IRAQ.

[pabird]

Over sensible and over truthful I fear Canv

 

[Colin Zeal EFM]

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in terms of the best long term outcome from a crap situation i would say i back what has been done..and if its 75 per cent as sucessful as they hope then 20 years from now most people will be happy with that outcome..
you cant claim it as a moral war.. but its itentions (motivated for whatever reasons) will more likely result in a better outcome than years of pussyfooting around and throwing aid at it ..

First bit of common sense in this entire thread - can't see GHA having any of it though. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[CANV EFM]

if they turn into a new south africa with a good rugby team and great hotels then GHA will love it!

[pabird]

When you work in the Arab states you soon realise soccer is the national game but Rugby? I think West Ham will win the premiership before that happens

[GHA EFM]

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I think you'll find, GHA, that AFF was making a 'funny' reference to George Bush, actually.

I think you’ll find that AFF was making a ‘funny’ reference to the Weapons of Mass Distraction (or lack of them), in the initial post as well. However, you chose to go for the ‘blown to pieces’ angle, not the ‘tyrannical dictator’ angle.

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Unfortunately Ben, you can't win with these two. Once AFF and GHA get the bit between their teeth, you just have to let them get on with it.

LOL

You can’t win if you’re in a lose-lose situation, or if you’re in a situation in which you cannot handle yourself. Or, of course, your opponent/s are ‘better’ than you.

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First bit of common sense in this entire thread

Is that including all your posts then? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

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if its 75 per cent as sucessful as they hope then 20 years from now most people will be happy with that outcome..

CANV. You speak some sense. However. Can it not also be argued that most people will not be affected (to a great extent) by the events that have taken place? Most people may be happy within ‘the super-powers.’ But will the nation-states around Iraq be happy? Will Zimbabweans be happy? I could go on.

Afghanistan. Who used that example? Good one, that. I’m told that the first crops planted in Afghanistan after the USA went on a promotional tour there were marijuana crops. Differing views on that subject can mean different things, but how’s Afghanistan getting along now? Have they caught that Osama Bin Laden fella yet? What about Iraq and Saddam Hussein? Got any more Weapons of Mass Distraction to show for their toils?

CANV. I won't delve into your point about aid, because I agree. It was part of one of my exams - is aid a help or hindrance, so I should, in theory, know something about it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[pabird]

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CANV. I won't delve into your point about aid, because I agree. It was part of one of my exams - is aid a help or hindrance, so I should, in theory, know something about it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The only real manner of knowing is to go there and watch the working habits

Aid damages where it stops the native of the receiving country from being industrious and pro-active
Aid in machinery and plant has to be planned years ahead not on a whim
Training is the key issue, College training yes but even the basic hygiene training is essential

We will gain zero until education levels are closer and money in aid is long term planned

[AFF]

Canv.

 

"For Evil to triumph, it takes a few good men to do nothing."

 

If there was, indeed, some 20 year plan to 'westernise' the Middle east, it will have relied upon 'success' at each step. For the people of Iraq to embrace the illusion of freedom that the Lunatics' liberation has brought.

 

However astonishing, I truly believe that Dubbya and Tone have been taken by surprise at the lack of rose petals at the feet of the Marines in Baghdad.

 

There will be very few who consider the chaos, and it's only just beginning, caused in Iraq to be a success.

[CANV EFM]

sucsess will depend on wether they can get the locals to see a increase in their standard of living in time and wether they can make em think they are in control of their own country..you can rely on the americans to make tough work of this but they are in with a shout.. i wouldnt be to surprised about blair being surprised about anything, the man is an [****!!****]...

we cant judge from here whats happening in that country, you will only see the headlines from bagdhad and only bad news and riots will make headlines.. ive seen no news about basra anywhere? has nothing happened or is steady progress too boring to report.. certainly no one seems to have starved yet... as for bahgdad, well in a city of a few million having a few hundred young rioters causing some trouble is hardly big news , you get worse than that in london on a friday night.. i just find the distinct lack of bad news in the overall scheme of things mean that despite everything they arn't doing as bad a job as could be expected.. for sure this period of the operation is probably riskier than the war itself

[GHA EFM]

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has nothing happened or is steady progress too boring to report

I have a theory that when there's not much news, someone decides to report on how Britain is in danger of a terrorist attack etc. Perhaps, indeed, steady progress is too boring to report. No progress would give even less of a segment to report on though, in theory.

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sucsess will depend on wether they can get the locals to see a increase in their standard of living in time

It's like Animal Farm all over again.

[CANV EFM]

always.. look at our current incumbents

[GHA EFM]

Orwell seemed to know what he was on about. Things are getting better, honest. Yeah, right.

 

Someone's suggested to me that 1984's all about aliens, and that there's this one line Winston Smith says when he's being interrogated that shows that it's all about aliens. I'm not too sure, myself.

[c'mon ricay]

Possession of Weapons of Mass Distraction; Under the un-democratic control of the most dangerous man on the planet; major oil-producer.

 

Well on the basis of that time to inavde America.

[CANV EFM]

he blew it with that book by putting a date on it..

i think you can base most human nature on animal farm and lord of the flies.. tho i must confess im not the 'best read' of indivuals

[pabird]

Of course you realise Canv there is a career for a qualified writer doing at least two books in response

BUT lets have a go at a quickie answer

In recent history invasion is the tool of a selective band, Religious fanatics/Socialism/Nazism/Fascism and Americans when they consider their particular view of the world is to be effected or infected (Korea,Vietnam,Iraq and rather abruptly Pearl Harbour)

Defence of the realm being another issue altogether

What you propose is sound but alas we are ruled by men and women of power ambition and even if they set out with your 100% logic in place the power would corrupt

Hitler,Stalin,Blair,Ho Chi Min (or what!ever) Saddam H,etc etc etc all have one single likeness "they are right and their version of right is might" In their opinion education into their way of thinking is the only problem with the world

The answer I believe will take a further two hundred years at least, that being the evolution of man out of the slime to the sophisticated levels of thought and action they believe (wrongly) they have achieved now

 

[CANV EFM]

the eventual overall ageing of an ever more 'developed' world will also have a civilising effect on humankind

[EFM The Firm, The Voice]

I think everyone knows I stand shoulder to shoulder with AFF and GHA on this.

 

Intresting slant on the word continue in a early thread "he can't be allowed to continue to make WMD", to continue something, you must of started it, to which there is no evidence.

 

How is the American Oil Company doing? I believe they are the new owners of most of Iraq's oil wells, Iraq's oil will benifit the Iraq people, whats the bet the USA are taking expenses out!

 

As for 20yrs of evilness by the man Saddam, well he wasn't that evil 10yrs ago when we funded him. And there are plenty of countries with 20yrs of abuse, look at Burma (sorry it's called Mynamar now by the military). As for long ruling evil dictors, Piniciot (the unfit to stand trial uk resident) was installled by the USA.

 

It all sucks, but when your the biggest country in the world, you can do what you like, and when you're ruled by fear you can 'jusify' what you like.

[GHA EFM]

EFMTFTV. Very true. All good points. However. Apart from a select few of us, the only benefit that message has is bringing you more RSI

 

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[CANV EFM]

pinkos

[Colin Zeal EFM]

Yep.