Heybridge Game is OFF

[Keith.P]

I thought we were playing really well upto errr Halftime. The team from the start looked very lively and produced some very neat football. My only concern during the first half...ok my other concern was that we appeared to be playing too narrow leaving our left hand side exposed, but may have been a tactic. Cracking strike from Billy (again). But as i say the whole team looked very lively and hope Hunters injury is not serious.

 

As for the other concern...lights ! I will just say a thanks to the guy in the Heybridge bar who gave me a ticket stub. I was not looking for a refund but did not get a ticket stub on entering the ground. My own personal view is that it was extremely disappointing for all concerned, and i guess spare a thought also for the Heybridge fans who also (presumably) spent cash in the bar - They also will get nowt back.

 

But the real shame about it was simply that (and i really believe this) there was no way we were going to lose or even draw that game, so in reality i fear we are now dicing with 3 points.

 

Heads up folks, i think the simple gesture for Heybridge for both sets of fans would be to say the re-arranged game is at halfprice, or free for fans producing that green stub.

[GazzaBTFC]

Blue stub...Oh no...more confusion!!!

[Keith.P]

I've been given a dummy then !!!

[jl]

My stub's green.

 

Perhaps it's been out in the damp for too long?

[Cherry Blue]

To be fair the Chairmans blog on the website is spot on. well done Steve, some of our fans were being just as rude on wanting their money back! I just hope that we are not the next club to have floodlight failure!!!

[Rick the Dick]

There is nothing rude about wanting your money refunded, Cherry Blue.

 

Why does football think it's any different to any other service provider, where if you don't deliver you don't charge.

 

I'll answer that for you. For too long it's been hiding behind the fanatiscism of its supporters. "Customers" who, unlike any other, are prepared to put up with being mugged for fear of being labelled dis-loyal.

 

Attendences are falling everywhere, and as we move into the toughest economic climate we've seen for a long time they will probably drop further.

 

Swifts have an opportunity next Monday to show that they value both their own & visiting supporters by offering fans the choice of full refunds or free entry to the re-arranged fixture.

 

I sincerely hope they choose the right course, and in the process demonstrate that they are savvy enough to recognise that difficult times require a change of mind-set.

 

What's gone before is not necessarily going to be good enough for the future.

 

 

[Localfan]

Blimey Rick, I'm getting the feeling you are really upset about this!!!

 

Calm down matey, your supposed to enjoy football....

[GazzaBTFC]

Rick..where did anyone suggest anyone was being disloyal? I read a discussion and a fair airing of some points of view tempered, maybe (please note those that scan) with some unfair commentary towards our hosts on that afternoon but nothing suggesting disloyalty...

 

Chill geez...

 

And by the way, a good blog from Steve.

[Rick the Dick]

Gazza,

 

The "dis-loyal" comment was not directed at us in particular. I was trying to make the point (poorly, obviously) that football, as a business, has been in an almost unique position in terms of "customer care". It could get away with treating it's "customers" poorly, safe in the knowledge they'd keep coming back for more due to loyalty. All clouds have silver linings and possibly the current worries about attendance levels & the drop in disposable incomes may mean football, at all levels, will have to shape-up in this respect.

 

Steve's blog is fair but, much like you, tends to focus on the more extreme claims of "scum" & "stitch-up", which are easily (and rightfully) dismissed. The issue for me is "what happens next" and, as you can tell, I have firm views on that.

 

Just another point to throw in the mix; would Swifts have a chance of claiming recompence off of their electricity supplier?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JoeV93]

Shall we put this thread to bed now?

[Brightside Bloke]

Upda,

As the situation has yet to be resolved one way or the other i think it would be unfair to the posters on this thread to "put this thread to bed now"

[GazzaBTFC]

Rick, there are much worse examples of customer care in this country.

 

Considering that most clubs (if not all) at our level depend on volunteers to help out on the day, a delay as regards what decision a club should take in the event of refunds "a la" adandoned match, reasonable, IMO. As SK said, would we do anything different. As long as the end result is fair to all, I can't see what the problem is? There are not that many (if any) insitutions in this country (with the exception to the "High Street" but even that may get rarer) that will give an immediate refund.

 

I am sure the issue will be discussed and a sensible resolution found.

 

One thing I find myself trying to get to grips with is, how many of the people that have "kicked up the dust" over this will be at the rescheduled game. I suspect quite a few.

[The Town Crier]

Originally Posted By: Rick the Dick

.

Just another point to throw in the mix; would Swifts have a chance of claiming recompence off of their electricity supplier?

Thats the question I was pondering, so Rick, who is to blame for the floodlight failure in your opinion?
Is this not a key question when talking of, and laying claim of compensation.

The other question that has crossed my mind is: if cash compensation was paid, should that be half of the entry fee as we did enjoy a good 45 min's of entertainment?

Focused on "scum" & "stitch-up" I would disagree with that strongly Rick.

...but if you are referring to the comment of "nonsense" which was attributed to it being a cunning plan, are you thinking it was in some way a deliberate act which caused the floodlight failure.

I did want to get your views privately Rick, not because I disagreed or wanted to argue, I wanted them because I thought you made a valid point about customer satisfaction and would give me a clear and honest insight to your thought process.

This insight might help me in the future should a similar conundrum arise at Billericay.


The other view you relay is that in your opinion football clubs get away with treating it's "customers" poorly, safe in the knowledge they'd keep coming back for more due to loyalty.
[Edit;](as this statement is contained neatly within this thread, it is my assumption that you are referring to, or at least including, non league clubs)

This is an interesting insight to a fans thinking, it makes me think (rightly or wrongly)that you believe football clubs have spare cash floating around, and that they are not so reliant on supporters raising funds as they often claim?

[Simon BTFC]

Originally Posted By: The Town Crier

Originally Posted By: Rick the Dick

.

Just another point to throw in the mix; would Swifts have a chance of claiming recompence off of their electricity supplier?

Thats the question I was pondering, so Rick, who is to blame for the floodlight failure in your opinion?
Is this not a key question when talking of, and laying claim of compensation.

To my mind there are two potential answers to the question of responsibility. Either a) the fuse was faulty (by which I mean it failed before the recommended lifespan had been reached), in which case the responsibility lies with EOn for supplying it, or the fuse was old in which case the responsibility lies with Heybridge for failing to have it replaced in a timely fashion.

Either way, I very much doubt whether there is grounds for a claim-up, I can't believe that any non-league clubs have a contract in place with their suppliers to guarantee such things, and clearly the problem was on the Swifts premises rather than with the local grid.

[jl]

How about this for a suggestion?

 

During GMT hours the standard kick off time for "day" kick-offs is moved from the traditional 3.00 pm to a 1.30 or 2 pm kick off. I can see no reason why we need to start at 3 pm?

 

This means that every "day" game would be able to finish in natural light if the need arose and in these tough times would save non-league clubs a few quid on power bills.

 

I would introduce a stiffer penalty system to ensure that lights are maintained adequately for evening kick-offs.

 

As a post script I think RTD's ire needs to be equally directed to the League/FA after all it's presumably them that set the rules on abandonments and refunds etc

[JoeV93]

3PM is a nice time to kick off

[Adam.S]

Also floodlights would have to be used sometimes even if kick off times were changed to an earlier time because we still get the bad weather of dark clouds and rain.

 

But that would not be for every game, so money could still be saved and the money that could be saved for not using them during day games could be used for ensuring that floodlights work for evening games.

 

 

[Rick the Dick]

Sorry folks, but cant reply to the points directed @ me till late this evening.

 

TC, I'll be answering your PM then as well.

 

 

[Rick the Dick]

Apologies if this comes across a bit "Fostery", but there's lots of points to answer since my last post.

 

Quote:

Shall we put this thread to bed now?

Like BB says, Upda, this issue is far from resolved and I see no reason why this thread should be closed whilst there is still a chance we can influence the outcome. Admitedly, I appear to be in a minority of one, but fortunately have enough arrogance to keep fighting the fight safe in the knowledge that I'm right & everyone else is wrong

 

Quote:

Considering that most clubs (if not all) at our level depend on volunteers to help out on the day, a delay as regards what decision a club should take in the event of refunds "a la" adandoned match, reasonable, IMO. As SK said, would we do anything different. As long as the end result is fair to all, I can't see what the problem is? There are not that many (if any) insitutions in this country (with the exception to the "High Street" but even that may get rarer) that will give an immediate refund.

 

Gazza, I neither asked for, or expected, an immidiate cash refund at the time, and accept your reasons as to why this would not be possible. I also require an end result that is "fair to all", but appear to be the only one declaring an opinion as to what that should be (Note the word "should". That's different to the minimum necessary under the rules). This suprises me. I'd have expected a more vehement support of travelling fans who may end up out of pocket, but I'm still learning.

 

Quote:

The other question that has crossed my mind is: if cash compensation was paid, should that be half of the entry fee as we did enjoy a good 45 min's of entertainment?

 

TC, I paid to see a match, with a result at the end of it. I didn't get that. Therefore I should have the option of getting my money refunded (not "compensated"), or free admission to the re-arranged game.

 

Quote:

Focused on "scum" & "stitch-up" I would disagree with that strongly Rick. ...but if you are referring to the comment of "nonsense" which was attributed to it being a cunning plan, are you thinking it was in some way a deliberate act which caused the floodlight failure.

 

Apologies for being unclear on this point, TC. I unequivically do not believe there was anything suspicious or underhand about the abandonment. My only point in this whole thread is that there is definately a moral obligation on Swifts to offer a choice of refunds or free admission to the re-attanged fixture for supporters of both teams who have already paid admission to the abandoned game. I also think the league rules should be changed to make this mandatory.

 

Quote:

I did want to get your views privately Rick, not because I disagreed or wanted to argue, I wanted them because I thought you made a valid point about customer satisfaction and would give me a clear and honest insight to your thought process.

This insight might help me in the future should a similar conundrum arise at Billericay.

 

Check your P.M.'s. I was unable to answer you in full until now.

 

Quote:

The other view you relay is that in your opinion football clubs get away with treating it's "customers" poorly, safe in the knowledge they'd keep coming back for more due to loyalty.

[Edit;](as this statement is contained neatly within this thread, it is my assumption that you are referring to, or at least including, non league clubs)

 

This is an interesting insight to a fans thinking, it makes me think (rightly or wrongly)that you believe football clubs have spare cash floating around, and that they are not so reliant on supporters raising funds as they often claim?

 

If no refunds, or (heaven forbid) free admission is offered by Swifts in this instance you will have a curent example of a Non-league club treating its customers poorly. Gazza stated earlier that exactly that had already occured at Folkestone & Walton, so there's a couple of historic examples. Do/did these situations need "spare cash floating around" to be resolved in the "customers" interest. Or did they just need a bit more of a sympathetic attitude towards the paying public.

 

If you want to get an "insight into a fans thinking" consider this. I will willingly throw my change into a bucket on the bar. I will willingly buy the replica shirt, attend functions in the club house, buy 50/50 tickets etc.. But if I ever get the feeling that I'm being mugged it's a complete "turn off". Maybe I'm unusual; an extreme example. I certainly don't seem to have much support on here. But I suspect that over the next 12 months you may find more & more people become a little more careful about what they do with their money.

 

I re-discovered 'ricay 4 or 5 years ago & over that time my support has grown to the extent that I attend the majority of home games and around a third of the away fixtures. I'd say I'm a typical example of the sort of new fan that the club needs to reach out to and encourage. At the moment I'm feeling pretty disillusioned.

 

 

 

 

[GazzaBTFC]

Good post Rick. Well considered and well presented. I'm not going to use the "quote" system because it will take me all day but I will refer to a couple of points.

 

Firstly, influence. If you want to influence the outcome of what you consider an unfair situation with Heybridge (in this case), take it up with Heybridge. The decision to call of the game actually rests with the ref because he didn't want to wait anymore but our cash still rests in the "coffers" of the club.

 

Secondly, all of us are in the same "boat". We don't know what will happen regarding the re scheduled match but it is usual to offer free or half price entry but the decision still rests with Heybridge. I will stress that under the FA / Ryman League rules, Heybridge are well within the rules not to offer any reduction in price for the re scheduled game. What decision they make, should they "work" outside the rules, will be their good faith. I am under the impression that when the re schduled fixture is discussed, our club will also discuss the question of re addmission to the ground with Heybridge (if a decision hasn't been made before then). If Heybridge do not offer any kind of compensation as regards re admission, then we have the opportunity to complain. At present no decision has been made (to my knowledge). I fully accept that people are / were upset and an out pouring of "ire" (good word jl) was inevitable but most of us (sorry if I am being presumptuous here) have calmed down and we're waiting to see what happens. Are we any less concerned about the outcome? No. Will we forget about the game and the flood light faliure? No (Supporters of rival clubs rarely forget incidents like this, especially when the rivals are local - God forbid what the message board would be like if it happened at Melbourne Park or Canvey Island!!!). So we wait. That may not be the ideal situation for those who find themselves in difficult times but as the admission has been accounted for and freely paid, they only lose (as do we all) if Heybridge refuse to be generous and either give free admission or a discount. IMO, I doubt that will happen.

 

Thirdly, if the situation arises that there are people that cannot make the game, then the question of refund comes to the fore. This is a matter for the punter and Heybridge. Again, I would think that our club would raise that question when discussing the new fixture and an announcement made by both clubs(?) so that everyone is clear concerning the decision.

 

Fourth point - Perhaps the reason that people have not been more vehement maybe because there are a lot more "die hard" (your words) supporters and are willing to let the dust settle and a decision made before they do? We pay our admission for 90 minutes of football as well admission to a football ground to enjoy the facilities. It may be that the same attitide concerning the admission / result applies. Very rarely do I hear supporters ask for their money back when we have played poorly and lost (rarely but it does happen). Maybe it's a similar mentality...I can only surmise because even as the BTSA Chairman, I do not possess complete inter connection with the "collective" (sorry if this comes over as flippant - I am trying to put a bit of light into the piece).

 

Point Five (God, this goes on)- No one questioned your support of the club and the situation last Saturday is nothing to do with Billericay Town FC. I know how that sounds but that is a fact. We sympathise (possibly not the right word...) with Heybridge because we would not want the same to happen to us. We are not just a stand alone club in Non League football, we are part of a community...yes there are some clubs we may not get on as well as maybe we could or should and vice versa but we have "friends" or at least acquaintances whom have the same hopes, wishes, fears and worries as we do for our club. The fact remains though, last Saturday was on Heybridges turf.

 

Last point - the best club that I have experienced in a similar situation was Harlow (okay, the floddlights didn't fail - it was snowing). the ref abandoned the game 10 minutes into the 2nd half and we were told if we keep our tickets we get in for free when the fixture is rescheduled. Clear instructions from the PA. Different clubs have different ways in dealing with the situation and perhaps, when the World is falling all around you and you up to your ar*e in bullets (or nowty away supporters demanding a refund), messages and instructions may get a little "mixed" up (if there were any). The people that were in the middle of it were volunteers and were doing their best. I have been in similar situations even when dealing with home supporters (why the rope was across the players dining area before the Hendon match is still a mystery...to me and others but hey, I should know these things because not knowing is a faliure and after all, I work for the club). Try as you might, you smile and give the best answer you can ("I don't know" usually sparks a whole swathe of "Well you should know..." questions and comments). We all try to do our best for our respective clubs and it isn't a deliberate act of bloody mindedness when we don't. Sometimes, we just don't know the answer (shocking I know).

 

I hope I have been considered in my response. I fully appreciate that I may have "waffled" and touched on some points not raised in your post Rick but it's New Years Eve....

 

Happy New Year to everyone