else hear him on 'On the ropes' a couple of weeks ago? Sounds like a perfectly reasonable chap to me. Of course none of the newspapers have made much of an issue of the fact the allegations against him from the 'Christian Science Monitor' have been completely disproved. But they were all happy to print the allegations at the time. I hate the media <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[pabird]

See your point but no one made up the picture of him on the Russian tank

[AFF]

So Tone is in the States and gets a standing ovation when he says "Even if there are no Weapons of Mass Distraction, we rid the world of a very bad man, and that's good and I'm pleased we went in there and caused the mayhem that we did and the world's a better place for it and I would do the same again tomorrow and [pass me an onion someone] I hold my head up high".

 

That's not someone declaring their moral principles, that's someone fighting to save his political skin. And, hopefully losing the battle.

 

And he gets a standing ovation for that stuff?

 

 

[pabird]

More like 17no standing ovations, The yanks love our Tony

 

There are very good reasons for maintaining the special USA/UK relationship

 

So lets be really good to our USA cousins and export Tony to them with the only proviso being he never sets foot in this country again

[ESG]

hey, you guys speaka lotta sense

nowt wrong with being photographed on a tank

thiink i have one of me on SFA 's one

 

the jury's out regards winston wasnt it his policy that set up the iraq situation in the first place?

as for 'Christian Science Monitor'

no secret that when you have 2 god fearing religious zealots in high office there is war (a quote from some Manc)

 

[Colin Zeal EFM]

Read this is my newspaper of choice this morning...

 

ON December 26, 1941, three weeks after Pearl Harbor, Winston Churchill stood before Congress.

 

He said to the American people: “The forces ranged against us are enormous. They are bitter, they are ruthless.”

 

And he spoke of his hope that the “British and American peoples will, for their own safety and for the good of all, walk together in majesty, in justice and in peace.”

 

Nearly 62 years later Tony Blair walks in Churchill’s footsteps.

 

Speaking of the outrage of September 11, 2001, he warns of “a virus of terrorism” that threatens the free world.

 

And to the sound of America’s cheers he promises: “You are not going to be alone. We will be with you in this fight for liberty.”

 

The lessons of history are that threats to freedom remain unchanged — and that your old friends are your best friends.

 

Tony Blair has grasped those lessons. He may not yet be another Churchill. But he’s made a good start.

 

 

[ESG]

Blur=Churchill

 

that is taking the pi$$ in any1s language

a mere puppet of Murdoch

[Colin Zeal EFM]

I'm just the messenger!! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

 

 

[ESG]

i know <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

just such an incredulous comparison

[ESG]

should have added hows the old head this morniung?

[Colin Zeal EFM]

Much better than yesterday, thanks!!

 

 

[pabird]

I promise there are very few rewards in advancing years

How!ever experience of moments and events that really move the individual and the nation as one are there to be recalled

Winstone made his speaches during the war and the nation held its breath absorbing every word

During his nation wide speaches the streets were empty and silent

Just the one individual held the nation spellbound, gave them hope and eventually despite all the errors gave them freedom

Of course he made major [****!!****]-ups,of course some of his decisions led to many un-needed deaths

But he dealt across a huge spectrum of events, he was the great war leader and he achieved

The other individual we refer to is not fit to lace the mans boots

 

[EFM The Firm, The Voice]

Has anyone heard todays news Dr Kelly went missing last night and now a body has been found. Oh dear! <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[CANV EFM]

i always found churchills decision to blow the crap out of the french fleet whilst it was in harbour very amusing

[pabird]

And forward looking!