The Title Run-In

[Miller]

Fully understand your comments, and I agree to a certain extent with what you say, but having spoken to people in the past that have been directly affected you can only support them in what they feel. I also do beleive that nothing would come from an enquiry, but the hurt is there as it is felt it was all pushed under the carpet. Unless you are directly affected I feel we on the outside will never feel the pain as those whose lives have been unfortunately impacted forever....nothing sadly will ever, and should ever eradicate those memories.

[Eastside Urchin]

don't get me wrong,if i had lost a family member in such a way i would want answers,but from the outside we can see it from both angles,an enquiry would at best prosecute police forces who in all fairness know they made mistakes,but at the time football fans were treated like animals and because of a small minority that was the way,the police in the 80's had to put up with trouble at most grounds,i think it is unfair to lay the blame completely at their door when there were large numbers of fans who would regularly cause trouble home and away with their clubs.

it is no coincidence that after hillsborough football violence more or less died out in this country apart from the odd incident

[Eastside Urchin]

I take it you read the thread properly lightweight tut tut

[Bitch]

The people need justice.

[Eastside Urchin]

but how do you get it 20 years after the event,the possibility is half of the senior police who were on duty that day are either retired or dead,these are the ones who made crucial decisions.Obviously there were officers there who may of thought they were doing the right thing letting people in the ground,then there was the small matter of thousands of fans without tickets trying to get in the ground.

The whole incident is a mess but it was 20 years ago,the country,football society has moved on.You will never know the full extent of everything that happened,if you have an enquiry you may only ever scratch the surface.

[Bitch]

It's possible. Even 20 years on. So many different angles to look at it. For one example. The inquest was not conducted correctly. And no, it's not too late to rectify.

 

 

 

 

[Eastside Urchin]

too many people are culprible,the police made serious mistakes,the FA should never of allowed stadiums to fall in to such states as hillsborough was (i stood there that season with arsenal,it was a dump).For that volume of fans all trying to get in to one end is a disaster waiting to happen in such a hell hole of an end like the leppings lane end.

I remember standing on the north bank highbury in my youth and watching people fainting,being dragged out every home game due to crowd surges,they were dangerous places,we have learnt from such tragedies,we should of learnt more after heysel

 

By all means have an enquiry but i honestly don't think that 20 years down the line we can learn anything new,we know mistakes were made and nothing is going to bring those that died back,it will just open up fresh wounds and ultimatly could end up with no new answers

[Bitch]

Trouble is, that for the bereaved the wounds are still open. Only a sense of justice can help to heal them.

 

 

[Bitch]

From the ESL, to Hillsborough, to Uefa Champions league.

 

Goals from the English clubs

[Eastside Urchin]

i understand that but 20 years is a long time.We have moved on as football fans,the way we police games,the way we watch football,the way we go to games everything about football is different now.Yes the police were barbaric at times back then but if you went to games regularly in the football league like i did in the 80's,its not excusable but you can understand why the police were so brutal at times.

I think we have to look at ourselves back then as a nation of football fans to actually realise that at many times the police were targets and fences like leppings lane were there because of the fans actions over the years.Obviously not every fan was a hooligan but when you witness scenes like luton v millwall in 85,they had to try something,sadly it backfired tragically

[Bitch]

Don't get me started... I won't mention police 'tactics'.

 

Blurry thugs need locking up. **** ******* **** ****** **** **** **** There! It's out. That's better.

 

Theo

[Lightweight]

Originally Posted By: Urchin Mentalist

I take it you read the thread properly lightweight tut tut

I'm sorry I don't know what you mean?

[Eastside Urchin]

Bitch,i know some people have bad experiences with police,they haven't always been my favourite but the majority are good people,its just the bad ones who let th many good ones down.

As a police force,i doubt very much that they would of been as heavy handed if they knew the consequences

[Bitch]

I was speaking generally Mental. Not just Hillsborough. Yes, lessons have been learnt. They have put their hands up over that, though no culpability through the law.

 

When i saw what happened at the Ivory Coast last month it was like history repeating itself.

 

I think when people see scenes like that before thier eyes it hits home. Emotions are bound to be high right now. But for the relatives it never goes away. It's easy to say 'it was so long ago' etc. But for them they live with it every day.

 

I've had enough of thinking about it now. I can move on. They can't though.

[Eastside Urchin]

i just think this could go on for another 20 years possibly more without the answers the families need,it is disturbing thinking about it,the pictures from tv and media are still fresh in the memory,it doesn't feel like 20 years,more like 8 or 9

[Bitch]

You are right. But, the families have not been given the right to answers. Unfortunately they cannot grieve properly when they cannot get justice.

 

When normal people come up against the judicial system it is a very frustrating and unfair process. It aggravates the innocent.

 

Even with answers they will not be happy, but it will go some way to allowing acceptance and some sort of finality.

[Eastside Urchin]

maybe bitch but it happens to alot of people,i would still like to know how my 85 year old granny who was as fit as a butchers dog,goes in to hospital for a hip replacement and dies of mrsa 2 weeks later.Unfortunatly we can keep banging on the doors to get the answers but there comes a time when you have to let go and accept you may not get the answers you want.

[Bitch]

Or, there comes a time when the doors you bang on wont budge an inch so you have to give up. That is the difference. It don't make it right.

[Eastside Urchin]

Not saying its right mate,just the way it is,joe public don't matter to the big wigs at whitehall!

[Bitch]

And there's the injustice. It's a viscious circle that will carry on if we let it.