Akmal Shaikh

[Rhodes]

I see that the 'British' man, Akmal Shaikh from Kentish Town, found guilty as charged of smuggling drugs to the value of 250k into China was rightly executed in the early hours of this morning (our time). China have extremely strict laws on drug trafficking and our Government could do a lot worse than take a leaf out of the Chinese book, Shaikh was detained in 2007 after he was found to have a horrific 4kg of heroin in his possession when his luggage was scanned having flown into the Northwest City of Urumqi on 12 September 2007, presumably to avoid detection at a larger airport. Incredibly Shaikh, 53, who was married to an Englishwoman and had five children, denied having any knowledge whatsoever of the drugs and his defence team laughably argued that he was duped into carrying a suitcase that didn’t belong to him by a criminal gang whilst in Poland who told him that he would, wait for it, be made a popstar in China if he transported the suitcase.

Do any members have a view, surprisingly It has been 50 years since a European Union citizen has been executed in China.

[Big J R]

I totally agree with you Rhodesy.

 

'When in Rome' , and all that !

 

I was reading in yesterdays Mail about how the execution by shooting is carried out.

 

Apparently, the condemmed is told to kneel, head forward with mouth wide open.

 

A single bullet is fired from behind into the nape of the neck, which kills instantly and then exits through the open mouth.

 

Subsequently, the eyes and face are undamaged allowing the retina's/cornea's to be immediately harvested, along with other body organs for transplant !

[Rhodes]

Big JR - Strangely enough that's exactly how I thought Shaikh had been unceremoniously executed earlier today however apparently it was by the far more humanitarian method of lethal injection so Britain should actually be thanking the Chinese.

The Chinese Embassy in London helpully issued a statement, following Shaikh's death, and stated that he had no previous medical record of mental illness whatsoever and that his rights and interests had been properly respected. The Statement went on to say that the grave concerns of the British were duly noted and taken fully into consideration by the Chinese Judicial authorities, out of humanitarian consideration visas were granted to two cousins of Mr Shaikh on Boxing Day and they were given access to meeting him in prison. The statement concluded that Mr Shaikh was convicted of extremely serious drug trafficking, the amount of heroin he brought into China was 4,030g and enough to cause 26,800 deaths threatening numerous unsuspecting families. The legal structures of China and the UK may be different but it should not stand in the way of enhancing our bilateral relations on the basis of mutual respect.

I really don't know what all the fuss is about, it's surely an open and shut case.

[Big J R]

I remember reading recently that China were introducing lethal injection as an alternative to execution by shooting. Apparently, they have commissioned some mobile vans that can travel between prisons to carry out the sentence. Adds a whole new meaning to the word 'Ambulance' !

 

Seeing as how the trade in 'donated' organs from condemmed felons in China is rife, I was wondering if maybe execution by lethal injection might not damage the organs in question !

 

Incidently, I also read that the relatives of the executed in China have absolutely NO rights to their remains, and in fact, could be charged the fee for the execution.

[Rhodes]

Big JR - You certainly appear to know your onions as Shaikh's unceremonious execution this morning has coincided perfectly with China's plans that by the end of 2009 all criminals sentenced to death will receive a lethal injection as opposed to being executed by gunshot as was previously the case. Lethal injection was made legal in China in 1997 when the Country's Criminal Procedure Law was amended to provide an alternative method of execution, it was considered to be cleaner, safer, convenient and far more humane, reducing criminals, such as Akmal Shaikh, fear and pain compared with gunshot execution, it is nicely complete within a few minutes, without any twitches or harrowing facial changes.

Furthermore a lethal injection site has been especially built about 20km northwest of Beijing which houses the majority of the City's condemned prisoners, the new state of the art site is equipped with rooms for the executions containing luxurious execution beds with injection pump and disinfection facilities, in addition there is a comfortable observation room as well as body storage facilities. China have also recently started training their Judicial Police who deliver the prisoners to the execution site and administer the injections, experienced medical staff are on standby and supervise the use of any drugs as well as monitor, confirm and record the deaths.

[Big J R]

Maybe the Chinese are trying to emulate the Americans.

 

I've since learnt that death by lethal injection speeds up the process for the removal of harvested body organs. Apparently, it is done immediately the attending doctor has confirmed that death has occured - At present in specially adapted vehicles about the size of a long wheel-based transit !

[Rhodes]

Big JR- I see that Amnesty International were unsurprisingly appalled by news that Akmal Shaikh was executed at 02:30 GMT on 29 December, despite serious concerns about his mental health. Their Asia Programme Director Sam Zarifi said "Akmal Shaikh's execution highlights the injustice and inhumanity of the death penalty, particularly as it is implemented in China, Mr. Shaikh's treatment seems consistent with what we know from other cases for example a short, almost perfunctory trial, where not all the evidence was presented and investigated and the death penalty applied to a non-violent crime. Under International human rights law, as well Chinese law, a defendant's mental health can and should be taken into account and it doesn't seem that in this case the Chinese authorities did so. It's simply not enough for the Chinese authorities to say 'we did the right thing, trust us'. Now, there can be no reassessment of evidence, no reprieve after a man's life has been taken."

That's all well and good but at the end of the day it is well known that China have extremely strict laws on drug trafficking and Mr Shaikh was found guilty as charged and convicted of an extremely serious office, the amount of heroin he brought into China was an incredible 4,030g, enough to cause 26,800 deaths threatening numerous unsuspecting families.

[Big J R]

I think thre even doubts about if he even had mental problems.

 

At best, he might have been diagnosed as bi-polar, which would not be a defence in this country, unlike schizophrenia

[Rhodes]

Big JR - Obviously Shaikh's supporters are bound to say that he was suffering from mental health problems, however at the end of the day he was a bankrupt with a chequered financial history of dubious business conduct and with an obsession for easy money. Shaikh had a tangled personal life with a record as long as your arm of infidelity and sexual harassment, he was once fined £10,000 for hounding a woman he had recruited as his Secretary and his former first wife refused to speak on his behalf. I think that says it all, there is nothing barbaric about China's death penalty, the real barbarism lies in refusing to punish criminals as is the case in this Country.

[Big J R]

Quite so

 

Q.E.D.

[Loose]

I absolutely agree with the sentiments expressed here. If only Britain had such a robust approach when dealing with drug dealers and traffickers who after all are the scum of the earth. Where I feel a bit unhappy is that of course you need to temper justice for any who are mentally sub-normal or disabled, exhausting every possible investigation before shooting the thoroughly guilty.

 

Of course, China's record on Human Rights is second to none.

[Rhodes]

Where I feel a bit unhappy is that of course you need to temper justice for any who are mentally sub-normal or disabled, exhausting every possible investigation before shooting the thoroughly guilty.

Agreed, however Shaikh had no previous medical record of any mental illness whatsoever, furthermore his rights and interests had been properly respected by the Chinese.

[Loose]

 

Agreed, however Shaikh had no previous medical record of any mental illness whatsoever, furthermore his rights and interests had been properly respected by the Chinese.

Well I can't begin to tell you how much happier it makes me to hear that from you and of course as I said China have a record to be proud of in protecting individuals Human Rights.

 

I want you to know that if you ever commit a series of bizarre acts and end up on Death Row in China I'll be the first to support their stance in any decision.

 

I can't help feeling sorry for Akmal's family, they deserve some consideration.

[Rhodes]

I can't help feeling sorry for Akmal's family, they deserve some consideration.

Loosely - I'm afraid that I beg to differ and strongly believe that Shaikh deserved everything that came his way at 02:30 GMT on 29 December, I only wish I had been there to administer the lethal injection myself. In China, the death penalty can be invoked against anyone carrying more than 50g of drugs and that is the reason why China has nothing like the drug problem that we have in this Country, dealers and abusers know full well that they will be looking down the barrel of a gun if they are caught.

It is the height of hypocrisy for the Government, as well as the Human Rights brigade, to lecture China when our own strategy has failed so disastrously. As you know our society is awash with drugs thanks to the climate of institutionalised leniency in the Courts which has much to do with gun and knife crime, street violence, robbery and family breakdown. Drug dealers and users conduct their affairs knowing they have absolutely nothing to fear from the Police or the Courts, the drug fuelled, crime ridden, welfare dependent, fear filled inner city housing estates in Britain today are far more savage than any place of execution in China for a shameless trafficker such as evil Akmal Shaikh.

[Loose]

But of course Rhodes, I completely agree with you. In fact as I said, if it were you at some point in the future who had bizarrely after a lifetime of managing to mask some of the more obvious behavioural and psychiatric issues ended up in Akmal's situation I'd go further and argue that a quick death was not actually punishment enough and be more than happy if China showed some real balls in this issue and had you flogged in every town and city around the country before enjoying that sudden and hopefully to you unexpected lethal injection. All I'm saying is that it would be a hard faced, cold souled w@nker who did not have some sympathy for a husbandless wife, a brotherless sister or some fatherless children grieving.

 

I'm in complete accord with you on this namby pamby, iffy whiffy, wishy washy Human Rights "Brigade" as you call them. There is much to admire about China's completely supreme approach to looking after the individual. We'd have had very few problems in this country during the last 50 or 60 years if we'd followed China's lead in such areas as enforced migration and at the same time restriction of workers movements. I don't like to complain about some of these northerners and scots not to mention the irish feeling free to move south and take all our jobs and housing I can tell you, oh yes, restricting their movements would have been the way to go.

 

I can't quite believe that you haven't lauded as do I China's up until recently law against having more than one child. Of course, in practice, in the country where families did actually more often than not have on average 2.5 children the Chinese authorities tended to turn a blind eye but rigidly enforced the system in urban centres and quite rightly in my opinion caused an only estimated minimum of 250 million abortions and an unknown number of female baby "mercy killings". To some of the softy liberal Human Right "Brigade" they'd find it very unsatisfactory that there is now a gender imbalance in the ratio of male to female population. Of course China has shown their human side in an approach to the "problem" and now allow couples to have 2 children. That's forward thinking alright and I say jolly well done. Did anyone ever suggest to you and your partner that having 8 children was being a bit over the top? I only wish they had.

 

What is wrong with this country is that we let too many people believe that they have a right to have a say. Did you know that after China made an amendment to their own constitution stating that they respect and preserve human rights? It's the thin end of the wedge I must say but running up to the 2008 staging of the Olympic Games I remeber hearing that out of 77 applications for groups to hold protests 74 were withdrawn, 2 were suspended and one was "vetoed" - whatever that means. I can't praise the Chinese Authorities enough for their control in this instance, some say that the 74 withdrawn applications followed the sentancing to re-education through labour of two elderly chinese women for having the affrontery for applying for a permit for some nefarious purpose. If only our country would learn a lesson from these people we'd have none of these so called rights to protest with destruction caused by anti capitalists, pensioners protesting about visiting emperors and their cries for compensation, gay parades or that dozy Joanna Lumley and a handful of old soldiers roaming Downing Street. Crying shame.

 

Oh I know that you and I are in complete agreement on this issue Rhodesy. I won't bother mentioning campaigners totally unjustified and trumped up charges of China's completely appropriate handling of matters such as "Religious Freedom", that Tibet "Farce", the Falun Gong, "Political Freedom" - for gawds sake!! and the so called "Discrimination of Ethnic Minorities". Let's stick to this nonsense of people claiming that China's judiciary is ruled by the Political Party, that these pansy "Human Rights Brigadist" t0ssers think that criminals shouldn't be held in prison without ever even being charged or needing more than a week to prepare their own cases before coming eventualy if at all to trial or wanting more than a couple of days to appeal death sentances. Just causing needless delay I say. Lets not mention these outrageous comparisons that put China at the top of the list for numbers of executions for up to 64 crimes ranging from embezzlement through tax fraud to murder because these people clearly don't know a forward thinking justice system when they see it. I firmly believe that if we ourselves could just take a step in the right direction with perhaps public birchings and debtors prisons we could see ourselves back to the heady days of finding a fairly largish island to transport our criminal fraternity to. Oh, bring back those days! We'd see a quick end to shop lifting thats for sure.

 

Drug dealers? Shoot them I say. China knows what it's doing and yes, we could learn a quick bloody lesson. Hang them all, narcotic death dealing drug traffickers? Sodding counterfeit pharmaceutical pushers? Get to grips with this issue Britain and then we'd get those inner city ghettoes under control again, make them fit for humans to live in. Get some balls British Politicians and judges and execute these scum.

 

Some of the happy clappy liberal Human Rights Brigade have even accused China of being responsible for up to about 48% of the worlds production of counterfeit drugs. W@nkers!

 

BTW Cliffy, we never got to the bottom of why you were wandering around London with a carrier bagful of Viagra. Was it legit? Just say, you know I'll take your word for it. You and I have the same belief system.

Edited January 7, 2010 by loose

[Rhodes]

Loosely - When you originally posted on this thread on Sunday, having no doubt happened upon it by accident, I thought you were in full agreement of the joyous execution of Akmal Shaikh, however now I'm not so sure. You come across as an intelligent well educated individual so surely you are vehemently against drug pedalling which, had you forgotten, was Shaikh's heinous crime for which he was rightly found guilty and executed by the Chinese authorities. You seem to have gone off on a tangent and are totally missing the point, I really cannot praise the Chinese Authorities enough for the way they have stood their ground and handled this case. Just to reiterate that Akmal Shaikh's rights and interests had been properly respected by the Chinese at all times since his arrest at Urumqi Airport in 2007, they even allowed his two cousins to visit him before the execution and he was buried in a Muslim Cemetary in Urumqi following a funeral which took place before sundown in accordance with Muslim practice. I ask you, what more do you want for a man with tenuous links with Britain which hardly justified the energy our Government spent on the case, Shaikh was born in Pakistan, spent much of his adult life in the US and Poland of all places before going on his criminal odyssey to China. In summary the British Government, with it's prattle about Human Rights, likes to think that a refusal to use capital punishment is a badge of a civilised society, the truth is the willingness to execute dangerous criminals such as Akmal Shaikh is a sign of compassion, it means a Government is determined to protect its people including the vulnerable and maintain morality.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Rhodes

[Loose]

agreement of the joyous execution of Akmal Shaikh, blah blah blah blah etc etc stc and maintain morality.

But Rhodes, as I've said, you and I are on the same page here. I'm in complete agreement with you.

 

Expressing the execution of a fellow human being as "joyous" only makes me want to see you in government. I could so easily see you bringing the judiciary in line with political expediency and maintaining "morality" for the vulnerable in the same way as China does so humanely and sympathetically shows the values of a simple man concerned for protecting the majority and of course bringing to bear the full force of your righteous intellectual power. It almost makes me want to come at the mere idea. Rhodes for the Home Office at the very least!

 

We simply have to close our ears to these pathetic cries of wet Human Rights campaigners and stupid lawyers with their falsehoods about how defendants in the Chinese Criminal System not being allowed to question prosecution witnesses, not being allowed knowledge of their accusers or sight of any evidence against them. It's got to be the hugest load of - well I can't swear on here - but - oh - load of hairy arsed airy fairy b0ll0cks you could contemplate.

 

I'm as convinced as can be possible by your argument that poor old Akmal had every chance and was accorded the best defence that the lauded Chinese Justice System allowed. Like you, I almost feel that they went too far by spoiling him with a visit from his relatives. Still, I suppose they have to show a small amount of empathy, and jolly good show really. Oh yes, I'm almost certainly convinced given as I said before with China's whiter than white record on Human Rights and their determination to "respect and preserve human rights" that cracking down on these death dealers leads the way, even if there might be some mental health issues vaguely wandering around the situation.

 

I firmly believe that it's just outrageous propaganda for critics of China's record and approach to dealing with the whole pharmaceutical and narcotics counterfeit industry that these mouthpieces against the vulnerable claim that China is responsible for producing that (approx.) 48% of counterfeit pharmaceuticals including anti-malarial, HIV treatments through to dysfunctional erection problem remedies which include toxins and unknown ingredients responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands. Obvious poppycock and a slur on China's crackdown on drug criminals.

 

BTW, you or your customers were fine after using that load of viagra weren't you?

 

Anyway, let me know when you need a bit of support on the political campaign won't you? You can count on me.

Edited January 7, 2010 by loose

[Rhodes]

Expressing the execution of a fellow human being as "joyous" only makes me want to see you in government.

Loosely - I still can't fathom out whether your posts are tongue in cheek or serious however I purposely used the word 'joyous' to describe Shaikh's execution, as in joyous occasion, as that is exactly what it was. You don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that Akmal Shaikh was a drug trafficker and according to Chinese law he was found guilty and sentenced to death, end of, I'm a firm believer that in this World 'you pays your money and you takes your choice', Shaikh chose to bring a huge amount of heroin into China knowing the consequences should he be caught and deservedly paid for it with his life.

If, in the unlikely event, your posts are tongue in cheek and you are not in support of the strict but fair Chinese Judicial system let me just point out that in contrast to China our criminal justice system no longer treats offending seriously, criminals walk free, community punishments are meaningless, and jail sentences, even for murder, are derisory. Ordinary law abiding citizens are constantly bullied through a plethora of bureaucratic regulations, yet violence, burglary, theft and drug abuse carry no consequences. One key factor behind Britain's reluctance to uphold the law is the idiotic belief that criminals are really the victims of society, motivated only by social disadvantage or mental health problems and that they need support not punishment. We can see this perfectly in the case of Shaikh, campaigners on his behalf, as well as the Human Rights brigade, claim he was suffering from mental illness at the time of his heinous crime and so should be let off with a slap on the wrist. Such excuse making is absurd as his record of infidelity, sexual harrassment and dubious business conduct suggest the man was amoral, selfish and irresponsible, China's no nonsense approach is second to none and should be applauded.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Rhodes

[Loose]

I still can't fathom out whether your posts are tongue in cheek

Tongue in cheek? You can't fathom? No Rhodesy, it takes a man of a certain stature to so boldly celebrate another being's loss to the human race whilst backing it up with such deep philosophical argument and I congratulate you for managing it so well. Further proof of your humanity is not required, oh no, you've sold your case well there alright.

 

I could go on all day and all night about the Tariff System used by our Judiciary and how out of touch with British Society they are but comparing it with the Mighty Chinese Justice System and their swift and sure retribution tempered with their expediency of bypassing legal recourse and sentancing if the political authorities are sure they've got the right man so to speak, well it's comparing a young vibrant 60 year old building with one thats starting to go off the boil at a thousand years old. No, you'll lose me if we start to go off at oblique angles like that Rhodesy. You won't get me criticising a system that makes sure that no-one goes unpunished whether it be perpetrator, family, victim or the society around it in the certain justification of ensuring that justice is being done politically.

 

Tip to the wise Rhodesy, and I'm sure you'll know this and I'm preaching to the choir here but if you plan to be successful in your political career which I sincerely look forward to enjoying, carry on keeping it simple. I already know that you've got what it takes to compare with such giants as Blunkett and Straw, maybe a bit of the Jonathan Aitkins and the mighty sword etc etc. You'd see them all off.

 

BTW, did you ever actually inhale that viagra?

[Rhodes]

The last time I looked this thread had been closed and I couldn't quite work out why.

I haven't really got much more to add and can only reiterate that Loosely has totally missed the point of this thread with his ramblings. At the end of the day Akmal Shaikh was rightly convicted in a Chinese Court of law for drug trafficking, sentenced to death and finally put to death at 02:30 GMT on 29 December. I had been following the case closely, hence this thread, and I remember waking up that morning, switching on the radio next to my bed and breathing a huge sigh of relief when I heard the news, Shaikh got what was coming to him and I only wish that we in this once fine Country of ours possessed the moral clarity or strength of purpose to deal ruthlessly with drug peddlers like him as well as other enemies of our society.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Rhodes